AT World of Warcraft Thread (WotLK, where do you play, General BS and all that)

Page 99 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
# Several other warlock talents have had their ranks reduced, their effects changed or removed. This list includes but is not limited to Demonic Empathy, Shadow Embrace, Eradication, Suppression, and Pandemic.

thinking about that im pretty sure pandemic will be removed totally as they are changing it so all dots can crit by default - they should add something new here
Eradication - either the cooldown if going to be removed, proc chance increased or they are gonna fix the issues with putting more then 1 point in it being kinda useless

no idea about shad embrace or susp or the demo ones
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
91
heh i dropped lightweave for 23 haste, ill prob drop tailoring for JC unless 3.1 buffs tailoring

Is it worth it? It seems like lightweave keeps scaling, I have been waiting for it to drop below 0.8% of total dps and it just never happens. May be a factor that it would likely crit far more often for me(just due to itemization), although I'm not sure on that.

Something tells me warlocks will still get the shaft and mages will get lovin... not like they need it.

Heh, we did just from the notes you posted-

* Divine Spirit ? this spell is now a core ability available to all priests.

That's a pretty nice buff for me. Don't have a priest specced for it atm, gives me probably another 150dps or so. Current spec/glyph I get more from spirit then any other class :p

My dps over the course of the Naxx run ended up averaging 3600'ish (pre-extract of power, which I got from Sapphiron).

Given your stats, that looks pretty solid to me. You are 38 hit short, pretty low on raw sp too. How many badges you have? Pick up the hit badge belt and throw a buckle on it with 2 +16 hits, will take care of your hit issues. Either that, or go with hit food instead of SP food when you raid, should put you close to cap(maybe even hit cap). What's your haste at btw?

I'm still missing with regular melee swings at about a 15% rate as my hit rating is only around 200. But what I don't get is even when I buffed up to 285hit rating I was still at 14% miss for that boss fight. Is this because of the offhand swing factor?

Your overall miss is 15% and then it is 14% on bosses with extra hit? Not understanding if that is what you are saying, but if it is then that would make sense.

Oh and I hate that our dr00d tank keeps rolling on leather dps, but he's the RL.

That is Blizzard's goal. There isn't bear gear anymore, they are supposed to roll against rogues now. Not saying that it is the way it should be, but it is a design goal of the game.

I have been playing in a competitive raid environment for 4 years and when I spec marks I fall 1000 dps behind ele shams, 800 dps behind the moonkin and 700 dps behind the arcane mages.

Arcane mages behind boomers and elemental shammies? I may lose to a lock or FFB mage depending on the fight, DKs have even gotten by me in a few fights, then you have the odd fight where dps warriors just obliterate the charts, but hybrid classes?
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
Ben: good and i stress GOOD Moonkins can put out some serious DPS, but most of the rankings in DPS within guilds is based on Gear, skill and raidsetup, same can be said for eles


 

Juddog

Diamond Member
Dec 11, 2006
7,851
6
81
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
heh i dropped lightweave for 23 haste, ill prob drop tailoring for JC unless 3.1 buffs tailoring

Is it worth it? It seems like lightweave keeps scaling, I have been waiting for it to drop below 0.8% of total dps and it just never happens. May be a factor that it would likely crit far more often for me(just due to itemization), although I'm not sure on that.

Something tells me warlocks will still get the shaft and mages will get lovin... not like they need it.

Heh, we did just from the notes you posted-

* Divine Spirit ? this spell is now a core ability available to all priests.

That's a pretty nice buff for me. Don't have a priest specced for it atm, gives me probably another 150dps or so. Current spec/glyph I get more from spirit then any other class :p

My dps over the course of the Naxx run ended up averaging 3600'ish (pre-extract of power, which I got from Sapphiron).

Given your stats, that looks pretty solid to me. You are 38 hit short, pretty low on raw sp too. How many badges you have? Pick up the hit badge belt and throw a buckle on it with 2 +16 hits, will take care of your hit issues. Either that, or go with hit food instead of SP food when you raid, should put you close to cap(maybe even hit cap). What's your haste at btw?

I'm still missing with regular melee swings at about a 15% rate as my hit rating is only around 200. But what I don't get is even when I buffed up to 285hit rating I was still at 14% miss for that boss fight. Is this because of the offhand swing factor?

Your overall miss is 15% and then it is 14% on bosses with extra hit? Not understanding if that is what you are saying, but if it is then that would make sense.

Oh and I hate that our dr00d tank keeps rolling on leather dps, but he's the RL.

