ATI and AMD production question

[EvanAdams]

I was wondering if with an AMD and ATI merger is it possible for ATI to use the AMD facilities that make older processors and that way AMD is not paying to keep up older and less usefull facilities?

OR is the stuff needed to make GPU's vs CPU's so differnent that we wont see any real benefit?

 

[Gstanfor]

There are no facilities at AMD for making older processors. FAB18 was was last used for manufacturing flash memory and is still on the 0.18 micron process IIRC. GPU wise, that's GeForce 3 era technology...

 

[cmrmrc]

i doubt that ATI would want AMD older facilities to make gpu, maybe to make old gpus but for cutting-edge gpu, they will probably use the newest facilities which are pretty advanced in technology.

 

[apoppin]

of course ATi will share AMD's facilities . . . that is a 'given'

 

[Praxis1452]

no. They will only do so if there is room for amd 1st. However there isn't as 100% of amd fabs are being used for processors.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Praxis1452
no. They will only do so if there is room for amd 1st. However there isn't as 100% of amd fabs are being used for processors.

nonsense . . . ATis is becoming PARTof AMD

Anand Lal Shimpi's Weblog/What if AMD/ATI Merged?

But more importantly, imagine a GPU company that was no longer fabless. If ATI were able to gain a manufacturing advantage over NVIDIA you'd be able to see more transistors, clocked higher and running cooler in ATI GPUs than NVIDIA at any given product cycle.

ATi - as part of AMD - will have a "Preferred" status at their Fabs

 

[Dribble]

I think ATI will have trouble finding space on the newest fabs for their gpu's, AMD can't keep up with demand as it is. I suspect what this really means is lots more ati motherboards as AMD will be able to use *last gen* fabs for motherboard chips.

 

[TheRyuu]

No, ATI and Nvidia both use TSMC and UMC (those letters right?) although I think Nvidia only uses TSMC at the moment. Both those fabs produce all of ATI's and Nvidia's GPU's and will probably be the only ones to produce those GPU's for a long time. Maby in a couple of years we might see a fab dedicated JUST to GPU's.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: wizboy11
No, ATI and Nvidia both use TSMC and UMC (those letters right?) although I think Nvidia only uses TSMC at the moment. Both those fabs produce all of ATI's and Nvidia's GPU's and will probably be the only ones to produce those GPU's for a long time. Maby in a couple of years we might see a fab dedicated JUST to GPU's.

not any more . . . ATi can say bye-bye to outsourcing . . . why go anywhere but AMD. . . now?
:Q

 

[formulav8]

I forgot where I saw it but its possible that AMD's latest fab has gpu capabilities and the new NY fab will have the gpu capabilities too. As has been mentioned already, having your OWN fab is a HUGE plus for a cpu/gpu maker.




Jason

 

[TanisHalfElven]

well amd cpu is not gonna be in as much demand any more so they'll probably use the installed fabs to produce gpus.

 

[Stoneburner]

well in the future probably but i doubt there is going to be much change. THings might go normally with r600 and k8l being released but a year or more down the line we might see some gpu production.


Disclaimer: I remain heavily pessimistic about this merger.

 

[EvanAdams]

Originally posted by: formulav8
I forgot where I saw it but its possible that AMD's latest fab has gpu capabilities and the new NY fab will have the gpu capabilities too. As has been mentioned already, having your OWN fab is a HUGE plus for a cpu/gpu maker.




Jason

About 30min after I posted this thread that poped up on inq. i think. I know I read it last night.

 

[coldpower27]

Its doubtful at this point if ATI will use AMD only for fab production, since that means AMD will have less for themselves, which they need now more then ever to compete with Intel with the price wars going on in the department. Remember, even with 183mm2 dies on Windsor, 152-301US pricing is still much cheaper and they are going to need more capacity to address these price points.

 

[Hard Ball]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: wizboy11
No, ATI and Nvidia both use TSMC and UMC (those letters right?) although I think Nvidia only uses TSMC at the moment. Both those fabs produce all of ATI's and Nvidia's GPU's and will probably be the only ones to produce those GPU's for a long time. Maby in a couple of years we might see a fab dedicated JUST to GPU's.

not any more . . . ATi can say bye-bye to outsourcing . . . why go anywhere but AMD. . . now?
:Q

Definitely not on 65nm any time soon. They are having problems in the rate of conversion to the new node, and will have severe supply constraints, as well as yield issues when they first pump out Rev G chips by the end of the year. That is the most important reasons why Rev G chips, initially will not be clocked higher than their Rev F 90nm counter parts (may even be slower at release).

And by the 1H 0f 07, the will need to start the production and filling SKUs of new K8L server chips, which are necessarily made on 65nm process; in preparation of the mid-year launch. And Fab36 and Fab7 of Chartered will be the only Fabs pumping out substantial amount of 65nm silicon; with Fab30 beginning to undergo major conversion, turning into Fab38 by 2008. They will have some major supply constraints, considering that both Fab36 and Fab7 will still be in the process of conversion during the entirety of 07 (only a part of the capacity will be at 65nm). I don't think that they would want another hassel by adding masks for graphics chips to the mix.

I think realistically, you are probably looking at a substantial capacity for fabbing graphics chips from AMD sometime during 2008. And that's probably the timeframe when they begin the switch from discrete add-on cards to integrated co-processors (through HTX slot, socket comatibility, or integration packaged with a CPU die in an MCM).

