ATI in 2003: 9700 REVAMP to compete with NV30!!

[ai42]

ATI HAS GOT SOME new plans for the new year.
Its Chief Operating Officer (COO), Dave Orton, is the chap that sure made a difference in ATI from the time he joined two a half years ago when his company ArtX was bought by the Canadian graphics firm.

We spoke about financial results of ATI since by its financial logic it started its Q1 2003 on the first December and some things needed to be concluded.

What we heard from Dave Orton is that ATI is very optimistic after the staffers saw NV30 at Comdex and of course he uses every possible weasel language finesse to avoid the words banned by ATI ? the Lexmarked Geforce and Nvidia.

We know that ATI is working on a new, upcoming refresh that should come soon enough to compete with NV30 -- its R350 part with a hint that this card will be on market in the Spring.

As for the R350, ATI said that it is playing with the Radeon 9700 PRO with DDR II memory so we canexpect this kind of memory on R350 parts while GDER 3 is new graphics RAM that ATI preaches will find its place in some of the future products introduced by ATI in next year.

We assume that R350 will stick with DDR II for now and if the firm decides to use 256 bit memory interface we could have some seriously broad bandwidth with these cards.

As for R400 ? the completely new core -- ATI promised us that we will see this card as soon as June/July giving Nvidia one more trouble to bear as the R400 could bring some interesting new stuff in computer graphics while Nvidia is struggling to ship its NV30 by February or even later, we now understand.

Still, ATI needs to face a process problem, how to make a successful 0.13µ (micron) graphics processor unit (GPU) ? that Nvidia managed with the NV30.

If ATI continues its trend to keep its promises, Nvidia might have a very serious competitor.

By January, things should be much clearer, never mind when Sumer is i-cumin in.

Source

Now if ATI could have driver support as good as Nvidia has...

 

[vexingv]

woohoo...after two yrs i'm ditching nvidia and jumpin on the ati bandwagon...cant wait to get my hands on the r9500pro. from what i hear the ati drivers have improved drastically and now with the unified catalyst drivers ati cards should have updates/support for a long time

 

[Auric]

Don't stop the presses Cap'n Obvious

Seriously, of course ATI is going to have a "refresh" planned more than half a year later. As far as problematic ATI drivers, well that has simply not been an issue for sooo long that it just sounds silly.

 

[eaadams]

DDR-II 9700 pro was on screensavers a month ago. we all knew it was coming because we saw it running

 

[mrman3k]

This seems only logical. One thing people seem to forget, Nvidia basically obsorbed the majority of the 130nm teething pains so it should be a lot easier for ATI to come in to begin mass producing 130nm GPUs.

As for me, last spring I got a TI4400 and I will be sticking with it until my next major system revamp which will probably be about a year from now once Hammer and Prescott are out.

 

[PeeluckyDuckee]

This move was kind of expected by ATI. Being on top is one thing, but staying on there is a whole 'nother feat. If ATI play the cards right, the next refresh will come very shortly after the NV30 at a very competitive price point. Not just tendering to the high flying gaming enthusiasts, but a broad range of value cards for the budget gamers as well.

ATI knew how the general public was seeing them as 2nd rate due to their past history with drivers, so it was a smart idea they give that area the much needed attention it deserves.

Does anybody have any dollar figures as to how much of R&D dollars went into developing the NV30? With such intense competition and shortened product lifespan, how much longer can this chicken fight continue w/o negatively affecting the bottom line?

 

[CJP]

Does anybody have any dollar figures as to how much of R&D dollars went into developing the NV30? With such intense competition and shortened product lifespan, how much longer can this chicken fight continue w/o negatively affecting the bottom line?

I'm not positive but I think I read that it was around $400 million.

 

[DeathByDuke]

XBit Labs have also confirmed R350 will go head to head with GeForceFX and this info came from the COO at ATi themselves...

I knew nVidia would get caught out after watching the Voodoo5/Rampage Fiasco... first one came out six months later than should have, and the next never got released as it was soooo late. Would been nice though (Rampage) Don't panic nVidia guys as I don't think nVidia are as weak financially as 3Dfx were when they bit the dust...

 

[stryder2929]

lol on a sidenote, why is that guys face blacked out?

 

[eaadams]

From what date on do you not get the 9700pro and wait for the geforceFX and 350 with all other things being equal?

 

[Deeko]

From what date on do you not get the 9700pro and wait for the geforceFX and 350 with all other things being equal?

From whatever date you feel like.

This was kinda expected, so no real shocker, just some confirmation I suppose.