That is Blizzard's goal. There isn't bear gear anymore, they are supposed to roll against rogues now. Not saying that it is the way it should be, but it is a design goal of the game.

I have been playing in a competitive raid environment for 4 years and when I spec marks I fall 1000 dps behind ele shams, 800 dps behind the moonkin and 700 dps behind the arcane mages.

Arcane mages behind boomers and elemental shammies? I may lose to a lock or FFB mage depending on the fight, DKs have even gotten by me in a few fights, then you have the odd fight where dps warriors just obliterate the charts, but hybrid classes?

I've just been eating the +hit food when raiding since I'm at 450 fishing; with the +hit food I get to the +hit cap.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Originally posted by: Beev
Uh, adding Recklessness and weakness makes no sense. Recklessness gives AP, Weakness takes it away. Why not just make Recklessness give less AP?

I assume they're going to remove the buffing aspect of Recklessness, which was a little silly to begin with. So now Reck+Weak will lower armor and lower AP.
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
91
Ben: good and i stress GOOD Moonkins can put out some serious DPS

What level are you seeing them hit? I swapped guilds, joined up with a less casual guild(though not hardcore by any means) as despite my time limitations they insisted they wanted me to raid with them when I could. They have just got Maly on farm, although they have had Naxx on farm for quite a while now(their ranged dps depth was weak). Their boomers were a bit over 4K on Patch last night, how much higher do they get up to? They weren't rocking all best in slot gear, but they certainly had me outgeared(no luck at all on trinkets or shoulders- rolled a 92 on Illustration and lost last week, that would have replaced a blue- no luck on Maex in 10 man either....). Only BIS item I have is the stupid wand atm, don't have 4pc T7 bonus yet(shoulders and helm have been avoiding me) and still was easily able to best the boomers(elemental wasn't close that was with us- I know that is more of a rotation issue as I've seen elementals clear 4K).
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Siphon to corruption is pretty outstanding. Overall the spell changes to locks so far looks pretty good for pve. No mention of pvp though..... 

Glad to see the spell effect combination. Only the pally with all the buffs and the shammies totems come close to how full the locks action bars are. 

The talent talk kinda worries me, the aff tree is already overflowing with "must have" stuff as it either builds upon another lower tier one or must be taken for spec viability if you plan on going deep in the tree. Hope the are doing more trimming instead of sticking more in there.  

Warrior stance/rage, this is a change that should have been made way back when while they first talked about moving tactical mastery. 
PW:S and rage gen; this is a change that should have been looked into even further back.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Ugh, previous post got butchered and I can't edit it on the mobile. :(



Ok, back to JCing. Anyone want to talk about meta's?

When it talks about having to add other gems to it to work, do you also get the abilities from those gems, or....?



I did push my JC over 400 so I could get rid of some excess ssaron stacks I had; is it my luck or do they seem to not produce the superior gems at nearly as good a rate as when I prospected adamite?
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Originally posted by: lupi
Ok, back to JCing. Anyone want to talk about meta's?

When it talks about having to add other gems to it to work, do you also get the abilities from those gems, or....?

I'm not sure what you mean by this? You mean they're going to make the meta requirements worse (as in add more requirements to them)?


Originally posted by: lupi
I did push my JC over 400 so I could get rid of some excess ssaron stacks I had; is it my luck or do they seem to not produce the superior gems at nearly as good a rate as when I prospected adamite?

I usually have kinda poor luck, but at least uncommon gems are used more often now because of the JC daily. I actually prospected a bunch of saronite the other day because my uncommon gems were dropping too far... I think I only had 10x some of them when I prefer having more than a stack.
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
1
0
DRUID

# Savage Defense ? this is a new passive ability. When a druid in Dire Bear form deals a melee critical strike, the druid gains a damage shield equal to 25% of their attack power. The next hit completely removes the shield regardless of how much damage was done.
# Survival of the Fittest has had its bonus armor reduced to compensate for the above increase in damage mitigation.
# Faerie Fire (and similar debuffs) now reduces armor by 5%. See Sunder Armor in the warrior update below for additional details.
# Thorns and Nature?s Grasp can be cast in Tree of Life form.
# Survival Instincts now works in Moonkin form.
# Replenish ? to avoid confusion, this talent has been renamed ?Revitalize.? It now also works with Wild Growth.
# We are also looking at increasing the sustained (not burst) damage of feral druids in cat form.

