Athlon 64 3400+ review and Memory

[stardust]

I just read anand's review on the new 3200+ A64 and I just noticed that the non-FX processors have single channel memory while the FX has dual channel. The benchies I see comparing the FX with the non-FX don't impress me. Is dual channel memory really that insignificant?

Since the prescott hasn't been released yet, how do you think the non-FX 64's would stack up (in terms of memory type impacting the benchmarking scores) with a dual channel Prescott? What I mean is, just comparing on how memory and FSB differences impact the 2 CPU's (prescott and non-fx), which is more efficient?

Should I switch to AMD now, or wait for the decisive release of the 32-bit Prescott with 533fsb? If I must wait, I would expect some mind blowing advantages on the intel side.

 

[Duvie]

If you are a gamer I don't think you will see it...besides the more performance will come in 800fsb mode chips and not 533fsb....Also rumors are the 533fsb 2.8ghz prescott version will not have HT so there in its own it is a waste unless you are hopelessly stuck in win98 world....


NOw if you multimedia and multitask I think the advantage already exist in HT....Even at 3.2ghz the intel stil owns that area and showed that against the 3400+ athlon in some of the reviews I have read by beting it in a majority of apps and most of them were not even HT enabled....


gaming is hands down owned by the athlon fx models and even the 64 models above 3200+....If you fall in this category just go that route...

Dual channel does make a difference as seen in these new reviews where the 3400+ does not beat the fx51 in many of the apps that are bandwidth dependant..the question is do you run those apps and does it justify the premium of the fx chip....

 

[stardust]

Thank for your info!

Well I know I cannot afford the FX, but with the 3200+ falling below $300 I was very tempted. I read the athlon 64 has an integrated memory controller, reducing latency and is very helpful for gamers, but would raw bandwidth of new generation games rob the 64 non-fx of any precious fps compared to the prescott? I do very basic multimedia and intermediate photoshoping with files going as big as 150-200mb. I notice a considerable lag when using photoshop with lots of different effects and my current P4 @ 3.4 ghz, would the 64 3200+ be even slower? But like you said, I am more interested in gaming and I really would like a processor that will benefit me. I just hope the prescott doesn't have any mind blowing performance advantages after I purchase the athlon64.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Duvie, don't just hang on the Game thing. Anand's own review shows Workstations and business benchies in favour of the 3400 A64 over all.

As for multimedia, the 3.2c is:

9% faster in the Divx test
19% faster in the 3dsmax
8% in lightwave

Than the 3400+

But I liked the price performance charts at the end of the review (I like to congratulate the team for that BTW). It's 2.8C and 3000+ all the way.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Duvie, don't just hang on the Game thing. Anand's own review shows Workstations and business benchies in favour of the 3400 A64 over all.

As for multimedia, the 3.2c is:

9% faster in the Divx test
19% faster in the 3dsmax
8% in lightwave

Than the 3400+

But I liked the price performance charts at the end of the review (I like to congratulate the team for that BTW). It's 2.8C and 3000+ all the way.

I guess that depends on the reviews which you need to look at many of them to pick the average...i see the 3.2ghz win some business and many workstation apps on other forums......


Also relooking at the toms hardware review it looks as if the p4 3.2ghz will still be pretty close to dead heat with a 3600+ variety when and if it emerges on a 130nm process.....

I think the 3.4ghz prescott will gain on some of those leads and take back some of the test the 3400+ won as well as tom's 3600+ variety....

gaming is really the main difference as it is quite overwhelming in the athlon64 favor....That is what I mean...If you say non gaming it is really a lot closer but overall it is still in more the favor of p4 when you test the HT factor..we all know that HT has little to absolute no effect in gaming apps...

 

[stardust]

I read some more reviews now and it seems the 3400+ never exceeds 217FSB with 11 multipliers. Does this mean that it would be impossible using my PC4000 memory with a timing of 9*250 (2.25ghz) ? Would that be way too much stress for the CPU?

 

[poisondeathray]

Originally posted by: stardust
I read some more reviews now and it seems the 3400+ never exceeds 217FSB with 11 multipliers. Does this mean that it would be impossible using my PC4000 memory with a timing of 9*250 (2.25ghz) ? Would that be way too much stress for the CPU?

I think the current crop of motherboards are the limiting factor; most have not achieved over 230 FSB. Those based on the VIA chipset lack PCI/AGP lock and in some reviews, they say the sata controller is the limiting factor. X-bit commented on a limitation of this particular clawhammer core/stepping (CPU). So yes it would be impossible now for 250FSB.

