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ATI R300 rumours
- Thread starter flexy
- Start date
NFS4
No Lifer
<< Geforce4 Killer ! >>
ROTF, it's always the same thing with ATI😀
1) Rx00 is released.
2) The drivers are buggy as hell (lockups, texture flashing, game incompatibilities, etc.)
3) Performance is 85% of what the leading NVIDIA card is
4) ATI releases less buggy drivers twice a month to alleviate the problems
5) 3 - 4 months later, the "GeForce Killer" finally gets to that level with some better drivers, but it doesn't really beat the NVIDIA card. It just matches it, falls a little bit above or below in benches.
6) Shake and stirr for R(x+1)00
Now THAT is your typical ATI card release
lol nice one NFS4.. we'll have to see if that's the way it ends up what with the UNIFIED DRIVERS and all..
btw, I just have to say that I don't trust the Inquirer.. that and the last time ATi released a card which supported DX8 (the Radeon) it was ousted by the GF3 due to the XBox.
btw, I just have to say that I don't trust the Inquirer.. that and the last time ATi released a card which supported DX8 (the Radeon) it was ousted by the GF3 due to the XBox.
GTaudiophile
Lifer
Well, just maybe ATi learned its lesson after the R8500 release fiasco. I mean, how bad is the Radeon 8500DV?
They better do something good, because even though I just got a Radeon 7500, it wouldn't have been hard to convince me to wait for NV25. Once nVidia's DVD-decoding abilities are as good as ATi's, I'm going back to nVidia.
They better do something good, because even though I just got a Radeon 7500, it wouldn't have been hard to convince me to wait for NV25. Once nVidia's DVD-decoding abilities are as good as ATi's, I'm going back to nVidia.
StormRider
Diamond Member
<< Once nVidia's DVD-decoding abilities are as good as ATi's, I'm going back to nVidia.
>>
That's the main reason why I generally stick with ATI -- I think their DVD capabilities are a notch better than nVidia's offerings. But I've heard that the Geforce4 will have pretty much full hardware decoding.
mchammer187
Diamond Member
i am very satisfied with my radeon 8500
i only used the 3286 drivers though since i ordered october and got it in dec
but for $204 i couldnt be happier
play mostly everything with (3x or 4x)AA and highest quality TAP @ 1024x768
ghost recon is one exception though 🙁 good thing i dont really play it though
i only used the 3286 drivers though since i ordered october and got it in dec
but for $204 i couldnt be happier
play mostly everything with (3x or 4x)AA and highest quality TAP @ 1024x768
ghost recon is one exception though 🙁 good thing i dont really play it though
flexy
Diamond Member
<< Thats what they call the last card too.. geforce 3 killer... but when will it actually come out ? u know since nvidia announce their gf4, by the time the ati r300 comes out.. it might be time for nvidia to announce geforce 5... >>
I dont know what you're talking about..or do you assume that the term 'geforce 3 killer' wont be right for the ATI8500 ?
If you seriously think that's over exaggerated, then you maybe should begin reading h/w related news, what's really going on.
The list of manufacturers Ati wins over at their site grows extremely fast, recently Hercules, the biggest manufacturer/retailer of cards in Europe joined ATI, the list grows longer and longer.
If anyone really is a loser right now then its HANDS DOWN nvidia !!!!
The rad8500 (even with its buggy drivers and everything without ANY doubt is a gf3 killer, you just have to go to websites (and i mean websites with MAINLY NV people on them earlier..eg rivastatiob..and read some surveys or read in the forums !)...the majority of people plans to get Radeon8500 over any new Geforce, and honestly i havent seen ANYONE cheering over the supposed gf4 coming out..instead i have seen dissapointment and long faces regarding clock speeds etc.
(I may err...i am hesitant because the specs either of R300 NOR gf4 are not really known yet)
The rad8500 is a total success (look at big game developer companies, and how many start to work with/support ATI now).
Gigabyte, FIC, Powercolor (once called themselves 'nvidia loyalists' 🙂, Guillemot, Hercules...there are also rumours about deals ATI <-> PowerVR, all joined ATI.
Since i am convinced that the rad8500 is (and was) a total success over the gf3 (its even CHEAPER) i have NO reason to believe that statements on some's side like "geforce 4 killer" etc. may be wrong....facts lead to believe me it very well might be the case !
Edit:
[from the Inquirer]
ATI is positioning SnoBIT 2002 at Hangover, Germany, as the venue for some big introductions including the R300, the INQUIRER learns.
It's still "Hannover", not "Hangover" <- 🙂
And..what the hell is SnoBit ? CeBit is suppose....
GTaudiophile
Lifer
Kinda OT: I think ATi's new "Imageon 100" is a good move too, moving into new markets. I bet it caught nVidia by surprise. Anyone else want to bet that in 12 months, every hand-held device will be powered by a ATi processor? I bet ATi will capture the hand-held market like they did the laptop market.
who ever said it was a GF3 killer?
that being said, it IS doing awefully good with the latest drivers..
btw, I don't know about you, but the fact that they've actually VISIBLY improved their driver developement (ie, unified drivers) practice, says something to me about this card..
what you don't get full performance out of the R300 when it's released? well we never saw full performance out of the GF3 when it was released either did we? it took a full 6 months for them to release the Detonator 4 series.
