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Athlon XP2200+ $143 OEM 0.13 process
- Thread starter Villareal
- Start date
I wish AMD chose to go the FC-PGA2 route that Intel did with their latest CPUs. This means there is a metal crown between the bare CPU die and the heatsink fan. This makes installing the heatsink easier and much safer. IMHO, it also improves cooling. Many people are disappointed that the .13 core in the Athlon CPUs don't run that much cooler than the already hot .18 core. Whereas the Celeron with the same die change was dramatically cooler with the smaller die. I think the metal cap makes the difference and it makes the CPU that much sturdier and safer.
Originally posted by: SimMike2
I wish AMD chose to go the FC-PGA2 route that Intel did with their latest CPUs. This means there is a metal crown between the bare CPU die and the heatsink fan. This makes installing the heatsink easier and much safer. IMHO, it also improves cooling. Many people are disappointed that the .13 core in the Athlon CPUs don't run that much cooler than the already hot .18 core. Whereas the Celeron with the same die change was dramatically cooler with the smaller die. I think the metal cap makes the difference and it makes the CPU that much sturdier and safer.
Having an IHS (heatspreaded, metal crown, whatever) decreases cooling performance. I don't really think AMD needs it anyway. But there will be one on Hammer.
I never heard of any t-bird, duron or XP running that cool. In fact, I think you would be darn lucky to get one running under 40C. The 24C you mention sure sounds like your motherboard monitor, not the CPU monitor. The reason I say this is because right now in Seattle it is about 75 F degrees outside and my 1.2 GB T-bird is running at 49C, while the motherboard system monitor is 24C.I don't know why your cpu is running that hot. I is always at 24 C at normal condition.
As for the cap/heatspreader always decreasing cooling of the CPU, I think this is wrong because there are so many variables in how people apply their heatsink and thermal paste. Trust me, there are lots of people who do a very poor job applying the paste and heatsink. Having the larger cap over the core lessons this problem.
SimMike2,
I have an Soyo Dragon Plus with a AMD XP 1600. The software that came with the motherboard (SmartGuardian) indicate it is at 24C. I verified this by going to the bios and it said this same thing.
I know this temperature is not exactly accurate but it can't be more off than a few degrees.
I have an Soyo Dragon Plus with a AMD XP 1600. The software that came with the motherboard (SmartGuardian) indicate it is at 24C. I verified this by going to the bios and it said this same thing.
I know this temperature is not exactly accurate but it can't be more off than a few degrees.
Swanny is right, adding an extra barrier to the equation, only decreases heat transfer. Many seem to think that it would help, but it would not. Think about it, heat has to transfer from core to the CPU's heatspreader, or crown, using some type of interface material. Then the spreader has to transfer the heat to the heatsink, again using thermal interface material. The more junctions like this, the more thermal transfer loss.
TacoSupreme
Member
my xp2100+ runs at 45ish normally.. my case around 26. of course i dont have the best circulation in my room... but hey its been at a pretty good temp. got a thermaltake heatsink/fan
Originally posted by: yumyum
Hasu,
I don't know why your cpu is running that hot. I is always at 24 C at normal condition. Maybe you need to get a better heatsink/fan. I have an Alpha 8045.
Sounds like your CPU acts like cooler......heheh...
Squalish2357
Senior member
On thoroughbreds: Personally, I would wait until we get thoroughbred "B" cores, which is what the 2400 and 2600 are based off of, at lowend speeds. That way you get the chip very cheap, highly OCable, and don't have to worry about heat asmuch as the thoroughbred "A" cores out there now.
Simmike2: First of all, FC-PGA2 is a way of connecting a CPU to a motherboard. It has nothing to do with whether there is a heatspreader on the chip or not. And also, contrary to its name, a heatspreader does NOT help dissipate heat. It might spread heat evenly over the heatsink, but unless you are making your heatsink out of steel or something worse than aluminum, that is not likely to be a huge factor. The primary purpose of a heatspreader is to keep the core from being chipped on application of a heatsink. As a result, Intel is free to make heatsinks such as their retail boxed HSF, which clamps so tightly onto the processor that it actually bends the motherboard about a quarter inch, deforming an area around the processor. A heatspreader will never improve the thermal contact between HSF and chip, as it is merely another barrier between the heat source and the heat dissipator. The only reasons that Northwoods are so easily cooled are:
1) They are .13micron and built so that they produce very little heat compared to .18micron based processors
2) The die area of the northwood is very large in and of itself, and the heat comes off the processor evenly over a large area, instead of over a tiny area as with the relatively tiny core of the Thoroughbred, through which 70 watts of heat is put out. This is partly because economically, AMD and Intel are more successful if they put out more processers per wafer. AMD shrunk their processors to do this, Intel switched their wafer size from industry-standard 200mm to 300mm
3) The retail HSF that intel put out with the Northwood was very well built, a very effective design, and is probably the best retail HSF boxed with any processor, as compared to the aftermarket coolers. Because of this, there has been very little activity in the P4 HSF market compared to the Athlon HSF market, with something like 5-10% of the cooler models as the athlon.
