ATI not supporting OpenGL with CrossfireX

Wreckage

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http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/14355/6

I've excluded the three- and four-way CrossFire X configs here since they don't support OpenGL-based games like this one.

This has been going on for years. They said they were going to fix performance issues and other than a fix for a few specific games they are still dropping the ball big time. Their Quake Wars numbers show this.

Now CrossfireX won't even run OpenGL games.

This thread has descended into pointless personal bickering. Time to relock it.

-Schadenfroh (AT Senior Mod)

 

tuteja1986

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Jun 1, 2005
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I don't think you need SLI or crossfire for Open GL game :! Name one exclusive Open gl game that requires SLI or crossfire to run smooth at high res.
 

Sylvanas

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Jan 20, 2004
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Scaling with 3 and 4 GPU's in OpenGL is coming in a future driver update,I think it was Anand who hinted at this recently.
 

nRollo

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Originally posted by: tuteja1986
I don't think you need SLI or crossfire for Open GL game :! Name one exclusive Open gl game that requires SLI or crossfire to run smooth at high res.

I'd say OpenGL is a serious problem for ATi Tuteja.

AnandTech just found a 3870X2 is much slower at ET: QW, and that's been out a long time.

ET: QW problem on 3870X2

 

tuteja1986

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Jun 1, 2005
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Originally posted by: nRollo
Originally posted by: tuteja1986
I don't think you need SLI or crossfire for Open GL game :! Name one exclusive Open gl game that requires SLI or crossfire to run smooth at high res.

I'd say OpenGL is a serious problem for ATi Tuteja.

AnandTech just found a 3870X2 is much slower at ET: QW, and that's been out a long time.

ET: QW problem on 3870X2

Amm , that wasn't full reason , Quake war engine Doom 3 was upgrade with MegaTexture feature. That feature runs excellent on cards that can process more texture unit. Also most the performance issue was solved , if you have a 3870 you can run the game at 60FPS easy with the latest driver.
 

Wreckage

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Originally posted by: apoppin
By the time GX2 handles 8xMSAA, 3870x4 will handle OgL :p

immature drivers
:roll:

who cares?

Well seeing as how well it handles 16xAA and how poorly the 3870 handles any AA some people care, I'm sure.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
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Originally posted by: nRollo
Originally posted by: tuteja1986
I don't think you need SLI or crossfire for Open GL game :! Name one exclusive Open gl game that requires SLI or crossfire to run smooth at high res.

I'd say OpenGL is a serious problem for ATi Tuteja.

AnandTech just found a 3870X2 is much slower at ET: QW, and that's been out a long time.

ET: QW problem on 3870X2

40 FPS at 25x16 .. you are right .. it should be at least 70FPS
- and i *bet* AMD's driver team has it as a top priority to fix.

Just like NVIDIA's driver team is working to address their own deficiencies

Well seeing as how well it handles 16xAA and how poorly the 3870 handles any AA some people care, I'm sure.
I don't get it?
:confused:
 

Munky

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Feb 5, 2005
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Seeing how well Nvidia handles AA in Crysis, I'm not too impressed by them either. Anyway, in 6 months nobody will care how well these last gen sandwich cards handled anything...

</pulls out lawnchair and marshmallows>

 

tuteja1986

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Jun 1, 2005
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Originally posted by: nRollo
Originally posted by: tuteja1986
I don't think you need SLI or crossfire for Open GL game :! Name one exclusive Open gl game that requires SLI or crossfire to run smooth at high res.

I'd say OpenGL is a serious problem for ATi Tuteja.

AnandTech just found a 3870X2 is much slower at ET: QW, and that's been out a long time.

ET: QW problem on 3870X2

The X2 performance in Quake war is a profile issue , should be resolved by next driver update. As for playing the game on a 1920x1200 All high on a $160 3870 512 can get you 60FPS.

Quake War1920x1200
3870 : 61.8
8800GT 512 : 77.9
8800 U : 85.

Quake War 2560x1600
3870 : 40
8800GT 512 : 54.6
8800 U : 63

Not as a big of problem as Nvidia has with G82 with Quality AA.




 

nRollo

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Jan 11, 2002
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Originally posted by: munky
Seeing how well Nvidia handles AA in Crysis, I'm not too impressed by them either. Anyway, in 6 months nobody will care how well these last gen sandwich cards handled anything...

