Athlon Neo X2 vs Intel Atom

[hans007]

Got a link to the MSI X2 neo laptop ?
i'm wondering what graphics it has

in desktop terms... the MSI u210 which is out now has the 690e. the future u230 (should be out any day) is 780e. The gateway lte3103 which is i think the only other netbook with the amd neo platform uses the 690e with a single core also. I believe the HP dv2 uses the 690e, but has a discrete radeon 3400 onboard as well with its neo cpu.


the first and second gen athlon neo x2 netbooks all use brisbane G2 core cpus. so basically the same core that goes in things like the athlon 3250e , or 5050e really. same chips in the zino hd more or less.

so if you have a neo single core, basically its the same chip as a 2650e (zino hd). which is a lima core. so a really downclocked athlon LE-1660.

The dual cores are brisbane G2 that work at lower voltage and at 1.5Ghz dissipate like 15-22W. same as the low power 3250e/6850e etc.

1st gen amd netbook platform uses the 690E chipset. radeon x1270 core. Basically a low power variant of the 690G.

The 2nd gen ones use the 780E. this is a 55nm core (the 690g i think is 80nm). so it uses the same power,m but has HD decode 40 shaders on a radeon 3000 class gpu. its basically a 780G/785G . I know the x100e laptop from lenovo even has an sb710 southbridge.


so basically, neo platform uses 65nm last gen AMD cpus very low clocked, paired with either the 1st or 2nd gen mobile chips 690e/780e.

i'd get a 780e based one if you can wait a few weeks for them to comeout. i think Q1 2010 they are supposed to have 45nm cpus coming as well which will no doubt be based on the regor athlon ii x2 cores...

 

[jvroig]

Thanks, hans007. That was very informative. I am in no hurry since the year is practically ended already, so I will definitely wait for the newer Neo X2s to come out and then re-evaluate my options at that time.

 

[zsdersw]

I'd love to see the dual-core Atom available in netbooks.

 

[jvroig]

I'd love to see the dual-core Atom available in netbooks.

I used a PC with a dual-core Atom. I was satisfied with the performance it gave, and if it would be available in a netbook, I would certainly consider it as an option.

 

[21stHermit]

I use an Atom 330 as my everyday PC, very impressed with the CPU. The graphics are definitely light. Some screen smearing and doesn't like CorelDraw.

I build topo maps that go from graphic application > text output > binary compile and the Atom 330 breezes through all three tasks.

 

[jvroig]

I think it was a heat/TDP target that prevented dual-core Atoms from being used in netbooks? The lowly netbook as we know it today wouldn't have been so lowly if dual-core atoms somehow made it into them.

 

[21stHermit]

I think it was a heat/TDP target that prevented dual-core Atoms from being used in netbooks? The lowly netbook as we know it today wouldn't have been so lowly if dual-core atoms somehow made it into them.

I don't believe that it was heat related, rather market segmentation, totally arbitrary. Each Atom core is only 2W TDP, much less than the GPU. My GPU/North Bridge has a fan whereas the Atom 330 has only a modest heatsink. Adding a second CPU core at 2W TDP is easy even for a netbook.

The WinTel axis didn't want netbooks competing with notebooks. An Atom 330 netbook would have been just too compelling. In contrast, my $125 Atom 330 barebone was/is a desktop lightweight, only appealing to power misers like myself.

 

[jvroig]

Ah, yes, that was the other reason floating around about it. I had no idea which to believe, so I offered the "harmless" reason first. A lot of tech friends of mine seem to agree with your reasoning. It does make sense from a business perspective, a very natural desire not to cannibalize too big of a portion of another product line.

 

[konakona]

This is an old thread, but I couldn't find similar thread discussing this topic, hence my bump with a question here.

A friend of mine had to get a netbook NOW (or REAL soon), so we headed off to local fry's to pick one up. We were debating between msi U123-019US (N280, 10.2'', 1gb ram, 160gb hdd) for $319.99 and msi U2100-O36US (MV-40, 12.1'', 2gb ram, 250gb hdd) for $349.99. He ended up with the atom on the premise that it will have better battery life. 2gb ram looks like a must so, price difference is non-existent IMO. He only intends to use it for light productivity apps - word, powerpoint, etc. Did he make a right choice? It's not too late to go back and return it for the other one otherwise...

EDIT: he wasn't happy with how small the keyboard was, but he says he will live.. maybe the 12 incher is a tad better (or less painful) at that?

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Well I think he just needs to consider which is more important:

1. Better battery life

2. bigger size (screen and keyboard)

The Atom and Neo are sufficient for Powerpoint and Word. The Atom should have a longer battery life. The Neo netbook has the bigger screen. The Neo will also be faster, but for the things he's doing it probably won't matter too much. Battery life and size are really the two things he should think about, since those are the issues you said he brought up. Maybe he should go back and try out the Neo for longer and see if the bigger size makes him happy.