Revitalize might be worth it now.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Ben: good and i stress GOOD Moonkins can put out some serious DPS

What level are you seeing them hit? I swapped guilds, joined up with a less casual guild(though not hardcore by any means) as despite my time limitations they insisted they wanted me to raid with them when I could. They have just got Maly on farm, although they have had Naxx on farm for quite a while now(their ranged dps depth was weak). Their boomers were a bit over 4K on Patch last night, how much higher do they get up to? They weren't rocking all best in slot gear, but they certainly had me outgeared(no luck at all on trinkets or shoulders- rolled a 92 on Illustration and lost last week, that would have replaced a blue- no luck on Maex in 10 man either....). Only BIS item I have is the stupid wand atm, don't have 4pc T7 bonus yet(shoulders and helm have been avoiding me) and still was easily able to best the boomers(elemental wasn't close that was with us- I know that is more of a rotation issue as I've seen elementals clear 4K).

we have had eles and boomkins hover right around 5k on a fight like patch

they can prob get higher with better gear
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
1
0
Originally posted by: Aikouka
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Revitalize might be worth it now.

I thought most didn't like it because it wasn't very effective in its returns?

Sort of. You need to take into account how it gets returned and who it gets returned to. It currently has a 15% chance per tick of Rejuv to return resources. However, no one gets rejuv except the tanks most of the time and they don't need more rage. Those that do get rejuv who are not a tank rarely get many ticks of the spell because someone else will heal them to 100% soon after Rejuv is cast and it no longer ticks once the person hits 100% hp.

However, WG is a different story. It can hit up to 5 people at once and is instant cast which means 5 ticks per seconds for up to 7 seconds. That has a max potential 35 ticks in 7 seconds. Granted, similar things happen with WG as they do with Rejuv when it comes to the person being healed to 100% before WG completes its duration. So, based on my experience with the spell, you will get an average of about 15 ticks per cast.

Combining that knowledge with the fact that duel spec is coming and the fact that there are few other talents to invest in that might make it worth something. That is, unless you are investing points in HT and actually use it. I never do.
 

Jax Omen

Golden Member
Mar 14, 2008
1,654
2
81
Originally posted by: lupi
Ugh, previous post got butchered and I can't edit it on the mobile. :(



Ok, back to JCing. Anyone want to talk about meta's?

When it talks about having to add other gems to it to work, do you also get the abilities from those gems, or....?



I did push my JC over 400 so I could get rid of some excess ssaron stacks I had; is it my luck or do they seem to not produce the superior gems at nearly as good a rate as when I prospected adamite?

All it means is that in order for your meta gem to do ANYTHING, you must have it's requirements met.

For example,. I use a Relentless Earthsiege Diamond on my Enhancement Shaman (21 agility and 3% increased critical strike damage). This gem requires 1 red gem, one yellow gem, and one blue gem.

This means, across your ENTIRE set of gear, you need one gem that covers each color. A red gem counts as one red gem towards a meta, a purple counts as 1 red AND one blue, etc.

Prismatic gems, such as the Enchanted Tear (+6 all stats) or the Jewelcrafter-only Dragon's Eye gems, count as 1 red 1 yellow and 1 blue gem towards meta requirements. So my meta gem requirement is met simply by having a Dragon's Eye in at least one socket on my gear. If you're a jewelcrafter you should have 3 Dragon's Eye gems across your gear anyway, and this is able to activate every Meta in the game, so JCs generally do not have to worry about meeting meta requirements.



All the gems that count towards meta requirements still perform 100% of their function that they would without the meta gem being present.

Hope that's clear enough.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
I have no idea how metas work, I was just browsing some purchaseable via honor/WG marks and it mentioned soomething in the description about needed other colors to activate it's abilities. I'm not sure what that means or if that only applies to bought ones.


I actually managed to snag enough uncommon gems from regular mining to skill up my JC. It looks like the dal dailies are L75, so even if I managed to move him there I wouldn't be able to get them yet.





Also opened up my 3rd oracle egg a couple days ago. Damned thing gave me my third bird pet.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
31
91
Without seeing the specifics I am not happy with the Rogue HfB change. Having to rely on another class or cycle a rupture in early just to buff myself sounds annoying. Now, if it is one stack and I only have to refresh it once every 30 seconds or so now (each time I rupture for instance) then this will actually be a lot better than the current form from a sanity perspective.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
31
91
Originally posted by: lupi
I have no idea how metas work, I was just browsing some purchaseable via honor/WG marks and it mentioned soomething in the description about needed other colors to activate it's abilities. I'm not sure what that means or if that only applies to bought ones.

Metas become 'active' based on other gems you have slotted. (Hypothetical) if it says it requires two red & two yellow then you need to have two of each (or their "equivalent") slotted elsewhere. If you do not have this you will see the meta gem slot greyed out and it will show you which gem type you are missing when hovering over the item.

