ATi PWNS nVidia, nVidia PWNS ATi...I PWN you all...

[Pr0d1gy]

Considering the amount of money you guys spend on these cards I find it laughable you have so much time to spend arguing about which is better. Let's just consider some undeniable facts:

1) It is extremely rare to find a nVidia & ATi card priced the same. For instance the X800XL (pci-e) is priced around $250-300 while it's main competitor is priced from $320-375 at most places (6800gt pci-e).

2) No one card PWNS all others anymore, at least not in this generation. You have to weigh some wants to decide which is better for you: Do you plan on going with an SLi setup at some point down the road? Do you want to play a lot of Doom3? Do you want to get the best bang for the buck & save some money? Do you like using AA & AF on your games? Well, unfortunately, these can't all be found in one card despite what any fanboys will try to tell you.

3) This is the most undeniable fact of all: don't read forum discussions about the cards & take them to heart. What you will invariably find if you do is that people will cite unreliable sources for rediculous benches, try to discredit the respectable sources, and altogether say anything to make what they said the correct opinion.


I haven't haunted the video forum much in my days here, but having spent the past few days reading these threads has made me come to understand why.

Guess what folks, ATi makes terrific cards & nVidia does too. So it all basically comes down to determining your needs, so here is a quick checklist of reasons to buy for each company's cards in the CURRENT generation:

nVidia:
if you play a lot of Doom3
if you plan on playing a lot of Quake 4 (although ATi may have a 3.0shader card by then)
if you plan on going SLi soon (as ATi will have their own version out before long)
if you like nVidia (ahem, fanboy)

ATi:
if you play a lot of Half-Life2 or Madden2005
if you like using AA & AF on your video card
if you're going to wait for the next generation cards (r520, g70,,,if so, wtf are you still reading this for? LoL)
if you like ATi (again, fanboy)

I hope this helps people who have been reading the forest of misinformation that is passed around about these cards. While this is an oversimplification on the subject, I am not getting paid for this so I'm out. May the Schwartz be with you.

 

[SneakyStuff]

Let's put all things above asaide, now factor in user loyalty, no use in trying to change someone's mind when it's already made up. Good effort tho

edit: BTW I use nVidia and ATI cards so boo jah

 

[SynthDude2001]

I bet this thread will be the next one that the flamewar boys will take over, unfortunately.

 

[housecat]

Originally posted by: SynthDude2001
I bet this thread will be the next one that the flamewar boys will take over, unfortunately.

Coming from an ATOT troll? OK.

 

[jazzboy]

I agree I'm getting fed up with all this arguing. Why can't everyone just accept that a 6800GT smokes an X850 XT in Half-Life 2

Anyway really from looking at all the reviews I can honestly say that there really isn't that much difference between ATI and Nvidia currently. When I get a nice amount of money and I feel like getting a proper gaming card (as opposed to my 5200nu!) I will just go for whatever is a good deal. ie. if im looking for a high end nv/ati card an i suddenly come across a 6800gt for £150 i'll get that-likewise with a x800xl. If i see two competing cards for the same price i'll just roll a die to pick.

And even when your talking about, say HL2 which, obviously is a pro-ATI game, at 1600x1200 the difference between an x850xtpe and a 6800u is a one-notch adjustment on the AA settings which in my view certainly isn't much. i.e. if i remeber rightly (sorry if I am wrong) a 6800u at 1600x1200 2xaa/16xaf should give similar fps to an x850xtpe at 4xaa/16xaf.

 

[coomar]

ati is good for madden, is that all ea games or ea sports games or madden in particular?

 

[imported_Kensai]

SLI > Anything else. (Cost too)

 

[Insomniak]

I'm better than everything.

 

[rise]

fuggit nv rules all

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Originally posted by: coomar
ati is good for madden, is that all ea games or ea sports games or madden in particular?

I will try to find you the review I read, it had screenshots. BBIAF.

OK, it's the HardOCP review of the X800XL. It does a Madden comparison screenshot of the 6800gt & X800XL on top of each other (click on the small picture in the bottom of the page of the link).

HardOCP's X800XL review with Madden screenshot comparison. Look at the yardlines, shoulderpads, etc.

 

[Avalon]

I use both. I've got a couple radeon 9500s, a couple geforce 6600s, and a geforce 6800. Both companies rock.