 

[myocardia]

Stardust, the Athlon 64's own the P4C's in gaming right now, but, you have to remember that the scores they post on sites like Anandtech are with no OCing at all. I would have to imagine, though, that with your 2.6C running at 3.4Ghz, you more than likely have at least as much processing power as the A64's, because you're running a much higher fsb. We all know how important fsb is to performance, right?

 

[pelikan]

Originally posted by: poisondeathray

Originally posted by: stardust
I read some more reviews now and it seems the 3400+ never exceeds 217FSB with 11 multipliers. Does this mean that it would be impossible using my PC4000 memory with a timing of 9*250 (2.25ghz) ? Would that be way too much stress for the CPU?

I think the current crop of motherboards are the limiting factor; most have not achieved over 230 FSB. Those based on the VIA chipset lack PCI/AGP lock and in some reviews, they say the sata controller is the limiting factor. X-bit commented on a limitation of this particular clawhammer core/stepping (CPU). So yes it would be impossible now for 250FSB.

Actually lots of people are running well over 250 FSB on NF3 boards.

 

[stardust]

Originally posted by: myocardia
Stardust, the Athlon 64's own the P4C's in gaming right now, but, you have to remember that the scores they post on sites like Anandtech are with no OCing at all. I would have to imagine, though, that with your 2.6C running at 3.4Ghz, you more than likely have at least as much processing power as the A64's, because you're running a much higher fsb. We all know how important fsb is to performance, right?

I'm getting bored with my current system and a friend has offered to buy it for a good price. This is only one of my computers as I have another Shuttle 65 small form that has a 2.6C in it that does a stable 255fsb with 1.55V. It has a 9800PRO graphics card in it so I'm not lacking in fast computers. My interest in the A64 is pretty high as I would like the try out another AMD system since my tragedy with the 1800+ Palemo. (spelling..) I want to see first hand how much effect memory latency has on games. The athlon64 has a definite latency advantage over current P4's with its integrated memory controller. Even my friend who works with intel's testing department can agree with me. He is still currently testing 2 athlon64 FX's along with the upcoming P4EE 3.4ghz. He hasn't told me whether the FX's were FX53 or FX51.. but I doubt its the former.

 

[stardust]

Originally posted by: pelikan

Originally posted by: poisondeathray

Originally posted by: stardust
I read some more reviews now and it seems the 3400+ never exceeds 217FSB with 11 multipliers. Does this mean that it would be impossible using my PC4000 memory with a timing of 9*250 (2.25ghz) ? Would that be way too much stress for the CPU?

I think the current crop of motherboards are the limiting factor; most have not achieved over 230 FSB. Those based on the VIA chipset lack PCI/AGP lock and in some reviews, they say the sata controller is the limiting factor. X-bit commented on a limitation of this particular clawhammer core/stepping (CPU). So yes it would be impossible now for 250FSB.

Actually lots of people are running well over 250 FSB on NF3 boards.

my heart is broken over the nforce 3 pelikan , im eagerly awaiting the nforce 3 250.. it hurts me to see the nforce so low in the benchmarking tests...

maybe 250 mite be nvidia's next lucky number

 

[orion7144]

Originally posted by: stardust

Originally posted by: myocardia
Stardust, the Athlon 64's own the P4C's in gaming right now, but, you have to remember that the scores they post on sites like Anandtech are with no OCing at all. I would have to imagine, though, that with your 2.6C running at 3.4Ghz, you more than likely have at least as much processing power as the A64's, because you're running a much higher fsb. We all know how important fsb is to performance, right?

I'm getting bored with my current system and a friend has offered to buy it for a good price. This is only one of my computers as I have another Shuttle 65 small form that has a 2.6C in it that does a stable 255fsb with 1.55V. It has a 9800PRO graphics card in it so I'm not lacking in fast computers. My interest in the A64 is pretty high as I would like the try out another AMD system since my tragedy with the 1800+ Palemo. (spelling..) I want to see first hand how much effect memory latency has on games. The athlon64 has a definite latency advantage over current P4's with its integrated memory controller. Even my friend who works with intel's testing department can agree with me. He is still currently testing 2 athlon64 FX's along with the upcoming P4EE 3.4ghz. He hasn't told me whether the FX's were FX53 or FX51.. but I doubt its the former.