 

[Klax]

From what I've read, ATI and NVidia use the same chip manufacturer. NVidia opted for a more cutting edge process as ATI chose the traditional path. The cutting edge approach gives NVidia no realistic advantage in todays market. But it did give ATI the time it needed to jump ahead, and with the R350 on the way, stay ahead.

 

[EdipisReks]

maybe this will push the 9500pro down to $150. hopefully around early feb when my tax rebate should get here .

 

[bunnyfubbles]

 

[bunnyfubbles]

If ATI continues its trend to keep its promises, Nvidia might have a very serious competitor.

nVidia already has a serious competitor, it has been ATI for quite some time now...

Now if ATI could have driver support as good as Nvidia has...

I didn't know ATI was recently lacking in driver support, if anything it has been phenominal how much they have improved. Seems every few weeks I see driver updates from ATI boasting fixes and performance boosts...

I have a few doubts that the R350 will be able to directly compete with the GeForce FX but then again I was semi-shocked when I heard that the NV30 would be sticking with the "old" 128 bit memory architecture. Even with DDR II the GeForce FX will obtain "only" 16 GB/sec of memory bandwidth. The R350 with a 256bit memory architecture and DDR II could boast twice that bandwidth which could be very huge. Other than that the NV30 chip sounds far superior to the R300 or any refresh ATI might be able to do with it and the R350. It'll be interesting to see what comes up in the next few months. nVidia definately lost a lot of time in the 6 month refresh period, if anything ATI is gaining a lot of ground and if nVidia doesn't pick up the pace they could get lapped. No longer might it be a game of leapfrog, ATI might take the lead and gain distance leaving nVidia to play catch up. But, again, we will just have to wait and see. May prices fall for everyone's benefit!

 

[TheWart]

Well, I for one am excited. Owning 3DFX, Nvidia, and ATI cards, (currently the 9700PRO), I am not a 'fanboy.'

I will say that the 9700PRO is awesome, and the minor 'flaws' with it, are nothing more than what one would expect from such a new card.

Anyways, the R350 info has been floating around for quite a few weeks, and yes, the date for its release is almost certainly going to be around March, barring any major setbacks of course.

 

[lifeguard1999]

Other than that the NV30 chip sounds far superior to the R300 or any refresh ATI might be able to do with it and the R350.

Suppose, just suppose, that the NV30 (130 nm process) outperforms the 9700 Pro by 30% as has been rumored by the Inquirer. All ATI has to do with its R350 (150 nm process) to equal the NV30 is have the GPU sped up by 30%. xbit lasbs in the article already showed how they could overclock the 9700 Pro by 38%. ATI's raw memory bandwidth is already superior to the FX. Let us suppose that the FX is superior to the R350 in DX9 instructions, loops, etc., etc., etc. Those superior functions of the chip will not be of any use in games for at least a year or more. By then both ATI and NVidia will have moved on.

R300 (9700 Pro; 150 nm process) launched July 2002; available August 2002
NV30 (GeForce FX Ultra; 130 nm process) launched November 2002; available January 2003
R350 (150 nm process) to be launched March 2003?; available April 2003?
RV350 (unnamed value processor; 130 nm process) to be launched ???

NVidia is likely to rule the roost for about 3 months before ATI resumes the lead. Let the wars heat up (and the prices fall).

 

[heliomphalodon]

ATI needs to come out with a 9700 card that supports dual-DVI. I don't want to have to get a FireGL card to support my flat-panels. Until they do that, I'm sticking with nVIDIA -- especially after my recent disappointments with the Radeon 9000 PCI.

 

[BFG10K]

No real surprises here. About the only question remaining is how much faster will it be than the GeForce FX.

 

[nRollo]

Now this IS news!
You mean ATI is actually going to make a product they hope will compete with nV30?! I never would have guessed!

 

[lifeguard1999]

From Maximum PC.


Quote

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GeForce FX

Quake3 Demo001, 1600x1200 2xAA: 209fps
UT 2003 Asbestos, 1600x1200 2xAA: 140fps
3DMark Game4, 1600x1200 2xAA: 41fps


Radeon 9700 Pro

Quake3 Demo001, 1600x1200 2xAA: 147fps
UT 2003 Asbestos, 1600x1200 2xAA: 119fps
3DMark Game4, 1600x1200 2xAA: 45fps

Tests were run in the Alienware prototype system.

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So the FX is 40% faster in Quake 3 and 20% faster in Unreal. That falls just at or within the 38% overclock that xbit labs did. ATI's answer should at least equal the FX, if not surpass it.