I'm looking at going with a 9800 (non-pro) card. I'm tired of trying to find the clock speeds between the two models. What are they and how much slower are the SE's? How high do the 9800's O/C to? Thanks in advance.
ATI people: Clock speed difference between 9800 and 9800SE
- Thread starter danbfree
- Start date
I'm looking at going with a 9800 (non-pro) card. I'm tired of trying to find the clock speeds between the two models. What are they and how much slower are the SE's? How high do the 9800's O/C to? Thanks in advance.
I don't know how much slower one of the SE's are clocked, but it doesn't matter. This card has half the pipes of a normal 9800 (and some only have a 128 bit memory bus) which completely cripples the card. You're looking at performance in some situations that is comparable to a 9500np. Unless you could get a complete steal on an SE you are way better of with the usual 9800np.
Wow, I only thought the difference was clock speed! So it's like nVidia did with their MX crap, cut the pipelines in half! OK, so I can get a non-SE Sapphire for about $237 shipped. I guess that's the way to go then... Are they clocked at 325/580 and how fast can they be clocked to in a case with good air-flow??
Yes they are clocked at 325/580. they can overclock like hell. some ppl in these forums, like rickon66 and stardust have overclocked the living crap out of these cards, passing 9800 pro stock speeds. so its a good choice. i have overclocked mine to pro speeds for safety reasons, but am gonna plan to go beyond. 
Yup, shocked when I found out too.
A way to use up chips that don't make the cut pipe-line-wise i guess.
The card maker, of course, doesn't make this very clear, if it's mentioned at all.
Another case where SE = neutered.
WEll the SE can be modded to open all 8 pipes, but its better to spend a couple more bucks and not take the risk.
I haven't heard of anyone being successful at modding one of these yet, and I'd doubt that many will be. IMO not worth the risk.
Is there any hard info on the 9800SE yet? I thought it was still mostly rumours. Anyway from what I've heard to date there are 2 9800SE cards, clock speed isn't really the issue, the likely perf is. So he's my thoughts on them ...128bitDDR - should give perf equal to a 9500PRO (so 15%ish faster than a 9600PRO)
256bitDDR - should give perf equal to a 9700nonPRO (so inbetween a 9500PRO and 9700PRO/9800)
I'm assuming that will be the case, I'm also taking an educated guess that they will use the 0.13mu process so be able to clock much higher than the 9800PRO but as already said they only have half the pipelines ... that would make the 9800SE vs 9800 cards the equivilent to a of a 9600PRO vs 9500PRO(128bitDDR) or 9700nonPRO (256bitDDR). As said they will surely have half the pipes firstly because it makes them MUCH cheaper to produce and secondly it enables any 9800 cards which have 1-4 faulty pipes to be re-used. Chances of successfully modding these cards is virtually zero, someone would have to use a 9800 PCB which has all 8 pipes fully functional ... the 9500nonPRO thing was due to ATI wishing to get the cards out ASAP and not having 4 specific pipe PCB's to use. If you are looking to buy now the 9800nonPRO is the top card, but you may get a bargain deal on one of the 9700 series or the 9500PRO which are both amazingly good cards. 9600PRO is decent and as good as FX5600ultra but you're still at GF4TI4200 levels but with better AA+AF and DX9.
Well I found some info on the 9800SE series, not rock solid but here it goes...9800SE-128bit 325/250 3.6-4.0ns TSOP 6layer 4pipes
9800SE-256bit 380/340 2.8ns BGA 8layer 4pipes
9800Pro-256bit 380/350 2.8ns BGA 8layer 8pipes
9600Pro-128bit 400/300 2.8-3.0ns BGA ?layer 4pipes
BMs suggest 9800SE-128bit is 20% slower than 9600PRO while 9800SE-256bit is 5-10% faster than 9600PRO. 9600PRO can averagely hit 520 core though (thanks to 0.13mu), 9800SE is near the limit by stock (thanks to 0.15mu and using binned cores)! Using the 9600PRO as a comparison the 9800SE-128bit would be 20% slower while the 9800SE-256bit would be 20% faster, that's in theory from the specs alone. I'm still in dis-belief that ATI have released 9800 series cards which are seriously inferior to the Rad9500PRO ... as if Rad9600PRO wasn't bad enough! I really thought at least one of the 9800SE were going to use 0.13mu and be to the 9800 series what the 9600 series is to the 9500 series ... 0.13mu and hence faster clocks but yes, only 4 pipes which would almost make up for the loss of pipes (but not enough to worry the true 9800 cards). If both 9800SE had been 0.13mu that would have fit in nicely and roughly made the slower 9800SE equal to the 9500PRO and the faster 9800SE equal to the 9700nonPRO. Hence you would have a current line-up as follows...9600PRO = entry level DX9 card (9600 is pants)
9800SE_1 = 15-20% faster than 9600PRO (9500PRO speed)
9800SE_2 = 15-20% faster than 9800SE_1 (9700 speed)
9800 = 15-20% faster than 9800SE_2 (9700PRO speed)
9800PRO = 15% faster than 9800
Anyway ATI thought otherwise, so it seems no 9800SE card will rival the 9500PRO ... worse than the Rad9000-9200 vs Rad8500 fiasco! Anyway there's no doubt (ha ha) that ATI will be releasing the following 9900 series cards ...9900SE = with the way ATI's naming is going it may be a suped up Rad8500 LOL!