I too would like to try the A64 however, I can not justifie the cost at this time. With my stable of 2.4C's there is not much out there that can touch them.

As far as the gaiming benchmarks that are all over the place, I would like to see these "review" sites kick it up a notch and have multiple apps running while they do the FPS tests. I think that the gap between the A64 and a P4C would shrink. I like the fact that I can play MP2 or Splinter Cell while I have a DC client running and doing some encoding. Or better yet downloading your digital cam corder via firewire to Pinacle Studio (sp) while playing MP2 (I just got done doing this). I had the video on my camera (about 30min worth) just the way I wanted it burned to a DVD. I had Pinacle get the video a do a direct burn to DVD. All while I was playing. This is something I could not do on either the Athon XP system or non HT P4 I used to have w/o loosing any game play ability.

 

[pelikan]

Originally posted by: stardust

Originally posted by: pelikan

Originally posted by: poisondeathray

Originally posted by: stardust
I read some more reviews now and it seems the 3400+ never exceeds 217FSB with 11 multipliers. Does this mean that it would be impossible using my PC4000 memory with a timing of 9*250 (2.25ghz) ? Would that be way too much stress for the CPU?

I think the current crop of motherboards are the limiting factor; most have not achieved over 230 FSB. Those based on the VIA chipset lack PCI/AGP lock and in some reviews, they say the sata controller is the limiting factor. X-bit commented on a limitation of this particular clawhammer core/stepping (CPU). So yes it would be impossible now for 250FSB.

Actually lots of people are running well over 250 FSB on NF3 boards.

my heart is broken over the nforce 3 pelikan , im eagerly awaiting the nforce 3 250.. it hurts me to see the nforce so low in the benchmarking tests...

maybe 250 mite be nvidia's next lucky number

I am also disappointed that the nforce 3 is a little slower than the via. It does more than make up the difference in its overclocking ability if you've got the ram for it. But I don't want to buy the slower chipset. And I don't like via's limited overclocking abilities. So I'm waiting for the nforce 3 250 too.

I wonder why Anandtech used an Nforce 3 pro board for the FX-51 in the 3400+ review. From what I've been reading it sounds like the performance difference between that and the via is pretty big with the FX-51.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: orion7144

Originally posted by: stardust

Originally posted by: myocardia
Stardust, the Athlon 64's own the P4C's in gaming right now, but, you have to remember that the scores they post on sites like Anandtech are with no OCing at all. I would have to imagine, though, that with your 2.6C running at 3.4Ghz, you more than likely have at least as much processing power as the A64's, because you're running a much higher fsb. We all know how important fsb is to performance, right?

I'm getting bored with my current system and a friend has offered to buy it for a good price. This is only one of my computers as I have another Shuttle 65 small form that has a 2.6C in it that does a stable 255fsb with 1.55V. It has a 9800PRO graphics card in it so I'm not lacking in fast computers. My interest in the A64 is pretty high as I would like the try out another AMD system since my tragedy with the 1800+ Palemo. (spelling..) I want to see first hand how much effect memory latency has on games. The athlon64 has a definite latency advantage over current P4's with its integrated memory controller. Even my friend who works with intel's testing department can agree with me. He is still currently testing 2 athlon64 FX's along with the upcoming P4EE 3.4ghz. He hasn't told me whether the FX's were FX53 or FX51.. but I doubt its the former.

I too would like to try the A64 however, I can not justifie the cost at this time. With my stable of 2.4C's there is not much out there that can touch them.

As far as the gaiming benchmarks that are all over the place, I would like to see these "review" sites kick it up a notch and have multiple apps running while they do the FPS tests. I think that the gap between the A64 and a P4C would shrink. I like the fact that I can play MP2 or Splinter Cell while I have a DC client running and doing some encoding. Or better yet downloading your digital cam corder via firewire to Pinacle Studio (sp) while playing MP2 (I just got done doing this). I had the video on my camera (about 30min worth) just the way I wanted it burned to a DVD. I had Pinacle get the video a do a direct burn to DVD. All while I was playing. This is something I could not do on either the Athon XP system or non HT P4 I used to have w/o loosing any game play ability.

Wait a minute we are all single task users....Right??? I mean none of these respected sites test this stuff eventhough it is the backbone of HT in the P4....I mean we talk about Tom's neutering the a64 with ram timings and anandtech using an nforce3 pro board, but what about neutering a p4 board by never running multitasking apps....