 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
You're not using the Chaotic Skylfare Diamond? The only advantage I can think of for using the Relentless Earthsiege would be the +21 agil providing AP, but it also only provides melee crit (and not much at that since Shaman's Agil->Crit was reduced quite a bit in 3.0.2) when Spell Crit is a big thing for us (gotta try and keep ED up). As a JC'er, using Chaotic Skylfare isn't hard.

I also finally have enough badges to get Mirror of Truth and the Pendant of the Outcast hero. Although in a sense, I don't like "on chance" trinkets much because of how much of a pain it can be for certain classes. Like on my Death Knight, to use Gargoyle, I want to wait until Unholy Might and the Mirror of Truth proc so I get the most out of it. On my Shaman, I'd want to wait for the MoT to proc to use my wolves or one of my damaging totems. Although at least as a shaman, things like that proc really, really quickly because of how fast we attack. I have the Meteorite Whetstone and that thing procs like a champ ( ignoring the 45 second cooldown of course ).

EDIT:

Also if I remember correctly, the meta must be active to receive the helm's socket bonus.
 

Jax Omen

Golden Member
Mar 14, 2008
1,654
2
81
Originally posted by: Aikouka
You're not using the Chaotic Skylfare Diamond? The only advantage I can think of for using the Relentless Earthsiege would be the +21 agil providing AP, but it also only provides melee crit (and not much at that since Shaman's Agil->Crit was reduced quite a bit in 3.0.2) when Spell Crit is a big thing for us (gotta try and keep ED up). As a JC'er, using Chaotic Skylfare isn't hard.

I also finally have enough badges to get Mirror of Truth and the Pendant of the Outcast hero. Although in a sense, I don't like "on chance" trinkets much because of how much of a pain it can be for certain classes. Like on my Death Knight, to use Gargoyle, I want to wait until Unholy Might and the Mirror of Truth proc so I get the most out of it. On my Shaman, I'd want to wait for the MoT to proc to use my wolves or one of my damaging totems. Although at least as a shaman, things like that proc really, really quickly because of how fast we attack. I have the Meteorite Whetstone and that thing procs like a champ ( ignoring the 45 second cooldown of course ).

EDIT:

Also if I remember correctly, the meta must be active to receive the helm's socket bonus.

I will be using the CSD when I learn the cut. I learned RED first because my girlfriend is a hunter and it's her best choice for a meta, and it's VERY close for Enhance anyway.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Originally posted by: Jax Omen
I will be using the CSD when I learn the cut. I learned RED first because my girlfriend is a hunter and it's her best choice for a meta, and it's VERY close for Enhance anyway.

Ahh that makes sense. I have a ton of JC tokens so learning multiples isn't a big deal, but my two main 80s right now are both JCs and both melee, so they both use the CSD. My third 80 will also use the CSD (FFB Mage). I think the Druid will need that intellect+mana on spell cast Earthstorm Diamond.

Thankfully, one difference we didn't mention is that creating the uncut meta gem no longer has a cooldown. It's also nice since my mage is a transmute mastery alchemist and I've created multiple a few times now.

Maybe I'll be lucky soon and Eck will finally drop his helm for my Shaman :(.

Oh and I had quite the annoying thing happen yesterday. I've been trying to go to UK to get the belt off Ingvar 'cause I don't really need the 1.4% hit from the belt off Ymiron, but I would like the 4.5 expertise. I would've had it once, but a fucking Ret pally rolled against me ~_~. Get the damn belt from Nexus and leave mah Expertise alone!
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
1
0
Originally posted by: Aikouka
Originally posted by: Jax Omen
I will be using the CSD when I learn the cut. I learned RED first because my girlfriend is a hunter and it's her best choice for a meta, and it's VERY close for Enhance anyway.

Ahh that makes sense. I have a ton of JC tokens so learning multiples isn't a big deal, but my two main 80s right now are both JCs and both melee, so they both use the CSD. My third 80 will also use the CSD (FFB Mage). I think the Druid will need that intellect+mana on spell cast Earthstorm Diamond.

That is what I use.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
Heh they stole my idea of granting mitigation based on crit/AP to make those into tanking stats for us. Too bad they are nerfing our armor even more.