 

[Kalessian]

I don't hesitate to recommend ATi if it's the better performance for the pricepoint, but I will only use nVidia for the time being.

Linux + nVidia = for me

 

[trinibwoy]

Originally posted by: Pr0d1gy
HardOCP's X800XL review with Madden screenshot comparison. Look at the yardlines, shoulderpads, etc.

Are you talking about performance or IQ cause those shots are 4xAA on the XL vs 2xAA on the GT.

 

[Extraordinary Cow]

damn hell, it's whichever bloody well suits your needs. look at benchmarks etc. and make a decision for yourself. if one card goes wrong for you, stick to the other. the end!

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Originally posted by: trinibwoy

Originally posted by: Pr0d1gy
HardOCP's X800XL review with Madden screenshot comparison. Look at the yardlines, shoulderpads, etc.

Are you talking about performance or IQ cause those shots are 4xAA on the XL vs 2xAA on the GT.

Uh yeah, since you obviously read the review you see that they couldn't run them at the same AA & AF and get consistent frames from the 6800gt. As most of the world is well aware, the nVidia cards struggle with AA & AF in comparison, thus to have them run at similar FPS, the reviewers will turn down the AA & AF of the nVidia cards to make all things equal.

Here is the somewhat useless apples to apples comparison from the same review.

Now with that out of the way, what I was asked was is ATi really better for Madden. The answer is yes if you look at it logically. In order to run at the same specs, the nVidia card loses frames to the ATi & thus the reviewer is forced to turn down the "extras" on the 6800gt in order to have both cards running at similar frames per second (frames, FPS). Here is the exact quote:

"In Madden NFL 2005 we were able to play at 1600x1200 with 4XAA and 16XAF on the ATI Radeon X800XL and the Radeon X800Pro. You can see that performance was slightly better on the X800XL. The GeForce 6800GT played great at 1600x1200 2XAA/8XAF, and the BFGTech GeForce 6800OC at a resolution below that. Certainly the X800XL is a better card at this $300 price level in this game."

Now, would the 6800gt look as good as the X800XL if it was turned up to 4xAA & 16xAF like the x800 cards were? It depends on the game again, so possibly. Still, you would take a massive FPS hit in doing this with the 6800gt as evidenced by the fact he had to cut both AA & AF in half to allow the 6800gt to keep up with the X800XL in MADDEN 2005. I feel I have spent enough time on this subject & thoroughly answered your concern & explained your misinformation to anyone who might read this...and I'm still not getting paid for this so I'm out.

On another note, here is a screen of Doom3 from both cards. Notice the 6800gt looks as good or better than the X800XL with no AA turned on (compared to X800XL's 2xAA).

Doom3 screen to please the nVidia fanboys.

-Please try not to mislead people on this thread, thanks. BTW, I have a 6600gt so I am in no way an ATi fanboy...please don't start that stuff here.

 

[nitromullet]

Linux + nVidia = for me

I used to be like that too, and the better Linux support from nVidia was a deciding factor many times. I got rid of a 9700 Pro to "upgrade" to an FX 5900 because combining Linux, an nForce2 mobo, and a 9700 Pro was not a wining combination. Now, I use Windows for gaming and OSX on my PowerBook for my *nix needs. OSX has done what a gazillion open source devs have not been able to do yet: make a *nix OS that doesn't suck for the desktop, albiet at a cost. Anyway, back on topic, now that I don't have to worry about building a gaming system with Linux compatible hardware as well, I will look at ATi more seriously in the future.

Considering the amount of money you guys spend on these cards I find it laughable you have so much time to spend arguing about which is better.

The trick is to find a job that pays well and affords you a bit if AT forum time so you can play games when you aren't at work.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

The trick is to find a job that pays well and affords you a bit if AT forum time so you can play games when you aren't at work.

Call me wierd but I try to get work done when I am at work? No offense, I'm sure most people share your view, but I am very focused when at work on getting things done.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Pr0d1gy

Originally posted by: trinibwoy

Originally posted by: Pr0d1gy
HardOCP's X800XL review with Madden screenshot comparison. Look at the yardlines, shoulderpads, etc.

Are you talking about performance or IQ cause those shots are 4xAA on the XL vs 2xAA on the GT.

