Athlon 700 with Ti200 ok? Upgrade options? Price drop changes things.

[FluxCap]

I read the thread entitled Video Card for T-Bird 900? and learned a whole lot from useful links and thoughts from everyone. I currently have an Athlon 700, 327 mb of PC100 ram, Voodoo 5, 7200rpm 15.5 gig Maxtor HD, DSL connection...... and the video card is preventing me from playing some of the new games that come out. After reading the other thread it is obvious that I should go with a Ti 200 for now until I upgrade my processor. My question is do most/all Ti 200s have T&L capability?

Also I wanted to add. What brand would be a wise choice for a Ti 200? My friend is hopefully buying my Voodoo 5 today so I will be looking asap.

The reason I asked about T&L is because I plan on playing Battlefield 1942 for my multiplayer gaming and this seems to be a big feature needed. I play Civ 3 for my single player needs. These are the only games I will be playing for the rest of the year probably.

 

[AnAndAustin]

All GeForce cards offer T&L.

Basicly yeah, a GF3TI200 OR Rad8500LE are your best choices and both come in around $100. Your Ath700mhz won't get the most out of these gfx cards but you will get a big improvement over your Voodoo card which is slower than a GF2GTS. Without getting too deep, when buying a new card you really want 128MB. If you can afford the extra a GF4TI4200 is a very sweet card and a GF4TI4200-64MB would certainly be preferable to a GF3TI200 128MB or Rad8500LE 128MB.

Do upgrade your CPU, your mobo will almost certainly take a $50ish Duron1.2ghz even if it can't take an AthlonXP CPU (your PC100 certainly won't). Until then you will find you'll get more out of the GF3 by enabling AA and Aniso effects which help to use up some of the otherwise unused GPU power.

 

[AnAndAustin]

Here's an idea of how the cards stack up (albeit with top CPUs):

TomsHW Many gfx cards
TomsHW Rad9000 vs the rest
AnAndTech 4200 roundup showing the importance of 128MB

For an idea of where your perf will be check these out:

AnAndTech CPU Scaling Article 1
AnAndTech CPU Scaling Article 2

 

[FluxCap]

Thanks for the information. Where is a good site for Asus motherboard support? (As in where can I check for sure if my board will take a Duron 1.2 which is only about $37 by the way) The main ASUS site seems down.

Added: It looks like nobody has any bios updates for my mobo, it must be too old or something, this is sad.

I have an ASUS K7M mobo by the way.

 

[AnAndAustin]

Asus USA
Asus USA K7M mobo BIOS (Is yours a slotA?)

Try searching for K7M as well as trying the various links like 'Techiocal Ref' etc. If you are still stuck then contact Asus direct and enquire. If you are SlotA then you obviously need to upgrade your mobo to a SktA which all AMD CPUs now use.

 

[FluxCap]

Yes, I have a Slot A

Add: I emailed their support asking what CPUs it supports. Hopefully I will get an answer soon unless you think I shouldn't bother since I am way behind the times?

 

[AnAndAustin]

Well unfortunately IIRC the fastest SlotA CPU was round about the Athlon 700mhz. I'm afraid if you want to go higher you'll req a new mobo. What's you budget like?

Upgrading needn't be overly expensive, you can pick up a SktA mobo using KT266 or SiS735 for about $50ish and you should find some of these offer SDR (PC100) and DDR for later expansion. This would mean you could get a Duron 1.2ghz, HSF and SktA mobo for under $100 (and then sell off your old kit) and since the Durons use 100/200FSB your PC100 will do fine until you can afford to upgrade to DDR. Obviously you won't see huge improvements until you upgrade to a better gfx than your Voodoo, in fact if you can't afford the gfx card at the same time as the mobo and CPU then you must make sure the new SktA mobo has an AGP2.0 UNIVERSAL AGP slot so that the Voodoo will work in it.

 

[SickBeast]

The Radeon 8500 costs the SAME as the Ti200, and is a much better card. It will beat out a Ti500 and has far better image quality in both 2D and 3D. You will be CPU limited with that type of card though. You would probably be better off buying a used GF2GTS.

 

[FluxCap]

To be honest, my budget is not limited at all BUT I am trying to save for several purchases in the near future (house, ring,car) so I need to set a limit. I guess if I want to be smart and not get out of hand buying top end stuff I could spend about $350 on mobo, ram and cpu. What would be the best choice at this time for a stable mobo that I could upgrade easily to a better processor at the end of next year? I plan on just getting 512 mb of DDR ram now and not having to worry about it anymore. For video I might just get a Ti 4200 and then upgrade at the end of next year.

