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Athlon X2 4400+ or Athlon64 3200+

T

thilanliyan

Lifer
Hello,
I am currently in the process of building a new rig. Here are the major components I have thought of so far:

Abit AN8 Ultra m/b OR DFI NF4 Ultra-D (been reading that this is a bit unstable and likes to eat ram)
Athlon64 X2 4400+ OR Athlon64 3200+ Venice
OCZ PC3200 GOLD (BH5)
OCZ Powerstream 420/470 power supply
Ati Radeon X800XL

My main dilemma is the processor. I can get the 3200 for about $500 (Canadian) less than the X2 4400+. The main thing I would be doing is gaming but some video encoding as well (which I gather would see better results with the X2). I was thinking I guess I could save the $500 and buy a WD raptor (or two), but then I really can't decide.

Going the X2 route seems to me like the computer would last like an extra year over the 3200+ but is the huge price premium worth it right now? (And also, the 3200+ would eventually be overclocked)

THanks for any help.
 
I built my computer back in March or so, but it is very similarly configured to yours.

I have:

A64 3200+
1 GB RAM (Corsair Value 2.5)
2X WD RAPTOR (RAID 0)
X800XL
Chaintech VNF4 Ultra

I went with the 3200+ because it was plenty for gaming, and because I was planning on upgrading a couple years down the road.

The only real encoding I do is converting my CD's to MP3's, and the A64 does that fine (but I don't game @ the same time).

I think if you want to encode and game, then the 3200+ won't be very good. However, if you encode at a different time (set one up before going to bed or something), then the 3200+ might be a better choice becaues you can save the money now, and then upgrade to a 4800+ in a year or two when they are (hopefully) much less expensive.

That's what I plan on doing.

-D'oh!
 
Obviously the X2 provides more longevity, but here in the states it costs three times as much as a 3200+ Venice. That's a lot of coin. You can get really nice overclocks on the 3200+ and I think certainly enough to get you through the night while prices fall on X2 processors. If you have the money for the X2, why not go ahead and buy it; otherwise, get a 3200+ now (plus lots of goodies with the money you save) and sell it later when you want to upgrade to X2.
 
Originally posted by: AnnoyedGrunt
I built my computer back in March or so, but it is very similarly configured to yours.

I have:

A64 3200+
1 GB RAM (Corsair Value 2.5)
2X WD RAPTOR (RAID 0)
X800XL
Chaintech VNF4 Ultra

I went with the 3200+ because it was plenty for gaming, and because I was planning on upgrading a couple years down the road.

The only real encoding I do is converting my CD's to MP3's, and the A64 does that fine (but I don't game @ the same time).

I think if you want to encode and game, then the 3200+ won't be very good. However, if you encode at a different time (set one up before going to bed or something), then the 3200+ might be a better choice becaues you can save the money now, and then upgrade to a 4800+ in a year or two when they are (hopefully) much less expensive.

That's what I plan on doing.

-D'oh!
Click to expand...


And you are quite happy with your setup currently? Have you tried overclocking your 3200+ and what results if any?
 
On a side note, will I have to switch to Windows XP Pro if I go dual core? Or does Win 2000 support dual core? My extremely tweaked win 2000 is pretty snappy right now so I don't wanna mess with that.
 
Whether the X2 is worth the cost to you right now depends on how much difference the extra core will make to you and how much it's going to hurt to spend that much cash.

I decided to get the X2 because I'm always multitasking. The prices will come down eventually, of course, and there may very well be 1.8 or 2.0 GHz X2 for a lot less money. But I need to build a system now because my old one died, and if I get a Venice now to tide me over, by the time the dual-core prices become less painful, the resale value of the Venice will be significantly less than what I paid for it. My guess is that waiting six to nine months might save me $100-$200, if I'm lucky. But while I wait for the CPU that matches my work style, my other new components will be growing old, and even thought it's quite fast, the Venice will probably bog down now and then because of the way I work. So while my final cost might be a little less, my bang-for-buck between now and when I need to upgrade to something faster than a 4400 Toledo would significantly lower.

