ATGarage: Please decide what my next car will be! Details within

[Mojoed]

Woah woah, before you vote, please read the details!

2000 Honda Accord EX

The Good:
Loaded: leather, V6, auto, spoiler, sunroof, nice wheels, mint condition. Not even a single parking lot ding! Literally looks like it was just driven off the lot. It drives great. No rattles or strange noises. Engine is strong and transmission is smooth. All maintenance records included, recent timing belt/water pump.

The Bad:
240k miles. (ouch) Female owner claims the vast majority of miles are highway, commuting 2 hours each way, 3 days a week.

Asking price is $4500, although I think I could get it for $3800-$4000.

----

1999 Buick LeSabre

The Good:
Owned by a very old guy. The guy looks like a fossil. Oil and brakes changed every 1500 miles. (wtf) 3800 V6 Series II engine. 79k miles. Garaged and only driven in the rain a few times ever. (another wtf, but I believed the guy, bad eyes). Like the Accord, this car is totally mint and even smells new. Loaded, everything works. Drives and shifts awesome. One owner. All maintenance records included.

The Bad:
Grampsmobile, although that doesn't bother me really. Price.

Asking price is $4000 which is above kbb. I may be able to get it for $3200-$3400ish.


My primary goal here is to get the car which will cost me the least in repairs over the next 3-5 years. I do not care what others think of my vehicle (i.e. I wouldn't mind driving a gramps car). Given my criteria, which would ATGarage choose?

Thanks in advance!

 

[mwmorph]

Looks like the Accord was really taken care of but so was the Lesabre. I'd personally go with the Lesabre. Over 200k miles and OI get very hesistant if it doesn't have a engine and transmission known to last forever (like the Toyota 1UZ-FE and 4 speed trans, friends have 300-500k on them and I've never read of a engine or trans overhaul, even in forums).

The Hondas of that era with the 3.0LV6 had some automatic trans issues and the 2000 V6 Accord was auto only IIRC. Something involving the clutch/brake nuts without thread lock compound.

The low mileage Lesabre would probably last longer and require much fewer repairs outside of wear and age items that would be common to both like gaskets and O2 sensors.

AFAIK, the Lesabre powertrain was bulletproof, the 3800 series V6 being one the last generations in a long line of for the Buick pushrod V6 family.

edit: here's the information
http://www.hondacarforum.com/h...d-odyssey-prelude.html
http://www.roadandtravel.com/n...2002/hondawarranty.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H...#North_American_Accord

Despite the Accord's reputation for reliability, the V6 models were plagued by transmission failures and were even included in class action law suits against the company (4 cylinder models were also affected, but not to the same extent). This caused the Honda Corporation to extend the warranties for the 1998 through 2002 models to 7 years or 100,000 miles (160,000 km). Yet no formal recall occurred. In Canada, recall letters were sent out to owners who fell within a certain VIN range, this warranty was later re-extended for some owners to 7 years 11 months in length.

 

[Q]

LeSabres are so comfortable.

 

[Mojoed]

Nice post mwmorph, I appreciate the effort and links! :beer:

Do you think, since most of the miles on the Accord were highway, that it would have far less wear and tear on the transmission than the average 2000 Accord? I guess what I mean is, if someone is doing a 2 hour highway commute over and over and over, the transmission isn't shifting much at all.

For example, would 20 miles in stop and go city driving wear the transmission more than a non-stop 120 mile highway trip?

 

[herm0016]

the LeSabre is a great car. great engine, great drive train, great quality, easy to drive, enough power to do what you want.

i have a 99 Olds 88. same internals, and have 120k on it, i have never done anything except wear items and it drives like new still and gets 30mpg on the hwy. handles snow and ice better than most too.

I plan on keeping mine for a long time. bought it with 72k on it.

 

[ChaosDivine]

Hondas are a little over-rated. +1 for the LeSabre.