 

[Hacp]

The Achilles heel of the neo platform is the GPU. If I remember correctly, its still made using 65nm.

 

[soccerballtux]

The Achilles heel of the neo platform is the GPU. If I remember correctly, its still made using 65nm.

At least it's not 95nm like the graphics chip paired with the Atoms currently.

 

[konakona]

Well I am kinda curious what kinda battery life these MV-40 netbooks are getting in reality. Atom is at awesome 2W TDP, but as someone has mentioned intel and AMD have different ways to measure their TDP. That, and the notorious 945 chipset that sucks out some juice. I think he sounded like he didn't mind the bigger size of 12'', so I felt like that would have been the better choice all around (looking for a cheap sodimm might be a bit of a hassle) except for the battery life.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Is it? I have no idea about their performance.


I'm sorry, I was not clear in my initial post. I'm actually looking for something that should outperform the Atom significantly, perhaps 3-4x. If the Athlon Neo X2 can't do that, then I will look for something else.


As a software developer, my work and my R&D interests end up with me using text editors and IDEs (eclipse), gcc, python, php, and also database tasks on MySQL. I also use GIMP on occasion, both for personal and work-related uses. I've been using my current MSI Wind for several months (it's very portable, so despite being only as powerful, cpu-wise, as my 4-year-old HP pavilion, it has become my de-facto laptop, so to speak), and normally it is just peachy, but I have given up on using it as my standard laptop because it recently slowed me down on some of my tasks, particularly on database reports that were a little complex. It took 45 seconds to generate the report in PHP with data from MySQL, including having PHP generate colorful bar graphs and pie charts for the data. On my home PC (Athlon X2 5000+), it takes 8 seconds. 45 seconds is too much, but I need a laptop because I have a very mobile lifestyle thanks to being a consultant, so I can't avoid working on one. That's why I want a small/light laptop, and also one that would be significantly more powerful than an atom.

Thanks.

Really . I thought Atom was netbooks. and not note books. Power saving beats performance in this case. But if you need more speed go for AMD. But for couple hundred more you can get Intel clarkdale and stomp all over that AMD processor . Read Anandas article on notebooks . Intel has all bases covered extremely well.

 

[konakona]

Netbooks are supplementary in nature, I don't think anyone wants to spend extra couple hundreds to do simplistic tasks. I am curious about power consumption myself, but sometimes you just need that size/weight/price advantage not necessarily battery life. That's where MV-40 comes in. I played around an atom netbook and it was fine, but could have been a tad better.

 

[dolphin888]

Is it? I have no idea about their performance.


I'm sorry, I was not clear in my initial post. I'm actually looking for something that should outperform the Atom significantly, perhaps 3-4x. If the Athlon Neo X2 can't do that, then I will look for something else.

Thanks.

You got to be kidding. How can things be 3-4x the performance of atom without being desktop replacement type notebook?

Assuming you want more than 1hour battery life...

You need to find notebook with battery life, 7200rpm drive, ddr3...
Even then, it will be hard to reach 3x.

 

[Seferio]

I have the old HP dm3z that uses the Athlon Neo X2 and has the 780e. You aren't going to get the battery life of an Atom based netbook (I'd say I can get 4 hours but this is with a 13.3" LCD), but performance wise the Atom isn't even close. The Athlon Neo X2 is as fast as the Athlon 64 X2 3600+, so it's obvious how much faster than the Atom the Neo is.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I bought an Emachines 'E627 laptop at Walmart last BF for $200, and while it's nice (780G graphics accerate full-screen Hulu to a watchable speed), I wish I had waited and picked up a dual-core version. Mine has a "TF-20", 1.6Ghz 64-bit single-core CPU. Running Pandora in the background sucks up nearly 100% of the CPU time. (But ordinary streaming radio uses 5-10% CPU time.)

 

[IntelUser2000]

I'd love to see the dual-core Atom available in netbooks.

Intel's Ultra-thin, Netbook "Canoe Lake" platform powered by the dual core Atom "Pineview" processor

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/01/intel-canoe-lake-prototype-netbook-hands-on/

~Q3

 

[IntelUser2000]

At least it's not 95nm like the graphics chip paired with the Atoms currently.

That depends on the version.

First generation Netbook Atom, "Diamondville"

45nm CPU core
0.13u(130nm GPU/MCH)
0.18u IOH

Second generation "Pinetrail"

45nm CPU/GPU/MCH
65nm I/O Bridge chip

That, and the notorious 945 chipset that sucks out some juice.

The mobile 945 used in the Netbooks don't use a lot(~5W), the Nettop version does(~20W), but that's the same thing used in the Core 2's.

Now if you are smart you wouldn't design your Netbook around the Nettop version. The Netbook version however is one of the least power using Northbridges out there.