If you have both the money and a need for two cores now, getting the X2 makes sense. But if you mostly run one thing at a time and there are other things you need more than a second core, a good single core system seems like a better fit.
 
Originally posted by: Otter
Whether the X2 is worth the cost to you right now depends on how much difference the extra core will make to you and how much it's going to hurt to spend that much cash.

I decided to get the X2 because I'm always multitasking. The prices will come down eventually, of course, and there may very well be 1.8 or 2.0 GHz X2 for a lot less money. But I need to build a system now because my old one died, and if I get a Venice now to tide me over, by the time the dual-core prices become less painful, the resale value of the Venice will be significantly less than what I paid for it. My guess is that waiting six to nine months might save me $100-$200, if I'm lucky. But while I wait for the CPU that matches my work style, my other new components will be growing old, and even thought it's quite fast, the Venice will probably bog down now and then because of the way I work. So while my final cost might be a little less, my bang-for-buck between now and when I need to upgrade to something faster than a 4400 Toledo would significantly lower.

If you have both the money and a need for two cores now, getting the X2 makes sense. But if you mostly run one thing at a time and there are other things you need more than a second core, a good single core system seems like a better fit.
Click to expand...


I see what you mean. I thought of selling the venice a bit later also but I figure at most I would be able to sell it for like $125 (Canadian). With everything the system will cost me about $2000 (canadian) but it will last about 3 years I think. I mean my P4 1.4 with RDRAM (that's RIGHT!!!😀) that cost me 1800 lasted me 4 years with just a vid card upgrade so I think it might not be a bad investment to go with a 4400+. I just hope that AMD moving to the new socket next year won't screw things over for me in terms of performance.
 
Originally posted by: thilan29
I see what you mean. I thought of selling the venice a bit later also but I figure at most I would be able to sell it for like $125 (Canadian). With everything the system will cost me about $2000 (canadian) but it will last about 3 years I think. I mean my P4 1.4 with RDRAM (that's RIGHT!!!😀) that cost me 1800 lasted me 4 years with just a vid card upgrade so I think it might not be a bad investment to go with a 4400+. I just hope that AMD moving to the new socket next year won't screw things over for me in terms of performance.
Click to expand...
The release of new hardware is not going to make old hardware start working slower. It might mess with your upgrade path, though, but if you don't think you'll need a new CPU for a few years, why not go for the X2 - assuming your applications will benefit from it?
 
Originally posted by: ProviaFan
The release of new hardware is not going to make old hardware start working slower. It might mess with your upgrade path, though, but if you don't think you'll need a new CPU for a few years, why not go for the X2 - assuming your applications will benefit from it?
Click to expand...

What I meant was that a new socket means new m/b, new cpu, new ram (because of ddr2) just to SORT of keep up with the curve.

So, do you think an X2 system will last say about 2-3 years, while a 3200+ system would last about 1-2 years? I know what I asked is subjective as some people like to stay right on the performance edge, but I don't mind keeping an X2 system for 3 (or even more years) where I'll just overclock it by like the 2nd year and hope it tides me over until my next comp. OR, I get the 3200+ system and upgrade within 2 years to the newer stuff.

This is a really hard decision. 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Kensai
The X2 and DFI.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the DFI but then a LOT of people have cold boot issues (check over at DFI-street) with that board. People over at Xtremesystems have very positive things to say about the AN8 Ultra. And even there they mention the cold boot + memory dyng issues with the DFI board.
 
cold boot problem= are you into phase change or dry ice? they are not talking canadian blizards here
IF
max overclocker and you want to tweek memory settings to the max
Then
go for the dfi
else
other board and save $$$

under scnerio 1 a 3000 will also work jsut as well as a 3200
and get the raptors
OR
get 3-5 sata 7200 rpm drives and set up RAID 0+1 or raid 5
and have more storage and more reliability and be even faster

the faster disk can feel faster than the faster cpu
all is very application dependent
can you run the batch jobs on your old system? or at night or while you are at work/ school?

just get the valueram and use dividers
http://edgetechhq.50webs.com/valueram.htm popped up again today- still a good read
see the oc threads above- read both of them all the way through
 