Several of my friends like the 8500 but I am still not satisfied with drivers from everything I have read. I know that the drivers are getting better and the 9700 is a step in the right direction but I can't justify a purchase for one of those at this time.

 

[AnAndAustin]

FluxCap, 4200 is definitely the best move, esp if you can afford to spend $350 for your mobo, RAM and CPU as you'll want to get the most out of them.

Everybody loves newegg.com so to use their prices:

CPU:
Duron 1.2ghz $42 (effectively Duron1400+ and a great o/c'er too)
AthlonXP1600+ $55 (meant to be very good o/c'er)
AthlonXP1800+ $79 (good o/c)
AthlonXP1900+ $89 (good o/c)
Standard HSF $10ish (not o/c'ing)
Volcano7+ HSF $20ish (great price/perf)

MOBO:
KT266A $72
KT333 $69
SiS735 $53
SiS745 $65
nF220 $84
nF415D $88

RAM:
256MB PC2700 $70-75
512MB DDR-PC2100 $99-121 (unsure of quality of $99 stuff)
512MB DDR-PC2700 $168

 

[AnAndAustin]

CPU: It makes a lot of sense to get an AthlonXP1800+ or XP1900+ for the price.

MOBO: KTxxx are very tweakable and the best choice for o/c'ing but they have the most quirks and are the least stable, KT333 is the best from Newegg but KT266A are as fast and should be cheaper. SiS735/745 are excellent for overall speed and stability, just don't buy PC2700 for them. nForce1 are great and stable (but poor o/c'er) if you want the great onboard LAN and Dolby 5.1 sound on the 415D version. The 220 is almost as fast but doesn't use nVidia's Dolby or dual RAM functionality (but that's useless anyway), the 220 does sport GF2MX onboard though (LOL).

 

[AnAndAustin]

RAM: Given the Newegg prices of RAM it seems 512MB of PC2100 is best but I'd suggest checking Crucial's prices, free shipping too. You gain very little with PC2700, PC2100 CL2.0 will be fine for o/c'ing the FSB.

OTHER: A worthwhile buy just to make sure all of your kit works without problems would be; Case & branded PSU $67-86 (Antec case and Antec PSU 300W-350W).

Overall XP1900+ with nF415D and 512MB PC2100 will be under $300 and is great considering you get Dolby 5.1 sound and good LAN. The other options are under $300 too and would involve either SiS735/745 for stability or KT333 for o/c'ability.

 

[FluxCap]

Cool, great info. I don't really O/C much anymore so I plan on leaving whatever I get at factory specified speed. What brand for nF415D would you suggest? Thanks again.

Also, I already have a decent case with a 300w PSU so do I really need to buy another one?

 

[AnAndAustin]

No, you SHOULD be fine with a decent case (ventilation and case mounts?) and 300W PSU. If you find you get probs then you can get a new case or PSU then anyway. If you are not o/c'ing then you should be more than fine.

There is no need to o/c CPUs as XP1800+ and above are very fast anyway and a GF3TI200 gains little once you get to Athlon1.4 / AthlonXP1600+ in any case. However it would be madness not to raise GF3TI200 or GF4TI4200 above their standard cloks, these 2 cards are intentionally underclocked far below their true potential to promote sales of the more expensive cards which are only on average 10% faster (GF3TI500 and GF4TI4600 respectfully) when these babies are o/c'ed.

 

[AnAndAustin]

As for mobo brand, it is the chipset which dictates nearly all features, o/c'ability, quirks and speed so look out for the following nForce chipsets:

215: Sound & LAN.
220: Sound, LAN and GF2MX.
415: Sound & LAN plus dual RAM feature.
420: Sound, LAN and GF2MX plus dual RAM feature.

Perf-wise these are all the same, the Dual RAM feature is pretty pointless, you need 2 sticks of DDR RAM to use it and you only get a boost when using the onboard GF2MX. 'D' at the end of the model number denotes true Dolby 5.1 sound onboard but be sure you get a true nVidia implimentation of it. Rem that nForce2 is due out very soon and should give extra speed, features as well as tweaking and o/c'ing too!

