AT World of Warcraft Thread (WotLK, where do you play, General BS and all that)

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Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
1
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Originally posted by: rivan
While it doesn't compare to you guys just finishing off the uber-raider achievements, I managed to complete 3 wings of Naxx in a group full of win on Monday :)

On the down side, they were using webdkp and while the per-fight dkp grants were generous, I was outbid on all 4 items I bid on. By the same priest. No loot for me.

I am convinced that a loot system strictly based on DKP sucks. Same thing goes with a system strictly based on loot council. For pugs, I prefer strict rolling for need. For guilds, I prefer a blend of both DKP and loot council. I like the "DKP" to be based strictly on attendance. From there, I want the council to use this "DKP" as a guideline. Not a rule of thumb. I like them to use it to narrow down who gets the loot, but from there decide who gets it using their own best judgment. I have found that this sort of thing if managed by the right people results in everyone getting their fair share of loot while also maximizing progression.
 

DirthNader

Senior member
Mar 21, 2005
466
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Thinking about going back to affliction. I've got a handle on all of the encounters now, and I'm starting to hate seeing my dps fall through the floor because of movement. On Sarth attempts where I get lucky with flamewalls / void zones and don't have to move I'm near the top of the dps meter. Dodge a few walls and voids and I'm hanging with the OT.

My gear also screams for me to go affliction. Around 500 haste with only ~18% crit.

Think I may ease back into it by macroing UA / Immo together (same duration) and CoA / SL (about the same duration w/ glyphed CoA). That would keep my keybindings down and really make the rotation not much more difficult than my current 0/31/40 rotation.

Originally posted by: Jax Omen
**** YES. TWILIGHT VANQUISHER HOOFTRELLEN.

I am so happy.

Grats!

We had some attempts last night, but the MT was having connection issues. On the second or third attempt we had Shadron down to around 10% with the entire raid still up, and the MT just disappeared.

Originally posted by: Xavier434
I am convinced that a loot system strictly based on DKP sucks. Same thing goes with a system strictly based on loot council. For pugs, I prefer strict rolling for need. For guilds, I prefer a blend of both DKP and loot council...

The thing I don't like about pure DKP is the bidding. I like the EPGP priority system, set values for boss kills, and set values for loot granted. I also like being able to pull up the addon in-game and see where I stand.

Loot council would piss me off I'm afraid. It even rubbed me the wrong way last night when one of our officers was trying to talk us out of a particular raid because the people that they "wanted to get loot aren't here".
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
Dirth: you are gonna lose crit when you spec out of destro no more Backlash or devistation.

Someone posted earlier about warlocks and threat, i actually looked at it last night and during bloodlust i pull nearly 8000 TPS which is kind of stupid

IDK what EPGP is but we use normal DKP bidding and it works fine
 
Nov 30, 2006
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Ran Naxx last night with my guild and found out that we now have a "loot council" instead of free rolls. I have a lock with 4/5 Valorous and really only need a couple things out of Naxx (Turning Tide and the Malygos quest). We have a new officer (a warlock of course) and he was awarded the Cosmic Lights neck off Saph and then the Maly quest. Turning Tide didn't drop off KT but I'm quite sure that it's going to take at least 4 drops before I get a chance at it. I started with this guild about 2 months ago when we had to pug 8-10 to get our run in. Now we have to turn away guildies. I have been there for all the progressions and attended most every raid from Day 1. With the new system, I feel like it's a total waste of time to raid with the guild as it's pretty much guaranteed that I won't be seeing any loot for a while as all the officers seem to want themselves and their friends to get geared first. But eventually I should get a shot as I'm a solid contributor.

But this looks like a crossroads for me, should I stick it out and hope some loot trickles down?or maybe try to find another guild before Ulduar comes out in Patch 3.10. We're currently ranked 34th on the server and continue to make consistent progress. Is this "loot council" common with other guilds? I'm sorta pissed right now but I don't want to gquit and then find out later I was totally stupid for doing so. Appreciate any and all advice. Thanks.
 

ViviTheMage

Lifer
Dec 12, 2002
36,189
87
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madgenius.com
me and a local friend started a guild, got 10 or so of us in it and we are now doing 10 mans no problem...but when leading the raid, is there any mod that will tell me what priority each item has, or should we/i just guess everytime?

our loot system for 10 mans is 2 need rolls, and 1 need on T7...if people pass it's down to greed rolls which are unlimited....i figure it seems pretty fair.

I was in a 25 man pug and saw this loot master using a mod that would tell him who won rolls, without having to really 'do' anything...he just posted the item, said roll and after 10 seconds or so it would say who won, bot style...IE

3
2
1
blank won with blank roll on blank item.

then i assume he manually gives it to the winner...what mod is that?
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
1
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Both DKP and Loot Council has its pros and cons. That is why my guild blends the two. Our system is not perfect. No system is perfect. However, without going into detail, we basically take the pros from both ways of doing things and eliminate as many of the cons as possible.