Originally posted by: wyrmrider
cold boot problem= are you into phase change or dry ice? they are not talking canadian blizards here
IF
max overclocker and you want to tweek memory settings to the max
Then
go for the dfi
else
other board and save $$$

under scnerio 1 a 3000 will also work jsut as well as a 3200
and get the raptors
OR
get 3-5 sata 7200 rpm drives and set up RAID 0+1 or raid 5
and have more storage and more reliability and be even faster

the faster disk can feel faster than the faster cpu
all is very application dependent
can you run the batch jobs on your old system? or at night or while you are at work/ school?

just get the valueram and use dividers
http://edgetechhq.50webs.com/valueram.htm popped up again today- still a good read
see the oc threads above- read both of them all the way through
Click to expand...


Nono, I'm not talking about phase change or anything like that. Some of the guys on that forum showed that for some reason the board was supplying high voltage to the ram even when the computer was not on (tested using a multimeter) in certain instances. Because of this, and some other factors, they were getting dead ram and the computer would sometimes not boot after a power supply shut down(cold boot). I'm not sure of the exact specifics but there is a locked and stickied thread over at dfi-street.com if you wanna check it out. This voltage problem may be cured with a new bios but still not sure.

As for saving money, the Abit AN8 Ultra I can actually get cheaper than the DFI Ultra-D.

I was thinking about RAIDing a couple of raptors maybe.....still can't decide though.
 
cold boot problems is not = actual COLD temps...
cold boot has to do with the computer not wanting to boot up after its been off...

i have a DFI ultra-D and i've had no problems with it.
as for the ram dying... i've seen too many threads about it over at xtreme... but those guys are using the 4 vdimm jumper and using anywhere from 3.3 to 3.6 for their memory...

i've been using the 4 vdimm jumper but switched back to the default setting after reading all those threads... to be safe, go with some nice samsung tccd if that is a concern...

another nice thing about the ultra-D is that it can easily be modded to a SLI-D so if you ever decide to go SLI, then you can...

the abit an8 looks nice as well... i wonder if that chipset can be modded to sli...

as for raiding some raptors... 🙂 do it!

yeah... and as for the original question...

my question to you is... how often do you video encode and do you plan on heavy video encoding while doing other things...

if so, then i'd say go X2... else no need for anything more than an overclocked venice 3000/3200+ which probably has the best performance to cost ratio
 
so we have two cold boot problems one for the phase charge guys and one cold boot/ shutdown problem
nice post Shimmishim
thilan29
do not raid 0 two raptors unless you are a religeous backer upper and definately not if this is a mission critical computer
pencil it out- 5 7200 drives can run raid 0+1 faster, more reliable, lower cost, more storage, quieter

id go with a 3000 today and oc the snot out of it
if I needed more grunt sell it in a few months when the x2 market settles down
why be a pioneer

some lite reading
http://edgetechhq.50webs.com/valueram.htm

http://www.bleedinedge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7596

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=50421&page=1

http://www.bleedinedge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9833
If BIOS 310 does not fix your problems the following paragraph still applies:
We can't say enough good things about this board, but plug and play does not apply here. Every memory/chipset timing in the BIOS pretty much needs to be tweaked to keep from having testing errors. If you don't want to bother with all this you bought the wrong board.

This motherboard IS NOT a build and forget it project. It requires quite a bit of tinkering as you must know if you are reading this. It can aslo be extremely frustrating. In all likelyhood it's not the RAM, it's the BIOS and BIOS settings. The DFI is EXTREMELY powerful and can do what no other can, but the word "easy" does not apply.

http://i4memory.com/showthread.php?t=327


 
Originally posted by: Shimmishim
my question to you is... how often do you video encode and do you plan on heavy video encoding while doing other things...

if so, then i'd say go X2... else no need for anything more than an overclocked venice 3000/3200+ which probably has the best performance to cost ratio
Click to expand...