 

[SparkyJJO]

I would be EXTREMELY hesitant to buy any vehicle with over 200k miles on it. That is a lot of miles for a car. I wouldn't count on a car with that many miles to give trouble-free service over the next 3-5 years. I'd almost be more worried if nothing major had broken yet, because that may mean it is ready to majorly break soon

Of those two, the lesabre is probably the better choice. Lower miles, still taken care of (almost by too much lol, brakes that often, wow).

 

[Bignate603]

I'd only buy a car with 240k on it if it was dirt cheap. $4500 seems way too high for that Accord. The Buick isn't anything thrilling but the drivetrains on most of those GM vehicles with the pushrod V6s. The Buick 3800 series engine was considered one of the best engines of the 20th century by Wards.
Ward's 10 best (scroll to bottom for best of the 20th century)

Out of the two I'd pick the Buick. It will be cheaper to buy, you know it was meticulously maintained, and it has quite a bit more life left in it.

 

[brblx]

i wouldn't touch an eleven year old buick with a ten foot pole, but of course that would just be unfounded anti-GM bias according to most on this forum.

keep looking.

edit- the fact that that engine list has a wankel and some other highly questionable choices on it pretty much invalidates the rest of it. imo.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Talk down the price and go with the LeSabre. To be honest it doesn't even seem like a contest to me.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: brblx
i wouldn't touch an eleven year old buick with a ten foot pole, but of course that would just be unfounded anti-GM bias according to most on this forum.

keep looking.

edit- the fact that that engine list has a wankel and some other highly questionable choices on it pretty much invalidates the rest of it. imo.

I've owned multiple GM vehicles from the 90's, never had one die on me. I've got a '97 Chevy with a pushrod V6 out in my driveway right now and it's required less maintanence than any other car I've owned before. I'll admit that the interior trim doesn't age gracefully but they have all had amazingly solid drivetrains. If there is one thing that GM knows its pushrod engines.

 

[CrackRabbit]

LeSabre all the way. My GFs old Buick Regal had nearly 200000 miles when we got rid of it.
Transmission failed at about 160000, but I don't know how well it was maintained before she got it.

 

[brblx]

Originally posted by: Bignate603

I've owned multiple GM vehicles from the 90's, never had one die on me. I've got a '97 Chevy with a pushrod V6 out in my driveway right now and it's required less maintanence than any other car I've owned before. I'll admit that the interior trim doesn't age gracefully but they have all had amazingly solid drivetrains. If there is one thing that GM knows its pushrod engines.

the 3.8 and its derivatives are definitely decent engines. aside from probably needing an intake reseal, that engine probably won't need any work. same with the trans.

i worry more about the rest of the car. from personal experience and otherwise, i can say that engine accessories on GM's (alternators, p/s pumps, even water pumps) seem to drop like flies starting at about 100k. but maybe i'm being a bit unfair since most of what i've replaced has been on the older four cylinders and not the v6's.

 

[schneiderguy]

$4.5k for an accord with 240k miles? I have a 98 accord with 80k miles that I got for 5k. It's only the 4 cylinder model but still

And yes, the automatic transmissions on Accords of that gen are crap.

 

[ChaosDivine]

Originally posted by: brblx
i worry more about the rest of the car. from personal experience and otherwise, i can say that engine accessories on GM's (alternators, p/s pumps, even water pumps) seem to drop like flies starting at about 100k. but maybe i'm being a bit unfair since most of what i've replaced has been on the older four cylinders and not the v6's.

Don't know about the V6s, but I've had the alternator, water pump and ABS module go on my spare 98 Cavalier around 88K. No biggie to fix, just a little annoying.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: brblx

Originally posted by: Bignate603

I've owned multiple GM vehicles from the 90's, never had one die on me. I've got a '97 Chevy with a pushrod V6 out in my driveway right now and it's required less maintanence than any other car I've owned before. I'll admit that the interior trim doesn't age gracefully but they have all had amazingly solid drivetrains. If there is one thing that GM knows its pushrod engines.

the 3.8 and its derivatives are definitely decent engines. aside from probably needing an intake reseal, that engine probably won't need any work. same with the trans.

i worry more about the rest of the car. from personal experience and otherwise, i can say that engine accessories on GM's (alternators, p/s pumps, even water pumps) seem to drop like flies starting at about 100k. but maybe i'm being a bit unfair since most of what i've replaced has been on the older four cylinders and not the v6's.