I say shut your trap when it comes to drivers and ATi for the moment. they're doing a great job fixing stuff (Direct X games I think got a boost in the last unified drivers).
how many months has it been? 3? 4??
btw, I have yet to see an update with the latest drivers (released January 5th).
that being said, it IS doing awefully good with the latest drivers..
btw, I don't know about you, but the fact that they've actually VISIBLY improved their driver developement (ie, unified drivers) practice, says something to me about this card..
what you don't get full performance out of the R300 when it's released? well we never saw full performance out of the GF3 when it was released either did we? it took a full 6 months for them to release the Detonator 4 series.
I say shut your trap when it comes to drivers and ATi for the moment. they're doing a great job fixing stuff (Direct X games I think got a boost in the last unified drivers).
how many months has it been? 3? 4??
btw, I have yet to see an update with the latest drivers (released January 5th).
KrispyKremer
Senior member
Yes, this is a generalization, but if you're a hardcore gamer, you're going to go with Nvidia. If you want to do more than game, like watch tv/dvd and do video capture, you'll go ATI. ATI is more of a "video" card while Nvidia is more a "gaming" card.
Personally, instead of choosing to buy the last 3 Nvidia cards, I'd rather stick with the video card I have now (a year old) and pick up a console... and still come out ahead from the money spent.
Personally, instead of choosing to buy the last 3 Nvidia cards, I'd rather stick with the video card I have now (a year old) and pick up a console... and still come out ahead from the money spent.
I mean, how bad is the Radeon 8500DV?
It has ZERO support for Win98/Win98SE...
Gigabyte, FIC, Powercolor (once called themselves 'nvidia loyalists' , Guillemot, Hercules...there are also rumours about deals ATI <-> PowerVR, all joined ATI.
Flexy, get the facts straight first. Every manufacturer you listed above has been long time buddies of ATi, except for Gigabyte and Hercules. I understand you're excited about ATi's recent successes, but I think you're getting too riled up about ATi's recent announcements regarding Gigabyte and Hercules. Now that that?s straightened out?
Any half-wit who has followed Nvidia/Hercules knew their relationship was not great at all, at least not compared to MSI, ASUS, Leadtek, etc. Seeing Hercules buddying up with ATi is NOT surprising at all. IMO, Gigabyte was the real blow to Nvidia, although I'm not sure why Gigabyte wants in with ATi since ASUS, MSI, et al are married to Nvidia (and likely they have good reasons to).
That said, what?s the big deal here. ATi now has two big name companies bundling their video chipsets (Gigabyte, Hercules) and you?re wetting your pants? Nvidia has every top-class manufacturer in the known universe on their side, including ASUS, MSI, Leadtek, Gainward, you name it, Nvidia has them as a partner. All ATi has is a Gigabyte, Hercules and a bunch of no names.
As for their respective products, the Radeon 8500 is certainly a respectable card, even though it?s a little slower than a Ti500. The fact that it took ATi a month to release drivers that finally made it perform better than a Ti200 is totally ridiculous. What?s the deal here, ATi?s driver team can?t release drivers worth a damn at launch, with no support for Smoothvision, operating at Ti500 levels, and buggy in extremely popular games like Max Payne and Unreal Tournament. For god sakes, who would want to deal with a product like that, I?d rather buy a $150 GeF3 Ti200 and have piece of mind.
It has ZERO support for Win98/Win98SE...
Gigabyte, FIC, Powercolor (once called themselves 'nvidia loyalists' , Guillemot, Hercules...there are also rumours about deals ATI <-> PowerVR, all joined ATI.
Flexy, get the facts straight first. Every manufacturer you listed above has been long time buddies of ATi, except for Gigabyte and Hercules. I understand you're excited about ATi's recent successes, but I think you're getting too riled up about ATi's recent announcements regarding Gigabyte and Hercules. Now that that?s straightened out?
Any half-wit who has followed Nvidia/Hercules knew their relationship was not great at all, at least not compared to MSI, ASUS, Leadtek, etc. Seeing Hercules buddying up with ATi is NOT surprising at all. IMO, Gigabyte was the real blow to Nvidia, although I'm not sure why Gigabyte wants in with ATi since ASUS, MSI, et al are married to Nvidia (and likely they have good reasons to).
That said, what?s the big deal here. ATi now has two big name companies bundling their video chipsets (Gigabyte, Hercules) and you?re wetting your pants? Nvidia has every top-class manufacturer in the known universe on their side, including ASUS, MSI, Leadtek, Gainward, you name it, Nvidia has them as a partner. All ATi has is a Gigabyte, Hercules and a bunch of no names.