That is a good point. I don't video encode like everyday but maybe once a week. On the old P4 1.4 I had, I would leave long encoding jobs overnight because they usually took 5-6 hours (sometimes longer) and my computer would become completely unusable while encoding.
I think there are reviews out that show the X2 can do the encoding in almost half the time but also stay responsive enough to do something else. I would actually like this capability. Problem is right now I have several things I am concerned about:

1)price of X2 ( I save literally $600 Canadian if I go with the 3200+)
2)will the 3200+ become an unresponsive system while doing other things? (I noticed that my friend can ALT-TAB out of a game on his P4 hyperthreading and it goes to desktop immediately, while my regular P4 takes a bit of chugging to get to desktop)
3)would the 3200+ last me around 2 years?
4)would the X2 last me around 3 years? (considering AMD is going to a new socket next year)
5)Would there really be a noticeable difference in encoding using VirtualDub and also TMPegEncXpress?
(the list is not in any specific order)


Oh and WYRMRIDER--> I already have 4 7200 drives in my system so I can't fit anymore. ANd also, when you said 5 drives were you referring to RAID 5 or RAID 0+1 which you do with 4 drives right?

You have any links comparing different RAID level performance?
 
Originally posted by: thilan29
I just hope that AMD moving to the new socket next year won't screw things over for me in terms of performance.
Click to expand...
There is one potential problem, not with the socket change, but with Windows Longhorn. Rumor has it the new OS from MS will be deliberately crippled (limited screen resolutions, etc) unless the CPU supports hadrware based DRM and other nonsense giving what to me is an unacceptable level of control to Microsoft and others. AMD calls their DRM support "Presidio", and the M2 CPU's will have it, but I believe they left this horror off the X2. Hence, if you wanted to run Longhorn and allow corporations to control what you could do with your computer, you'd need a new motherboard, RAM, and CPU.

It will be interesting to see what happens if they go through with this. I can imagine a mass migration to Linux as people decided that running one of the least efficient and reliable operating systems on the planet isn't worth the potential abuses of this new technology. If the new "security" features are as big-brother as promised, I will be among those making the move, hence this has not been a factor in my choices for this upgrade. It may be different for you, however, and it's something to think about as you aim your crystal ball three years into the future.
 
Another option is to build another cheap cpu with the $450 US you save. Like a low end sempron,soso mobo,integrated video, etc. Overclock it and have it do video encoding while you use your main computer with the 3200 for gaming.
 
Originally posted by: wyrmrider


just get the valueram and use dividers
http://edgetechhq.50webs.com/valueram.htm popped up again today- still a good read
see the oc threads above- read both of them all the way through
Click to expand...



LOL, Looks like those a$$holes at Edge Tech stole the results from Zebo's RAM thread almost word for word and are taking credit for the research. What a bunch of idiots!!!!!! 🙁 🙁 🙁
 
Originally posted by: Hacp
Another option is to build another cheap cpu with the $450 US you save. Like a low end sempron,soso mobo,integrated video, etc. Overclock it and have it do video encoding while you use your main computer with the 3200 for gaming.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm...never thought about that. WIll check it out.
 
Originally posted by: richardrds
Originally posted by: wyrmrider
LOL, Looks like those a$$holes at Edge Tech stole the results from Zebo's RAM thread almost word for word and are taking credit for the research. What a bunch of idiots!!!!!! 🙁 🙁 🙁
Click to expand...
That's clearly Zebo's work, but did you notice the "submit article" menu button? There is no byline, but maybe Zebo uploaded it himself.
Click to expand...
 
you are correct
attribution to zebo is on the main page
good read eh?

like I said
snag several surplus free computers and hook em to a lan for batch jobs
get a 3000, value ram and oc to 2.6 or up to 300x9 with a 3:2 memory divider
get the PC3200 with a little lower cas if you want and T1
go for it- spend $100 for a gigabyte🙂
save your $$$$
 
even a xp-mobile can alt-tab out of a game into windows right away, it seems to depend more on ram in the system than actual processor speed (though cs:s artifacts for me if I start doing this)

the only multitasking i seem to do is burning a dvd and watching a video at the same time, its lags pretty bad on the video, i don't know if the a64 can do both at the same time
 
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