ATF Raids Store for Gun Owner Names, Overrides Court Order

[Agent11]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBVzsfF_wIM&list=UUbT5ssxEDZHNyz28N4Ov7Wg

What does ATF intend to do with that information? Why does it need it? How did Ares find out about it? How long can the injunction last? What legal foundation do they have to do this? Can Dimitri and staff really go to jail over this? Is this related to the attack by National City on Ares' sign out front (AR-15)? Is this a publicity stunt? Does the ATF charge have any validity? How can Ares Armor stand against this and how much does it cost them to do so? Is the legal/political process working to stop these Gestapo like tactics or are things too far gone for that? The answers come in this hard hitting news piece as we interview Demtri and take a hard look at this case study for both small business and personal freedom and security in this country.///////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in... contact is requested to these California legislators to protect Ares Armor and Dimitri Karras 1st, 2nd, and 4th Amendment rights and due process:
Email Darrell Issa http://forms.house.gov/issa/webforms/...
DARREL ISSA Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/darrellissa
Darrell Issa Twitter https://twitter.com/darrellissa

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Email ROCKY CHAVEZ http://arc.asm.ca.gov/member/AD76/?p=...
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In case we need more proof our rights are being attacked even now, stay vigilant.

 

[CZroe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkexneHJ3vY

 

[glenn1]

Link an actual news story and I'll be happy to read it, otherwise no thanks.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Link an actual news story and I'll be happy to read it, otherwise no thanks.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...ity-San-Diego-Gun-Parts-Owners-250781001.html

 

[Jimzz]

So this was not about the gun owners unless you have more?

"Ares Armor is under investigation for federal firearms violation. We served a lawful federal search warrant at a number of their businesses."

 

[boomerang]

There seems to be some question on whether the temporary restraining order the owner got was rescinded or not. Putting that aside, why the show of force? Why are agents dressed in military garb storming the store with guns drawn and why are they then taking a sledge hammer to the safe? If they are legally there, and it appears that they more than likely were, why is this store owner, this business and the customers of the business being treated like public enemy number one?

Do we still live in the United States of America? It doesn't look it anymore and with far too much frequency. Where does it stop?

 

[boomerang]

So this was not about the gun owners unless you have more?

"Ares Armor is under investigation for federal firearms violation. We served a lawful federal search warrant at a number of their businesses."

It is very much about the gun owners.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/18/atf-raids-calif-gun-parts-store-after-restraining-/

The ATF felt that the owner of the store was selling illegal firearms. As part of their investigation, the ATF wanted the owner to provide a list of his customers. He refused to do so and got a court order barring the seizure of that list. A judge rescinded that order (according to one of many articles out there) and the government decided to not just walk in and ask for what they wanted, they decided a show of force was in order.

Additionally, the owner, upon hearing that the 80% complete AR15 lower receivers he was selling (which you can buy at various places) were at the heart of the investigation, he ceased the sale of the receivers and locked them in the safe. He was not selling them. He made them inaccessible. He refused to release his customer records and got a court order backing that up. A judge reversed that court order and his stores were raided and the safe in at least one of his stores was broken into by agents of the ATF.

 

[Genx87]

Looks like the whole argument about lists not leading to confiscation is about to die.

 

[highland145]

Looks like the whole argument about lists not leading to confiscation is about to die.

Doubtful, just diversions. "We're not using lists to confiscate. Look, squirrel."

 

[glenn1]

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...ity-San-Diego-Gun-Parts-Owners-250781001.html

Thanks for the link. So it seems your title is incorrect in that a different judge rescinded the first court order so the ATF didn't "override it." It's a legitimate question whether they handled the search and seizure appropriately or whether the investigation is truly warranted in the first place. But heavy handed actions from the feds in general and ATF in specific aren't particularly newsworthy although they're always depressing to read about. Ideally this is where a WikiLeaks would come in handy to expose the names of the political appointees who order this sort of shenanigans and publicly shame them.

 

[Jimzz]

Looks like the whole argument about lists not leading to confiscation is about to die.

Yea because selling illegal items and wanting to know who bought them is so totally the same. Any other strawman?