</pulls out lawnchair and marshmallows>

War Munky!

LOL- I was just spoofing on Tuteja's "serious issue" with 8X AA.

I honestly, truly wish that people on forums across the world would stop thinking computer gaming is console gaming, and stop trying to prove their favorite brand is better by posting links to driver issues that half the time get resolved in the next few weeks anyway, and the other half are usually on games too old to care much about.

IMHO
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
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Originally posted by: nRollo
Originally posted by: munky
Seeing how well Nvidia handles AA in Crysis, I'm not too impressed by them either. Anyway, in 6 months nobody will care how well these last gen sandwich cards handled anything...

</pulls out lawnchair and marshmallows>

War Munky!

LOL- I was just spoofing on Tuteja's "serious issue" with 8X AA.

I honestly, truly wish that people on forums across the world would stop thinking computer gaming is console gaming, and stop trying to prove their favorite brand is better by posting links to driver issues that half the time get resolved in the next few weeks anyway, and the other half are usually on games too old to care much about.

IMHO

HOLD ON!!!!

that is also what you are doing:p

i got tired of that long ago
rose.gif
 

Wreckage

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Jul 1, 2005
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Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
ATI still not supporting OpenGL

I came in here thinking I was missing something and then found out the wolf crying was about Crossfire X :roll:

Not just the fact that CrossfireX won't run it at all.

Also that performance issues still exist among non-crossfire products.
 

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
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I've never had many (if any) OpenGL issues with my ATI cards...and the last time I remember ATI having any significant disadvantage with OpenGL was the better part of a decade ago.
 

Wreckage

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Originally posted by: BFG10K

This is false.

This is not false, check out all the reviews, they could not benchmark Quake Wars on XfireX because OpenGL is not supported.

Here I will even back up my statements with a link and quote. Something you should do as well.
http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/14355/6

I've excluded the three- and four-way CrossFire X configs here since they don't support OpenGL-based games like this one.

Also the performance gap between ATI and NVIDIA gets much wider when OpenGL is run over DirectX.

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/14168/6

We really need an AMD focus group member to come in and address this issue.

 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
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We really need an AMD focus group member to come in and address this issue.

High Road?

RotFL

we need their *driver team* to address this issue with Crossfire X

we need NVIDIA's driver team to address their OWN multitude of issues

not some BS "PR explanation" ;)
 

Janooo

Golden Member
Aug 22, 2005
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Originally posted by: nRollo
Originally posted by: munky
Seeing how well Nvidia handles AA in Crysis, I'm not too impressed by them either. Anyway, in 6 months nobody will care how well these last gen sandwich cards handled anything...

</pulls out lawnchair and marshmallows>

War Munky!

LOL- I was just spoofing on Tuteja's "serious issue" with 8X AA.

I honestly, truly wish that people on forums across the world would stop thinking computer gaming is console gaming, and stop trying to prove their favorite brand is better by posting links to driver issues that half the time get resolved in the next few weeks anyway, and the other half are usually on games too old to care much about.

IMHO

Would you, please, commit to lead by example?
 

Wreckage

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Originally posted by: apoppin

we need their *driver team* to address this issue with Crossfire X
I would be happy to test a B3 Phenom and XfireX for them and to be their rep here on this forum.

we need NVIDIA's driver team to address their OWN multitude of issues
A more recent review showed 8XAA running fine, so I think it's just your multitude of issues that needs to be addressed. :p


 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
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Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: apoppin

we need their *driver team* to address this issue with Crossfire X
I would be happy to test a B3 Phenom and XfireX for them and to be their rep here on this forum.

we need NVIDIA's driver team to address their OWN multitude of issues
A more recent review showed 8XAA running fine, so I think it's just your multitude of issues that needs to be addressed. :p

You a rep for AMD?
- OK .. i will back slowly away as no further comment is needed


AS to "8xMSAA running fine" on GX2 ... let's IGNORE that for a moment ..