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Hard Ball

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: wizboy11
No, ATI and Nvidia both use TSMC and UMC (those letters right?) although I think Nvidia only uses TSMC at the moment. Both those fabs produce all of ATI's and Nvidia's GPU's and will probably be the only ones to produce those GPU's for a long time. Maby in a couple of years we might see a fab dedicated JUST to GPU's.

not any more . . . ATi can say bye-bye to outsourcing . . . why go anywhere but AMD. . . now?
:Q

Definitely not on 65nm any time soon. They are having problems in the rate of conversion to the new node, and will have severe supply constraints, as well as yield issues when they first pump out Rev G chips by the end of the year. That is the most important reasons why Rev G chips, initially will not be clocked higher than their Rev F 90nm counter parts (may even be slower at release).

And by the 1H 0f 07, the will need to start the production and filling SKUs of new K8L server chips, which are necessarily made on 65nm process; in preparation of the mid-year launch. And Fab36 and Fab7 of Chartered will be the only Fabs pumping out substantial amount of 65nm silicon; with Fab30 beginning to undergo major conversion, turning into Fab38 by 2008. They will have some major supply constraints, considering that both Fab36 and Fab7 will still be in the process of conversion during the entirety of 07 (only a part of the capacity will be at 65nm). I don't think that they would want another hassel by adding masks for graphics chips to the mix.

I think realistically, you are probably looking at a substantial capacity for fabbing graphics chips from AMD sometime during 2008. And that's probably the timeframe when they begin the switch from discrete add-on cards to integrated co-processors (through HTX slot, socket comatibility, or integration packaged with a CPU die in an MCM).

that's what i said . . . ATi won't have to outsource . . . a year? . . . of course, they still have contracts to fulfill at their current fabs . . . nothing in business is "instant". . . . i hope you didn't get the implicationfrom what i commented that ATi would instantly switch to AMD fabs . . .

in goodtime

and your scenario sound great for AMD-ATi [DaaMiT]
:Q

 

[Maxspeed996]

Originally posted by: Hard Ball

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: wizboy11
No, ATI and Nvidia both use TSMC and UMC (those letters right?) although I think Nvidia only uses TSMC at the moment. Both those fabs produce all of ATI's and Nvidia's GPU's and will probably be the only ones to produce those GPU's for a long time. Maby in a couple of years we might see a fab dedicated JUST to GPU's.

not any more . . . ATi can say bye-bye to outsourcing . . . why go anywhere but AMD. . . now?
:Q

Definitely not on 65nm any time soon. They are having problems in the rate of conversion to the new node, and will have severe supply constraints, as well as yield issues when they first pump out Rev G chips by the end of the year. That is the most important reasons why Rev G chips, initially will not be clocked higher than their Rev F 90nm counter parts (may even be slower at release).

And by the 1H 0f 07, the will need to start the production and filling SKUs of new K8L server chips, which are necessarily made on 65nm process; in preparation of the mid-year launch. And Fab36 and Fab7 of Chartered will be the only Fabs pumping out substantial amount of 65nm silicon; with Fab30 beginning to undergo major conversion, turning into Fab38 by 2008. They will have some major supply constraints, considering that both Fab36 and Fab7 will still be in the process of conversion during the entirety of 07 (only a part of the capacity will be at 65nm). I don't think that they would want another hassel by adding masks for graphics chips to the mix.

I think realistically, you are probably looking at a substantial capacity for fabbing graphics chips from AMD sometime during 2008. And that's probably the timeframe when they begin the switch from discrete add-on cards to integrated co-processors (through HTX slot, socket comatibility, or integration packaged with a CPU die in an MCM).

I agree! This is what I've been sayin too! Just imagine an integrated co-processor on the pipline....instead of the add on cards like we've always had , we start seeing more of a "co-processor" graphics solution....then with 4+ gigs of DDR3 memory to back it up...

..,.......my new Asus motherboard , with dual Conroe/Conroe CPU/Graphics capability....
Hell yea!!

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: wizboy11
No, ATI and Nvidia both use TSMC and UMC (those letters right?) although I think Nvidia only uses TSMC at the moment. Both those fabs produce all of ATI's and Nvidia's GPU's and will probably be the only ones to produce those GPU's for a long time. Maby in a couple of years we might see a fab dedicated JUST to GPU's.

not any more . . . ATi can say bye-bye to outsourcing . . . why go anywhere but AMD. . . now?
:Q

even amd has signed up with a contract fab to make their processors for them. at least for the moment.

right now, ati has contracts with UMC and TSMC, and i doubt those will be broken. no, they'll continue until those contracts expire.

Originally posted by: Maxspeed996

I agree! This is what I've been sayin too! Just imagine an integrated co-processor on the pipline....instead of the add on cards like we've always had , we start seeing more of a "co-processor" graphics solution....then with 4+ gigs of DDR3 memory to back it up...

..,.......my new Asus motherboard , with dual Conroe/Conroe CPU/Graphics capability....
Hell yea!!

no, it'd be a coprocessor stuck into a socket on the motherboard that could take any variety of chips, from another athlon/opteron to a physics processor to a graphics processor. though, with the memory requirements for GPUs as they stand right now, it'd require a much faster memory technology than what is currently out there. ati's next lineup will be pushing 60 GB/sec of memory bandwidth. in comparison, a dual channel c2d with the fastest ddr2 memory available (1066) gives *only* 17.5 GB/s

 

[fierydemise]

I believe one of the daily tech articles says ATI will continue to use TMSC and UMC fabs for R600 but after that with AMTI aiming for GCPUs in 2008 the production will probably be unified in AMD's fabs.