It is the one redeemable fact of that suspect pcmark2004 is the multitasking...At least they tried....


Hey orion I am going to run some ut2003demo and then run it while encoding an app or downloading some dv camcorder stuff via firewire....I wonder if having 2 harddrives makes a difference here as I can capture to the backup storage drive....

 

[pelikan]

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: orion7144

Originally posted by: stardust

Originally posted by: myocardia
Stardust, the Athlon 64's own the P4C's in gaming right now, but, you have to remember that the scores they post on sites like Anandtech are with no OCing at all. I would have to imagine, though, that with your 2.6C running at 3.4Ghz, you more than likely have at least as much processing power as the A64's, because you're running a much higher fsb. We all know how important fsb is to performance, right?

I'm getting bored with my current system and a friend has offered to buy it for a good price. This is only one of my computers as I have another Shuttle 65 small form that has a 2.6C in it that does a stable 255fsb with 1.55V. It has a 9800PRO graphics card in it so I'm not lacking in fast computers. My interest in the A64 is pretty high as I would like the try out another AMD system since my tragedy with the 1800+ Palemo. (spelling..) I want to see first hand how much effect memory latency has on games. The athlon64 has a definite latency advantage over current P4's with its integrated memory controller. Even my friend who works with intel's testing department can agree with me. He is still currently testing 2 athlon64 FX's along with the upcoming P4EE 3.4ghz. He hasn't told me whether the FX's were FX53 or FX51.. but I doubt its the former.

I too would like to try the A64 however, I can not justifie the cost at this time. With my stable of 2.4C's there is not much out there that can touch them.

As far as the gaiming benchmarks that are all over the place, I would like to see these "review" sites kick it up a notch and have multiple apps running while they do the FPS tests. I think that the gap between the A64 and a P4C would shrink. I like the fact that I can play MP2 or Splinter Cell while I have a DC client running and doing some encoding. Or better yet downloading your digital cam corder via firewire to Pinacle Studio (sp) while playing MP2 (I just got done doing this). I had the video on my camera (about 30min worth) just the way I wanted it burned to a DVD. I had Pinacle get the video a do a direct burn to DVD. All while I was playing. This is something I could not do on either the Athon XP system or non HT P4 I used to have w/o loosing any game play ability.

Wait a minute we are all single task users....Right??? I mean none of these respected sites test this stuff eventhough it is the backbone of HT in the P4....I mean we talk about Tom's neutering the a64 with ram timings and anandtech using an nforce3 pro board, but what about neutering a p4 board by never running multitasking apps....

It is the one redeemable fact of that suspect pcmark2004 is the multitasking...At least they tried....


Hey orion I am going to run some ut2003demo and then run it while encoding an app or downloading some dv camcorder stuff via firewire....I wonder if having 2 harddrives makes a difference here as I can capture to the backup storage drive....

Yeah, that's a good point about HT. I've never had a cpu with HT but I've heard it gives a system a super quick feel.

 

[edmundoab]

..and a quick price hike

 

[stardust]

I think my pruchasing decision lays on whether or not I can use my existing PC4000 memory at full speed and low latency.. I tend not to multitask with so many programs and I don't think the preformance hit is that great.

 

[orion7144]

Originally posted by: edmundoab
..and a quick price hike

have you looked at the prices lately? A P4 2.4C and a mother board is only $240 and a barton with mb is roughly the same and doesn't even come close in performance.

 

[pelikan]

Originally posted by: orion7144

Originally posted by: edmundoab
..and a quick price hike

have you looked at the prices lately? A P4 2.4C and a mother board is only $240 and a barton with mb is roughly the same and doesn't even come close in performance.

\

A Barton and MB is $180. and very similar in performance.

 

[orion7144]

Originally posted by: pelikan

Originally posted by: orion7144

Originally posted by: edmundoab
..and a quick price hike

have you looked at the prices lately? A P4 2.4C and a mother board is only $240 and a barton with mb is roughly the same and doesn't even come close in performance.

\

A Barton and MB is $180. and very similar in performance.

"Similar" running one app at a time!

 

[Cygni]

HT is way WAY overrated. Ive built 2 systems on P4-C's and have yet to see this amazing multi-threading boost over similar Athlons people talk about...

 

[Duvie]

Edit: I would like to apologize to stardust for this getting off topic....to the ill informed above go post in the HT topic stuck at top of board....