On 24C temp readings: 24C is, FYI, 75 degrees fahrenheit, which is about room temperature in most locales. Accurately read, even the best non-peltier, non-phasechange watercooling setups increase the temperature atleast 2C-5C degrees above ambient at the waterblock. If the motherboard is reading the under-chip diode(built into the motherboard), then it can be off by as much as 10C-15C, if it is reading the on-chip diode(which your motherboard isn't) it is considerred the most accurate reading. I don't think this is your problem though, I think somehow your motherboard is reading case temperature or something. Even on an under-chip diode, it can't be at room temperature if the processor is on.
Simmike2: First of all, FC-PGA2 is a way of connecting a CPU to a motherboard. It has nothing to do with whether there is a heatspreader on the chip or not. And also, contrary to its name, a heatspreader does NOT help dissipate heat. It might spread heat evenly over the heatsink, but unless you are making your heatsink out of steel or something worse than aluminum, that is not likely to be a huge factor. The primary purpose of a heatspreader is to keep the core from being chipped on application of a heatsink. As a result, Intel is free to make heatsinks such as their retail boxed HSF, which clamps so tightly onto the processor that it actually bends the motherboard about a quarter inch, deforming an area around the processor. A heatspreader will never improve the thermal contact between HSF and chip, as it is merely another barrier between the heat source and the heat dissipator. The only reasons that Northwoods are so easily cooled are:
1) They are .13micron and built so that they produce very little heat compared to .18micron based processors
2) The die area of the northwood is very large in and of itself, and the heat comes off the processor evenly over a large area, instead of over a tiny area as with the relatively tiny core of the Thoroughbred, through which 70 watts of heat is put out. This is partly because economically, AMD and Intel are more successful if they put out more processers per wafer. AMD shrunk their processors to do this, Intel switched their wafer size from industry-standard 200mm to 300mm
3) The retail HSF that intel put out with the Northwood was very well built, a very effective design, and is probably the best retail HSF boxed with any processor, as compared to the aftermarket coolers. Because of this, there has been very little activity in the P4 HSF market compared to the Athlon HSF market, with something like 5-10% of the cooler models as the athlon.
On 24C temp readings: 24C is, FYI, 75 degrees fahrenheit, which is about room temperature in most locales. Accurately read, even the best non-peltier, non-phasechange watercooling setups increase the temperature atleast 2C-5C degrees above ambient at the waterblock. If the motherboard is reading the under-chip diode(built into the motherboard), then it can be off by as much as 10C-15C, if it is reading the on-chip diode(which your motherboard isn't) it is considerred the most accurate reading. I don't think this is your problem though, I think somehow your motherboard is reading case temperature or something. Even on an under-chip diode, it can't be at room temperature if the processor is on.
I am very eager to replace my 1.4G Thunderbird with a newer XP. XP 2000+ is available for $105 at Googlegear and $120 at Newegg.
Looks like XP 2000+ comes with either Palomino or Thouroughbred core. How can I know if any of the above ones is based on Thouroughbred core?
Looks like XP 2000+ comes with either Palomino or Thouroughbred core. How can I know if any of the above ones is based on Thouroughbred core?
Originally posted by: SimMike2
I wish AMD chose to go the FC-PGA2 route that Intel did with their latest CPUs. This means there is a metal crown between the bare CPU die and the heatsink fan. This makes installing the heatsink easier and much safer. IMHO, it also improves cooling. Many people are disappointed that the .13 core in the Athlon CPUs don't run that much cooler than the already hot .18 core. Whereas the Celeron with the same die change was dramatically cooler with the smaller die. I think the metal cap makes the difference and it makes the CPU that much sturdier and safer.
I run a program called Vcool www.vcool.com.
Tt's dropped the temp on my AMD XP 10 degrees. 🙂
I verified this with another program called Motherboard Monitor 5.
Shelby
Originally posted by: hasu
I am very eager to replace my 1.4G Thunderbird with a newer XP. It's available for $105 at Googlegear and $120 at Newegg.
Looks like AMD XP 2000+ comes with either Palomino or Thouroughbred core. How can I know if any of the above ones is based on Thouroughbred core?
I upgraded my MB and at the same time I went ahead and changed from the old 1.4GHz to the XP 1.4GHz. The CPU temp dropped from mid 40's to 39 (or less) with the help of Vcool. Oh, I am running a heatsink with a 6800RPM Delta fan.
Shelby
In fact, I think you would be darn lucky to get one running under 40C.
Guess I got darn lucky.. my 1600+ runs at 36 (MB monitor and external DigiDoc5 readings) House is A/C to 78 F, and there's nothing special (1040b case w/3 fans running - NO overclocking)
Wonder if the 2200+ is worth picking up - Monarch is less than a block from where my GF works.
Man, if you actually ARE getting those temps, trust me, you're lucky. My 1600+ is running at about 42/43 under regular operation (shoots up when overclocked to 2100+ levels, but I only do that when I'll be running some DivX encoding) and I'm VERY happy with that. My old T-bird sat near 50 C.
Originally posted by: yumyum
Hasu,
I don't know why your cpu is running that hot. I is always at 24 C at normal condition. Maybe you need to get a better heatsink/fan. I have an Alpha 8045.
What fan do you slap onto your Alpha 8045, a fat 120mm Delta doing 100CFM? 😛
Is it worth going from my 1.33 tbird to a xp2000? I did see some benches on the xps and there were very little differences between the 2000 and the 2200 so I think I would get the 2000 just to save some money. These are gaming bench's and that is mostly what I do. Running a 4200 also.
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