As for their respective products, the Radeon 8500 is certainly a respectable card, even though it?s a little slower than a Ti500. The fact that it took ATi a month to release drivers that finally made it perform better than a Ti200 is totally ridiculous. What?s the deal here, ATi?s driver team can?t release drivers worth a damn at launch, with no support for Smoothvision, operating at Ti500 levels, and buggy in extremely popular games like Max Payne and Unreal Tournament. For god sakes, who would want to deal with a product like that, I?d rather buy a $150 GeF3 Ti200 and have piece of mind.
Just a few notes on the 8500DV -
Many people have reported success under 98 with this card. I'm not sure exactly how, but I don't use 98.
Although it is clocked 230/190 by default, I run 260/210 with 100% stability. The minimal performance loss is more than compensated by the incredible array of VIVO features this card offers. And the remote is kick-ass 😀
Drivers are still a bit of a thorn in the side; They certainly are not 100%. That said, I haven't had any major issues with a wide variety of titles. YMMV.
R300 looks technically superior to NV25, on paper. It remains to be seen whether ATi can deliver a driver which actually extracts the performance, while allowing full, stable use of the features it supports. We'll see.
Many people have reported success under 98 with this card. I'm not sure exactly how, but I don't use 98.
Although it is clocked 230/190 by default, I run 260/210 with 100% stability. The minimal performance loss is more than compensated by the incredible array of VIVO features this card offers. And the remote is kick-ass 😀
Drivers are still a bit of a thorn in the side; They certainly are not 100%. That said, I haven't had any major issues with a wide variety of titles. YMMV.
R300 looks technically superior to NV25, on paper. It remains to be seen whether ATi can deliver a driver which actually extracts the performance, while allowing full, stable use of the features it supports. We'll see.
flexy
Diamond Member
<<
ATi?s driver team can?t release drivers worth a damn at launch, with no support for Smoothvision, operating at Ti500 levels, and buggy in extremely popular games like Max Payne and Unreal Tournament. For god sakes, who would want to deal with a product like that, I?d rather buy a $150 GeF3 Ti200 and have piece of mind. >>
To answer your question: Geeks maybe who want to play around with their drivers, edit their registries manually, risk some crashes..but know they have 'the latest' ? 🙂
J/K...but actually it may not be totally wrong ...
As it concerns ATI drivers...you can look at two sides here...the one side is the side of the 'official driver' releases - where without any doubt it looks very bad, drivers have MAJOR bugs and/or mandatory features are not supported.
The other side is the side of the leaked betas (here again: The "geek stuff", because you have to know where to look etc.)...where they actually DID a good job....and there's no question that the current leaked betas are a huge improvement in IQ and stability/game issues... these people may have some strange marketing strategists sitting around...working drivers are released AFTER the hardware is out...etc... but nevertheless something SEEMS to happen in their driver development team.... and it is VERY unlikely that every new driver to be released (in the future) gets worse/slower than the one before 🙂
(In this sense there may be hope, the recent 9008 are 'quite good'...to say it this way...)
And....the "statistics" (surveys on sites, forums etc.) obviously show that many people "want to buy such a card"....many people just DO, pricing is one factor here too of course ! ("Well...do get this gf3ti200 or the radeon ?" etc. etc...)
Btw...it would not be totally FAIR to refer to the very first driver releases ("Smoothvision not working") [and i think Max Payne runs flawlessly now, too] - i wouldn't refer back to pre-detonator drivers if i want to compare a NV card and a ATI card..this really sounds a bit far fetched 🙂
One thing I have to say is this analysis:
1) The Radeon 8500 already costs significantly less than any nVidia GF3 card, save for the Ti200.
2) The next Radeon cards are touted as (most likely being) faster and cheaper than the nVidia near-equals.
3) ATI has a good track record for being cheaper than nVidia at near-equal speeds.
4) The next Radeon part will drive the already decenly-priced and very fast R-8500 down even lower.
That's the one I like. 😉 Cheap radeon 8500's for all!
1) The Radeon 8500 already costs significantly less than any nVidia GF3 card, save for the Ti200.
2) The next Radeon cards are touted as (most likely being) faster and cheaper than the nVidia near-equals.
3) ATI has a good track record for being cheaper than nVidia at near-equal speeds.
4) The next Radeon part will drive the already decenly-priced and very fast R-8500 down even lower.
That's the one I like. 😉 Cheap radeon 8500's for all!
R300 is not going to be a Geforce4 killer. Stiff competition has made the days of "killer" video cards long extinct. The industry has not seen a killer video card since the Voodoo2 which absolutely destroyed everything in the field at everything and then added injury to insult with SLI. If you think 240fps vs 220fps in QuakeIII makes a card dominant you're entitled to that opinion, but until I see a card come along and beat everything in the current generation by 75% to 100% in everything, the term killer card will be shallow and empty in my book. The likelihood of this happening are pretty much slim and none, and if it does happen, it will be from an upstart company not one of the established players.
The only press release I've seen about the ATI-Hercules deal was that the agreement was limited to the European market. I don't see why anyone in North America would care about that. You see quite a few unusual pairings oversees that you would never see here.
The only press release I've seen about the ATI-Hercules deal was that the agreement was limited to the European market. I don't see why anyone in North America would care about that. You see quite a few unusual pairings oversees that you would never see here.
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