 

[FluxCap]

I really don't know much about o/cing video cards, is the success rate high on 4200s?

So the onboard sound is nice? New boards coming out soon? Decisions , decisions...now I am not sure if I will buy now or wait, haha

 

[SickBeast]

4200s are hella good for overclocking.

I stand by my vote for a Radeon 8500 though. All of the kinks have been wrung out of the new drivers, and they have been consistently releasing new drivers every couple of months.

 

[AnAndAustin]

The only thing I can rec waiting on at this moment in time is nForce2 for SktA mobos, but even then you are likely to find them too expensive and will be better off with an alternate mobo unless you don't mind waiting a few months for full info, availability and prices to drop a bit. If you aren't in to o/c'ing then nForce or SiS are certainly the best current options otherwise go VIA KT. nForce sound on xxxD chipsets is better than SB Live (to keep it all simple). The LAN is also very good and uses very little CPU power.

 

[AnAndAustin]

O/C'ing a 4200 is 99% dependent upon the type of RAM it uses. Here's a guide to the vast majority of cards (nothing is 100% certain):

4200 - 64MB Standard=250/500 RAM=3.6nsTSOP O/C=300/600
4200-128MB Standard=250/444 RAM=4.0nsTSOP O/C=300/550
4400-128MB Standard=275/550 RAM=3.6nsBGA O/C=300/620
4600-128MB Standard=300/650 RAM=3.3nsBGA O/C=300/700

There is the odd 4200-128MB which use 4.5nsTSOP and this is stuck at around 300/460, but there are enhanced 4200-128MB which use the longer design from 4400/4600 and 3.3nsBGA and o/c to 300/640 or 300/700, these are the 'Asus 4200 Deluxe' and 'Suma 4200 Special Edition'. Anyway to put it simple YES the o/c'ability of any 4200 card is great and even from the cheapest 4200-128MB cards expect GF4TI4400 perf. Do note a 4200-128MB at 300/550 is better than a 4200-64MB at 300/600.

 

[FluxCap]

Ok, I think I might have come to a decision.

I probably won't wait for the newer motherboards because of price and because Battlefield 1942 will be out in a few weeks. So, this is what I am thinking.

1. Keep the same case and 300w PSU
2. Buy one stick of Crucial - 512mb PC2100
3. Buy Gainward GF4 TI 4200
4. Buy Athlon XP 1900+ or 2000+ with possibly a better than standard HSF
5. Buy a nF415D MB that has the "true implementation" of Dolby sound. (Built-in sound is sounding very intriguing to me since I have an old sound card I want to trash. The LAN capability sounds nice as well because I have a DSL network set up at my condo)

So I guess my only realy question is which MB to buy? I want a quality one with a good upgrade potential. Thanks for the help.

 

[Emultra]

You need a new computer. New motherboard, new processor, new graphics card, new everything.

 

[AnAndAustin]

No disrespect intended but isn't it funny when people don't bother flicking through what's already been said and just stick their own random thoughts in to the thread.

Anyway, FluxCap that's a very wise, fast and cost effective selection of components. HSF for the AthlonXP1900+/2000+, well there are many good choices but in terms of cost effective and great cooling power the TT Volcano7+ on its medium manual setting is excellent. IIRC other good coolers are Thermalright AX-7, Alpha PAL 8045/8942, ThermR SLK800, Swift MCX462 and Papst (26cfm & 19dB pretty quiet). To be honest if you aren't o/c'ing then any standard cooler certified for XP2000+ (or higher pref) will suit you just fine, and should be quieter too. Here's some links:

DansData
Frosty
CoolerGuys
Overclockers 373

 

[AnAndAustin]

To be honest any manu offering the nF415D (215D is just as good and should be cheaper) with any particular features you want will be more than fine, just be sure the Dolby is by nVidia chips and not a 3rd party card. If a big brand (Abit, Asus etc) doesn't cost much extra then go for it, otherwise don't worry, one chipset is pretty much identical to another anyway. So have a look at what's on offer from the place you are getting your other hw and weigh it all up, at least you can save on shipping with it all in one order. I'd rec Newegg as everybody only speaks good of them.

 

[FluxCap]

What do you think about the ABIT NV7-133R ATX Motherboard? Newegg has it for $88.

Stupid question warning.... Will my Maxtor HD work with the newer boards?

 

[Emultra]

Vet inte. Men du kan ju alltid prova, det kanske går.