Would you like to see a very long list of threads - that you evidently missed over the many months as we shifted away from NVIDIA on this forum - that *detail* real issues with NVIDIA drivers?
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
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Originally posted by: Wreckage
A more recent review showed 8XAA running fine, so I think it's just your multitude of issues that needs to be addressed. :p

In TWO games...:disgust:
 

nRollo

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Jan 11, 2002
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Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: apoppin

we need their *driver team* to address this issue with Crossfire X
I would be happy to test a B3 Phenom and XfireX for them and to be their rep here on this forum.

we need NVIDIA's driver team to address their OWN multitude of issues
A more recent review showed 8XAA running fine, so I think it's just your multitude of issues that needs to be addressed. :p

You a rep for AMD?
- OK .. i will back slowly away as no further comment is needed


AS to "8xMSAA running fine" on GX2 ... let's IGNORE that for a moment ..

Would you like to see a very long list of threads - that you evidently missed over the many months as we shifted away from NVIDIA on this forum - that *detail* real issues with NVIDIA drivers?


What I see a lot of on the forums is when fans of one brand can't say "The brand I'm a fan of has higher image quality/ greater speed" they resort to things like pointing out anecdotal evidence of driver deficiencies (both real and perceived), differences in warranties/customer service, percieved differences in company ethics, differences in power use/noise,price, difference in check box features, and (laughably) differences in the physical appearances of the cards.

Whichever one of these items has a possible edge for the card of choice is hyped as the "deal breaker factor" and all other items discounted in an illogical, and inexplicable attempt to defame the "enemy's" product and bolster perception of the beloved product.

I've been talking about video cards on forums since Voodoo 2 days, and you can bet the rent on the above.

Your favorite is losing the performance battle? Well, the winner costs too much. (as if the best performing parts ever wouldn't)

Your favorite is losing the performance battle? Well, the winner doesn't have DX10.1! (nor do any games, but that's a minor detail)

Your favorite is losing the performance battle? Well, I saw a review on a East German website where 8X AA had a big performance hit on a couple games! Good lord, we all need 8XAA!

Your favorite is losing the performance battle? Well, the winner looks "funny" to me, not "elegant" like the loser. As if it matters what video cards look like- they're sideways in the case so even if you have a windowed PC, and even if it isn't under your desk or next to it obscuring the view, you're likely looking at the top of it anyway. Personally, I'd plug a big hairy spider into my PCIE slot if it was 20% faster than anything else and had comparable IQ.

Your favorite is losing the performance battle? Well, the winner uses 30W more electricity per hour, and over the course of 20 years of gaming, that might add up to $20! We're not made of money you know.



At the end of the day, for buyers right now, only two things matter:

For dual GPU cards, NVIDIA offers a product that faster than two of ATis best dual GPUs combined, and offers comparable (if not better) IQ.

For single GPU cards, NVIDIA has no competition either.




We can talk about how cards "look", 3db differences in sound, transient driver issues, etc until our fingers bleed and our minds reel, but at the end of the day ATi needs to step up to the plate and improve their products because the only way they're able to compete now is lowballing price, and that is not good for a company that has a cruching debt load and is already losing money. I personally hope they'll do better with R700, the R600 was a disappointment for enthusiasts.

<steps off soapbox>


Note: This post is not directed at you Apoppin, nor any person in particular. It's only meant to be my commentary on debates such as the one in this thread.

 

Martimus

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Apr 24, 2007
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Originally posted by: nRollo

At the end of the day, for buyers right now, only two things matter:

For dual GPU cards, NVIDIA offers a product that faster than two of ATis best dual GPUs combined, and offers comparable (if not better) IQ.

For single GPU cards, NVIDIA has no competition either.

In my opinion, nVidia has better gaming cards, while AMD has better HTPC cards. To say that nVidia has no competition, is sweeping away the features that non-gamers (90% of the computer builders that I know) care about under the rug.

Also, people generally start to care about those other features that you seem to sweep away because they needed a similar feature in the past, and didn't have it.

*People hated the noise of their previous card, because it kept them up at night, so they want a quieter video card for their next purchase.

*People want DX10.1, because their last card only supported DX9.0B, and they couldn't play some games because their card didn't support Shader Model 3.0 (which was my case), so they are afraid of something similar happening in the future.

*People had general issues with their computer, because their new Video Card drew too much power and it took a long time to debug that they needed a bigger PSU to fix their new problems, so they want to keep power draw down in future purchases. (I don't understand the money savings argument that goes with this. If you are saving a couple dollars a month, you are likely to spend it on something else anyway.)

Just making sweeping generalizations about peoples reasons for what they want is a good way to insult others, but it doesn't mean much.