Wait until you see my barton 3200+ review doing what I did with my 2.6@3.2c in multitasking....It is night and day....Quite laughable actually beyond even the point that the barton 3200+ was a joke of a rating...

What did you test in it??? I would be interested to hear it and be careful as I have ran a lot of the HT enabled apps and now on a top of the line barton as well....You have to be an idiot not to notice the sizeable difference...


Edit: Overrated!!! LOL... You actually have to be talked about in reviews and rarely do they even test or talk about its effects in multi-tasking....Its actually underrated....

If you think 22% increase in TMPGenc, one of the top of line mpeg encoders of entusiasts is overrated then you expect more then what was even ambitiously declared by INtel marketing....If you think 40% increase in seti@home unit is nothing....If you think 19% increase in cinebench 2003 is nothing....If you think 17% increase in POV-Ray v3.5 Raytracing is nothing....If you think double digit increase in dvdshrink is nothing...

It is clear to me you probably ran it on gaming apps which most know are not smt enabled and in single app use shows no gains....ONe would have to look at multitasking there to see some benefits....

 

[Cygni]

If you think 22% increase in TMPGenc, one of the top of line mpeg encoders of entusiasts is overrated then you expect more then what was even ambitiously declared by INtel marketing....If you think 40% increase in seti@home unit is nothing....If you think 19% increase in cinebench 2003 is nothing....If you think 17% increase in POV-Ray v3.5 Raytracing is nothing....If you think double digit increase in dvdshrink is nothing...

It is clear to me you probably ran it on gaming apps which most know are not smt enabled and in single app use shows no gains....ONe would have to look at multitasking there to see some benefits....

Woh there Turbo, take a chill pill. I didnt insult your family, i said that I believe HT is overrated, its called PERSPECTIVE.

Anyway, I think you partly showed why I think the way I do. The boosts in performance are directly related to it being implemented in softwear, and even then, modest gains are almost strictly related to encoding and decoding. As you said yourself in the sticky thread, "Basic users HT wont change your life...."

HT is overrated in my eyes. People on forums all over the internet jump up and down about the feature, and while i agree that it is certainly an interesting piece of technology and definitly offers very good performance gains in many applications, it is nothing to base your next computer purchase solely upon. I also see it as a fix for a problem introduced by the P4, in the first place, as opposed to a long term advance in computer technology.

 

[Duvie]

Actually that quote was to a part that was written before all the multitasking test were done....Also fter that review I begin to find more and more applications spaning business, scientific,rendering, and encoding/decoding...so it is more...


What is the fix??? What have you read that I haven't??? You don't think AMD doesn't suffer from same thing and could benefit from the same type of advancement??? I don't see how that is the case unless the barton 3200+ xp in multitasking is really that big of a piece of shite!!!!

I am confident the same multitasking stuff the barton 3200+ did poorly on would do also pretty poorly on and A64 system as well.....Just following basic increases in speed and performance from Bartons to A64's I don't see it doing much better....

Ofcourse my multitasking test was a bit more geared to multimedia but I will try to add some gaming plus encoding (which many around here say they do or would like)...gaming plus seti or F&H....gaming plus burning DVDs....

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Duvie
Actually that quote was to a part that was written before all the multitasking test were done....Also fter that review I begin to find more and more applications spaning business, scientific,rendering, and encoding/decoding...so it is more...


What is the fix??? What have you read that I haven't??? You don't think AMD doesn't suffer from same thing and could benefit from the same type of advancement??? I don't see how that is the case unless the barton 3200+ xp in multitasking is really that big of a piece of shite!!!!

I am confident the same multitasking stuff the barton 3200+ did poorly on would do also pretty poorly on and A64 system as well.....Just following basic increases in speed and performance from Bartons to A64's I don't see it doing much better....

Ofcourse my multitasking test was a bit more geared to multimedia but I will try to add some gaming plus encoding (which many around here say they do or would like)...gaming plus seti or F&H....gaming plus burning DVDs....

Exactly, Duvie, most of us around here don't spend much, if any, time encoding. But, I'm very interested in finding out how well I'm going to be able to fold proteins at the same time I'm playing a game, like UT2k3 or BF192, etc. That's actually the reason my next upgrade may very well be a P4, instead of an A64 or an Opteron. I don't want to go back to the dark side, but if I can run 2 cpu-intensive apps at the same time with them, I definitely will.