I can't speak from personal experience about the 4 cylinders, I've only owned the 6 cylinders. I did have to replace the starter on the GM car I currently have at 130k. However, parts are ridiculously cheap (AC Delco replacement is $150 on rock auto). After owning it for 3 years and it only needing a starter I think that's pretty good.

Besides that I've done normal maintenance you would expect, fluid changes, replacing filters, etc.

 

[bruceb]

I agree. The 3800 engine from GM is very good, except for the possibility of intake manifold coolant leaks. These happen around 100K miles or so on the OE gaskets. There are newer gaskets out that are supposed to last much longer. GM in their wisdom, decided to route the EGR thru the plastic intake manifold. That extra heat, combined with the use of a non metal gasket (as originally built) were the cause of those failures. The replacement manifolds and gaskets are designed to hold up much better. Also, watch the radiator on that car. With age, you will see leaks at the seams where the coolant tanks mount to the radiator core. Again, caused by use of plastics. GM cars of that year, had a weak 4th gear input shaft in the automatic tranny. When it fails, you will have all the other gears except for 4th (overdrive) .. This has been remedied on the rebuilt units and the shaft can be replaced by itself if you so desire, if / when it fails. (my tranny was done 2 years ago,around 150K on a 1999 Grand Prix, intake gasket at around 120K, about 4 years back, just did the radiator yesterday at 190K)

 

[Mojoed]

I am continually amazed at the collective knowledge of ATGarage. Sounds like a slam dunk for the LeSabre!

Oh and bruceb, from reading your posts, you sound like one hell of an experienced mechanic. I'm blown away by your knowledge. :beer:

 

[geno]

Originally posted by: Mojoed

My primary goal here is to get the car which will cost me the least in repairs over the next 3-5 years.

In that case (esp if you're planning on keeping it for up to 5 years) I would steer away from the car with 240K miles, even if it is a Honda.

 

[brblx]

Originally posted by: Bignate603
However, parts are ridiculously cheap (AC Delco replacement is $150 on rock auto). After owning it for 3 years and it only needing a starter I think that's pretty good.

most GM parts are indeed ludicrously cheap. i put a window regulator (complete with motor) in a malibu the other day that costed 58 friggin' bucks from the dealer. i was floored by that.

the prices for OEM parts do tend to go up as the car gets older, though.

 

[bruceb]

I just keep up with the trends with a sub to Motor Magazine, which is geared toward the repairs shops. Minor work I do myself, time permitting. Major repairs, like swapping the tranny goes to a shop. I have a good tranny shop right in town, where the police send their
cars when they need trans work. The issues I mentioned above, have all occurred on my car.

 

[fleabag]

even though I'm partial to Hondas and don't like Buicks, in this case I'd go with the Buick.

 

[boomhower]

I wouldn't touch anything with 200k+ for that much. Beyond the engine and transmission you everything else that is going to start going bad: CV joints, window regulators, and various giizmo's.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

i wouldn't touch a 10 year old GM car with anything in this world. a 1999 GM car won't last you till 2014-2015, by then repairs will prob cost u more than the price u paid for the car.

keep looking...

the accord, if the owner is true about highway miles, then the tranny should be fine. 90% of those 240k miles will be in 5th gear without the tranny doing any work.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
i wouldn't touch a 10 year old GM car with anything in this world. a 1999 GM car won't last you till 2014-2015, by then repairs will prob cost u more than the price u paid for the car.

keep looking...

the accord, if the owner is true about highway miles, then the tranny should be fine. 90% of those 240k miles will be in 5th gear without the tranny doing any work.

You are absolutely delusional.