Uh yeah, since you obviously read the review you see that they couldn't run them at the same AA & AF and get consistent frames from the 6800gt. As most of the world is well aware, the nVidia cards struggle with AA & AF in comparison, thus to have them run at similar FPS, the reviewers will turn down the AA & AF of the nVidia cards to make all things equal.

Here is the somewhat useless apples to apples comparison from the same review.

Now with that out of the way, what I was asked was is ATi really better for Madden. The answer is yes if you look at it logically. In order to run at the same specs, the nVidia card loses frames to the ATi & thus the reviewer is forced to turn down the "extras" on the 6800gt in order to have both cards running at similar frames per second (frames, FPS). Here is the exact quote:

"In Madden NFL 2005 we were able to play at 1600x1200 with 4XAA and 16XAF on the ATI Radeon X800XL and the Radeon X800Pro. You can see that performance was slightly better on the X800XL. The GeForce 6800GT played great at 1600x1200 2XAA/8XAF, and the BFGTech GeForce 6800OC at a resolution below that. Certainly the X800XL is a better card at this $300 price level in this game."

Now, would the 6800gt look as good as the X800XL if it was turned up to 4xAA & 16xAF like the x800 cards were? It depends on the game again, so possibly. Still, you would take a massive FPS hit in doing this with the 6800gt as evidenced by the fact he had to cut both AA & AF in half to allow the 6800gt to keep up with the X800XL in MADDEN 2005. I feel I have spent enough time on this subject & thoroughly answered your concern & explained your misinformation to anyone who might read this...and I'm still not getting paid for this so I'm out.

On another note, here is a screen of Doom3 from both cards. Notice the 6800gt looks as good or better than the X800XL with no AA turned on (compared to X800XL's 2xAA).

Doom3 screen to please the nVidia fanboys.

-Please try not to mislead people on this thread, thanks. BTW, I have a 6600gt so I am in no way an ATi fanboy...please don't start that stuff here.

No offense but... What the hell are you talking about?

While Nvidia cards have a slight edge in AA they lose with AF. THis is because Nvidia's architecture, when using AF, takes up an ALU (Arithmetic Logic Unit) for calculations. It takes it away from whatever else it was doing, thereby incurring a larger performance hit.

IIRC while Nvidia has a slight edge in AA, ATI and Nvidia both use Rotated Grid method.

Frankly i dont believe a word quoted there. I HIGHLY doubt that you cannot get the 6800GT to play consistently with 2x/8x. Not even in HL2 the game that ATI holds the greatest lead does the 6800GT have too much trouble at that resolution. THe only card that should stumble at that resolution is the 6800OC. The X800Pro is clocked high enough to somewhat compensate for the 4 missing pipelines.

-Kevin

 

[coomar]

Originally posted by: Pr0d1gy

Originally posted by: coomar
ati is good for madden, is that all ea games or ea sports games or madden in particular?

I will try to find you the review I read, it had screenshots. BBIAF.

OK, it's the HardOCP review of the X800XL. It does a Madden comparison screenshot of the 6800gt & X800XL on top of each other (click on the small picture in the bottom of the page of the link).

HardOCP's X800XL review with Madden screenshot comparison. Look at the yardlines, shoulderpads, etc.

thanks for the links

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Originally posted by: coomar

Originally posted by: Pr0d1gy

Originally posted by: coomar
ati is good for madden, is that all ea games or ea sports games or madden in particular?

I will try to find you the review I read, it had screenshots. BBIAF.

OK, it's the HardOCP review of the X800XL. It does a Madden comparison screenshot of the 6800gt & X800XL on top of each other (click on the small picture in the bottom of the page of the link).

HardOCP's X800XL review with Madden screenshot comparison. Look at the yardlines, shoulderpads, etc.

thanks for the links

No problem. All the nVidia fanboys are going to jump me now although I said I own an ATi because they don't like what every review you'll ever see says. Anyways, I hope it helps you out & keep in mind...THIS ONLY applies to the current cards (x800, x850, 6800 cards) as all of this could easily change in the next generation of cards.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

No offense but... What the hell are you talking about?

While Nvidia cards have a slight edge in AA they lose with AF. THis is because Nvidia's architecture, when using AF, takes up an ALU (Arithmetic Logic Unit) for calculations. It takes it away from whatever else it was doing, thereby incurring a larger performance hit.