I hope they change shred to reduce its positional requirement (e.g. let you use it from any direction, but provide even more damage if you are behind the target). Also some sort of talent/glyph change so that our moves refresh rip/savage roar would be very nice. Right now we have the most difficult rotation to maintain. It's like being an affliction warlock except you have to be in melee range and behind the target at all times, and you can only cast 1 ability every 6 seconds or so due to energy regen :)
 

DangerAardvark

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2004
7,559
0
0
Originally posted by: rh71
I am finally raiding on my restored rogue... picked up webbed death & spinning fate on my 2nd run with the guild (open roll as we still have to get like 3 PUGs)... not bad for the time invested. Berserking enchant is the way to go for enchants... but damn is it pricey @ over 1k. This morning I scored the Instructor BOE shoulders from some dude just looking to offload stuff... 1k gold... great deal as a couple places state that it's been going for 3k avg. I will cry if I win the tier shoulders on the very next run though... that extra socket helps.

All-inclusive, I'm doing 2k dps as a mut rogue while a DK, war, & dps dr00d are doing near 3k... no doubt AOE helps (my fan of knives isn't doing so hot apparently) but damn... I'm so far down the Recount list it's embarassing. I'm still missing with regular melee swings at about a 15% rate as my hit rating is only around 200. But what I don't get is even when I buffed up to 285hit rating I was still at 14% miss for that boss fight. :| Is this because of the offhand swing factor?

And WTH are dps dr00ds doing to be able to dps that much? Is it an OP cat swipe? Oh and I hate that our dr00d tank keeps rolling on leather dps, but he's the RL. :(

I paid 2k for my Spaulders of Egotism. Worth it for 2nd best in slot though. Also, hit isn't a big deal as long as you're over the special cap (99). It's still valuable under the poison hit cap (315), but if you're buffing to 285, you should hit the cap easily if you have a Shadowpriest in the run, or Draenai aura.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Quote from: Bornakk (Source)As we have suggested, we have become concerned that mana regeneration is currently too powerful, especially for healers. We want players to have to keep an eye on mana. We don?t want you to go out of mana every fight, but running out of mana should be a very real risk for sloppy playing or attempting content that you aren?t yet ready for. When mana regeneration is trivial then certain parts of the game break down ? classes that offer Replenishment are devalued, stats that offer mana regeneration are devalued, and spells that are efficient are neglected in preference to spells with high throughput.

Here are a list of changes you are likely to see in 3.1. They will be available to try out on the PTR. Mana regeneration is somewhat technical, so please bear with us.


Regeneration while not casting (outside of the ?five second rule?) will be decreased. We think that (1) the ability to cast heal over time spells and then sit back and (2) benefitting from a clearcasting proc that also gets you out of the five second rule both provide too much mana regeneration, even over short time periods.
To make this change, we are reducing mana regeneration granted by Spirit across the board. However we are also boosting the effects of talents such as Meditation that increase regeneration while casting. The net result should be that your regeneration while casting will stay about the same, but your not-casting regeneration will be reduced. This change will have little impact on dps casters, since they are basically always casting.
The specific talents and abilities being boosted are: Arcane Meditation, Improved Spirit Tap, Intensity, Mage Armor, Meditation, Pyromaniac and Spirit Tap. Yes this makes these ?mandatory? talents even more mandatory, if such a thing is possible.
Since paladins rely less on Spirit as a mana-regeneration stat, we have to address them in other ways. We don?t want to change Illumination or Replenishment. However, we are going to increase the healing penalty on Divine Plea from 20% to 50%. Divine Plea was originally intended to help Protection and Retribution paladins stay full on mana. It should be a decision for Holy paladins, not something that is automatically used every cooldown.
In addition, we are also changing the way Spiritual Attunement works. In situations with a large amount of outgoing raid damage, as well as in PvP, this passive ability was responsible for more mana regeneration than we would like. We want to keep the necessary benefit it grants to tanking Protection paladins, while making it less powerful for Holy paladins in PvP or raid encounters with a lot of group damage.
We are also taking a close look at clearcasting procs themselves. One likely outcome is to change them to an Innervate-like surge of mana so that the net benefit is the same, but healers won?t shift to out-of-casting regeneration so often.
We balance around the assumption that even 10-player groups have someone offering Replenishment. To make this even easier on players we are likely to offer this ability to additional classes, as well as make sure that existing sources of Replenishment are more equitable.
These changes are ultimately being done to bring the different healing classes more in line with each other as well as to give the encounter team more leeway when designing encounters, who can balance with these new mana regeneration numbers in mind. In a world with infinite healer mana, the only way to challenge healers is with increasingly insane amount of raid damage, so that global cooldowns become the limiting factor since mana fails to be. An example is the Eredar Twins in late Sunwell. We weren?t necessarily happy with that model, and this change hopefully allows us to move towards giving healing a more deliberate and thoughtful pace rather than frenetic spam.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.