9900 = 9800PRO on 0.13mu with faster clocks (DDR-II likely) 450/400ish
9900PRO = again 0.13mu and 20% faster than 9900 (DDR-II surely) 550/500ish
I'd expect 9900 Q1 2004, possibly Q4 2003. Ah well...If you had a load of GPU cores which wouldn't work as fully fledged 9800's, would you bin them, or use them on cards to make profit from what otherwise might be waste?
Re using neutered 9800 cores seems a sensible idea, less waste, and possibly more money for ATi.
And the 9600 is supposed to replace the 9500 (even though it's not as good as the Pro), and the 9700 isn't all that expensive. They might end up cutting their own throats if they put out 9800 cored parts that outperformed the 9600's.
I'd guess there might be a higher margin on 9600 if they can get more on a wafer, and with simplified PCB, the costs may be fairly low, and it flagships their low end market.
They're also doing a 64-bit mem bus 9600 to compete with the FX5200 in the real low end market.
Re using neutered 9800 cores seems a sensible idea, less waste, and possibly more money for ATi.
And the 9600 is supposed to replace the 9500 (even though it's not as good as the Pro), and the 9700 isn't all that expensive. They might end up cutting their own throats if they put out 9800 cored parts that outperformed the 9600's.
I'd guess there might be a higher margin on 9600 if they can get more on a wafer, and with simplified PCB, the costs may be fairly low, and it flagships their low end market.
They're also doing a 64-bit mem bus 9600 to compete with the FX5200 in the real low end market.
It is in fact the 8 pipeline card for $237 at Xtreme Gear. It SPECIFICALLY mentions 8 pipelines in the pricewatch ad for that price. It's the Sapphire card, which we use the Sapphire 9000 series at Intel where I work. Sounds like a great deal for the money. Yeah, if the Se only has 4 pipelines it is built on the same process as a non-SE but has 4 pipelines locked out for marketing and quality control/binning reasons. They DEFINITELY don't make a seperate process just to sell a 4 pipeline card cheaper.. Thanks for the advice, this forum rocks and I look forward to being a part of it more often...
SO SAPPHIRE 9800 NON-PRO OWNERS... what have you been able to clock up to???
ATI
Info...
ONLINE ORDER ONLY -
Sapphire RADEON 9800 128MB DDR DDR DVI 8x AGP *8 pipeline* (OEM) ATI RADEON 9800 128 MB DDR DVI 8x AGP 256-bit memory interface
(Part - VC_124_111)
Price: $231
Ship 1 : $3.00 - 5.75 FEDEX GROUND SAVER INSURED
Will Ship: Same - 1day
Updated:8/18, 10:34AM
$236.75 Xtreme Gear
Info...
888-937-5580
626-813-7730
http://www.buyxtremegear.com/sap9800128.html
Info...
ONLINE ORDER ONLY -
Sapphire RADEON 9800 128MB DDR DDR DVI 8x AGP *8 pipeline* (OEM) ATI RADEON 9800 128 MB DDR DVI 8x AGP 256-bit memory interface
(Part - VC_124_111)
Price: $231
Ship 1 : $3.00 - 5.75 FEDEX GROUND SAVER INSURED
Will Ship: Same - 1day
Updated:8/18, 10:34AM
$236.75 Xtreme Gear
Info...
888-937-5580
626-813-7730
http://www.buyxtremegear.com/sap9800128.html
I wonder if Xtreme Gear will give me a deal now for plugging them... hehe.. a man can only dream!
9800PRO (0.15) 380/340 256bitDDR 8pipes 21.8GB/s 3.2Gp/s
9800 . . . (0.15) 325/310 256bitDDR 8pipes 19.8GB/s 2.6Gp/s
9800 should o/c to around 380/350 with little problem. You should certainly get 9800PRO perf. I doubt the 9800PRO will o/c much higher than the nonPRO. Anyway nothing's for sure aso be sure to take SLOW and steady steps thoroughly testing each time ... you don't want to fry your card as perf diffs are small anyway! I'd have said 9700nonPRO is still a top bargain, should be around $160? They tend to o/c from 275/270 to somewhere around 370/310 and yield perf VERY close to 9800PRO just lacking a few AA+AF optimisations and the T-buffer.
9800 . . . (0.15) 325/310 256bitDDR 8pipes 19.8GB/s 2.6Gp/s
9800 should o/c to around 380/350 with little problem. You should certainly get 9800PRO perf. I doubt the 9800PRO will o/c much higher than the nonPRO. Anyway nothing's for sure aso be sure to take SLOW and steady steps thoroughly testing each time ... you don't want to fry your card as perf diffs are small anyway! I'd have said 9700nonPRO is still a top bargain, should be around $160? They tend to o/c from 275/270 to somewhere around 370/310 and yield perf VERY close to 9800PRO just lacking a few AA+AF optimisations and the T-buffer.Yeah, I'm sure the same xtreme gear who was spamming this forum for attention will give you a deal. If I were you I wouldn't even consider ordering from them, first because of the spamming thing, but also cause their reseller rating is somewhere around 4.
Originally posted by: AnAndAustin
9800PRO (0.15) 380/340 256bitDDR 8pipes 21.8GB/s 3.2Gp/s
9800 . . . (0.15) 325/310 256bitDDR 8pipes 19.8GB/s 2.6Gp/s
Excellent... Just the kind of info I was looking for. I have a Gainward GF4 TI 4200 Golden Sample now and it overclocks higher than a 4400 at least, so I'm familiar with overclocking video cards. I have O/C'd cards since my Voodoo3. As far as the 9700 non-pro being a better value, I want to try to make myself future proof as long as I can with the extra optimisations of the 9800.
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