IIRC while Nvidia has a slight edge in AA, ATI and Nvidia both use Rotated Grid method.

Frankly i dont believe a word quoted there. I HIGHLY doubt that you cannot get the 6800GT to play consistently with 2x/8x. Not even in HL2 the game that ATI holds the greatest lead does the 6800GT have too much trouble at that resolution. THe only card that should stumble at that resolution is the 6800OC. The X800Pro is clocked high enough to somewhat compensate for the 4 missing pipelines.

-Kevin

Well Kevin, go argue with the HardOCP reviewer since he gets paid to do this. I could care less what you believe because the fact is you always argue with everyone & I'm not interested.

 

[hans030390]

um....moo?

personally, i don't care.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Originally posted by: hans030390
um....moo?

personally, i don't care.

Yeah basically. Unfortunately I can't even answer a question without some lame fanboy attacking what I'm saying. Anyways, the review speaks for itself. The Doom3 screens show that having AA & AF at different setting do not determine which card will look better, and the X800XL looks so much better in Madden it isn't funny. Meanwhile the 6800gt looks better in Doom3 with lower settings than the X800XL & gets better average frames per second.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Pr0d1gy

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

No offense but... What the hell are you talking about?

While Nvidia cards have a slight edge in AA they lose with AF. THis is because Nvidia's architecture, when using AF, takes up an ALU (Arithmetic Logic Unit) for calculations. It takes it away from whatever else it was doing, thereby incurring a larger performance hit.

IIRC while Nvidia has a slight edge in AA, ATI and Nvidia both use Rotated Grid method.

Frankly i dont believe a word quoted there. I HIGHLY doubt that you cannot get the 6800GT to play consistently with 2x/8x. Not even in HL2 the game that ATI holds the greatest lead does the 6800GT have too much trouble at that resolution. THe only card that should stumble at that resolution is the 6800OC. The X800Pro is clocked high enough to somewhat compensate for the 4 missing pipelines.

-Kevin

Well Kevin, go argue with the HardOCP reviewer since he gets paid to do this. I could care less what you believe because the fact is you always argue with everyone & I'm not interested.

This is my first post in this thread. How do i argue with everyone???

Hey gets paid to do this ... didn't know that any of these reviewers got a salary for this.

How can you simply ignore my argument. I explained all my reasons, and i even did a direct comparison of the cards. Are you lazy or can you not come up with a decent counter argument? (Believe me i understand the lazy part )

-Kevin

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: Pr0d1gy

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

No offense but... What the hell are you talking about?

While Nvidia cards have a slight edge in AA they lose with AF. THis is because Nvidia's architecture, when using AF, takes up an ALU (Arithmetic Logic Unit) for calculations. It takes it away from whatever else it was doing, thereby incurring a larger performance hit.

IIRC while Nvidia has a slight edge in AA, ATI and Nvidia both use Rotated Grid method.

Frankly i dont believe a word quoted there. I HIGHLY doubt that you cannot get the 6800GT to play consistently with 2x/8x. Not even in HL2 the game that ATI holds the greatest lead does the 6800GT have too much trouble at that resolution. THe only card that should stumble at that resolution is the 6800OC. The X800Pro is clocked high enough to somewhat compensate for the 4 missing pipelines.

-Kevin

Well Kevin, go argue with the HardOCP reviewer since he gets paid to do this. I could care less what you believe because the fact is you always argue with everyone & I'm not interested.

This is my first post in this thread. How do i argue with everyone???

Hey gets paid to do this ... didn't know that any of these reviewers got a salary for this.

How can you simply ignore my argument. I explained all my reasons, and i even did a direct comparison of the cards. Are you lazy or can you not come up with a decent counter argument? (Believe me i understand the lazy part )

-Kevin

No, I've just seen you bust into my threads & argue with everyone until they quit posting in the thread. You don't shut up, ever. You're a monumental pain in the ass & not worth debating with, especially when the review MAKES EVERYTHING VERY CLEAR & EASY TO READ. I guess you think the reviewer is just flat out lying or trying to mislead people, right? Yet he still mentions later in the same review that the 6800gt looks better than the X800XL in Doom3 even at lower settings, but that doesn't matter because I had the audacity to actually say the ATi can outperform the nVidia in something...namely a friggin football game that most people play on consoles anyways. Is that a good enough retort for you?