And as said there was no court order blocking this, the OP is pulling BS and the facts are clear. The court order allowing this was legal and went through normal channels.

 

[SaurusX]

Yea because selling illegal items and wanting to know who bought them is so totally the same. Any other strawman?

And as said there was no court order blocking this, the OP is pulling BS and the facts are clear. The court order allowing this was legal and went through normal channels.

80% lowers are not illegal. They're not firearms though it sounds like the ATF wants them to be. They're a hunk of metal or plastic.

 

[boomerang]

Yea because selling illegal items

What leads you to believe unfinished AR-15 lowers are illegal?

 

[Genx87]

Yea because selling illegal items and wanting to know who bought them is so totally the same. Any other strawman?

And as said there was no court order blocking this, the OP is pulling BS and the facts are clear. The court order allowing this was legal and went through normal channels.

There is no law against selling 80% completed lowers. So I ask why do they need the customer list? I'd hazard a guess when a law is passed to deal with 80% completed lowers they will go and confiscate from the customer list.

 

[brandonb]

Don't you know the government is just an armed gang. Laws will go out the window when they need them to. They can just label someone a terrorist (domestic or foreign, doesn't matter) and boom, there goes the laws.

Since we allowed the government to do this, and allow them to remove guns. We are at their mercy. God help us all.

 

[TreVader]

Don't you know the government is just an armed gang. Laws will go out the window when they need them to. They can just label someone a terrorist (domestic or foreign, doesn't matter) and boom, there goes the laws.

Since we allowed the government to do this, and allow them to remove guns. We are at their mercy. God help us all.

Watch when the next earthquake, tornado, or hurricane hits and you're the first one in line at FEMA for handouts.



You have no idea how society works if you think the government is an "armed gang".



As far as this raid, nice to see the ATF going after the one letter in that acronym that deserves more scrutiny.

 

[OCGuy]

Actually they didn't violate a court order, since it specifically allowed for search warrants.

Ares will receive my support ASAP.

 

[brandonb]

Watch when the next earthquake, tornado, or hurricane hits and you're the first one in line at FEMA for handouts.



You have no idea how society works if you think the government is an "armed gang".



As far as this raid, nice to see the ATF going after the one letter in that acronym that deserves more scrutiny.

Isn't Rachel Maddow on now? You are missing it.

 

[OCGuy]

As far as this raid, nice to see the ATF going after the one letter in that acronym that deserves more scrutiny.

Maybe you think that because you don't even know the full name?

ATF(E). Now that you have all of the information, you can re-think your statement and get back to us.

By the way, the other ATF scandal going on is getting much more interesting, but it probably deserves its own thread.

 

[boomerang]

Isn't Rachel Maddow on now? You are missing it.

He strikes me more like an Ed Schultz kind of guy. You know, an hysterical screamer?

 

[CZroe]

Watch when the next earthquake, tornado, or hurricane hits and you're the first one in line at FEMA for handouts.



You have no idea how society works if you think the government is an "armed gang".



As far as this raid, nice to see the ATF going after the one letter in that acronym that deserves more scrutiny.

Many violent street gangs offer services to earn loyalty. Just like a pimp offers his protection to a prostitute: it isn't free and it doesn't break the analogy.

 

[Jimzz]

There is no law against selling 80% completed lowers. So I ask why do they need the customer list? I'd hazard a guess when a law is passed to deal with 80% completed lowers they will go and confiscate from the customer list.

Yea because the shop owner would never lie why he is being investigated.

 

[CZroe]

Yea because the shop owner would never lie why he is being investigated.

Guilty until proven innocent? I guess that's how things work now.

 

[Genx87]

Yea because the shop owner would never lie why he is being investigated.

So you concede selling 80% completed lowers isnt actually illegal like the ATF claims?

 

[TerryMathews]

I will say, knowing a fair bit about federal firearms laws, I was surprised when I learned that ARES had a piece that was supposed to be milled to comply with AR 80% rules as two separate pieces in their polymer frame.

I didn't find their argument particularly compelling, that they were molding the magwell around the plug. The 80% rules intended for that area to be a solid piece.

I think the real takeaway from this is that end users need to be familiar with the ATF's rules about 80% receivers and not rely on the company they are buying from.