For example, in my guild Doc Savage Fan would have a solid chance each raid at getting that loot off of KT. It obviously is not a guarantee that he would be first in line, but the chance is still there and it is still good.

Also, the example that Dirth mentioned which made him upset would never under any circumstances happen with our system.
 

DirthNader

Senior member
Mar 21, 2005
466
0
0
Originally posted by: Anubis
Dirth: you are gonna lose crit when you spec out of destro no more Backlash or devistation.

Those talents don't show up on your character sheet because they only apply to destro spells. The 18% I quoted is what's on my sheet - in raids I typically crit somewhere between 40% and 50%. Right in line w/ bonues from backlash, devestation, master demonologist, moonkin aura, etc.

Originally posted by: Anubis
IDK what EPGP is but we use normal DKP bidding and it works fine

EP = effort points, awarded for boss kills.
GP = gear points, awarded when you accept loot

Your loot priority is simply your EP divided by GP. When an item drops anyone that wants it simply puts a "1" in raid, and whoever has the current highest priority wins it.

There's an in-game mod to manage it, so you can see GP values for every item (on the tooltip) and see your EP / GP / priority among the other raiders.

Originally posted by: Anubis
Loot Council is common and it works fine when you have non corrupt people running it

This is just my opinion, but as long as there are humans running loot council there are going to be problems.
 

Jax Omen

Golden Member
Mar 14, 2008
1,654
2
81
Originally posted by: Anubis
and someone in Jax's guild spend 53 bosses worth of DKP on the drake apperently according to their realm forum post

Yep. Although, to be fair, they give 1.5 boss DKP for Malygos and because we did 3D Sarth they gave 5x boss DKP for clearing 3D Sarth for the first time.



And yes, we do mounts/bags/spoils bag via DKP. Helps combat inflation.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
How exactly is this GP defined? I know you use a mod, but I'm curious how it gets the values.
 

DirthNader

Senior member
Mar 21, 2005
466
0
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Originally posted by: Aikouka
How exactly is this GP defined? I know you use a mod, but I'm curious how it gets the values.

I beleive it's based on item level with certain slot holding different weights. It's not perfect (it made some folks a little mad that I won the best-in-slot caster cloak from Sarth and was charged a relatively low amount of GP), but IMHO when it's left alone it stays objective.

We don't get attendence EP. No bonus EP for first kills. No pity EP for wiping on new bosses. Yes, it sucks to spend a raid night wiping on Sarth 3D with nothing to show for it, but on the flip side it encourages people to show up for farm content since that's where the bulk of the EP is going to come from. Want to be first in line for the Twilight Drake when we finally get Sarth 3D down? Better show up for Naxx and Maly, even if you don't need loot.

I've bristled at ideas like awarding EP for turning in needed items to the guild bank. I could easly buy my way past a lot of the broke altoholics in the guild, but I don't like that idea at all. Right now the only thing that awards EP is a boss kill, and that's the way I like it.

EDIT: I also think it objectively accomplishes the intent of loot council in gearing up players for overall progression. New folks that need upgrades most spend a lot of time near the top of priority. It took four drops for me to fall out of the top 10, and now many of the folks ahead of me need gear more than I do.
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,373
1
0
Originally posted by: DirthNader
Originally posted by: Anubis
Loot Council is common and it works fine when you have non corrupt people running it

This is just my opinion, but as long as there are humans running loot council there are going to be problems.

Even if they were not run by humans there are still going to be problems. The reason is because the idea of what is right and fair when it comes to distributing loots is 100% subjective and there will always be people in every guild who disagree on a case by case basis. Therefore, all you can really do is become informed about loot rules in a guild and only join those whose rules fit what you subjectively feel is fair.

I like my guild's system, but I recognize that it is not for everyone.
 

DirthNader

Senior member
Mar 21, 2005
466
0
0
Originally posted by: Anubis
Dirth, one of them shows up, i think backlash does, it used to anyway

More reason to go back to affliction. Plus I'd pick up some SP regemming and switching my meta from the +crit / +crit damage to the +sp / +int.

 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
Yea my crit dropped a bit as i lost the 90 or whatever was on my staff when i went to the 1 hander, got some back from offhand, but even then our current content best setup only has aff at like 13% with ~2500 unbuffed spellpower and 600 ish haste
 

rivan

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2003
9,677
3
81
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: rivan
No loot for me.
DKP and loot council...

I was a pickup to fill out a guild run - loot council might actually be WORSE for me :p

I was fine just getting the achievements and fight experience this run.
 

Jax Omen

Golden Member
Mar 14, 2008
1,654
2
81
Hey Anubis, I'm running a 10-man achievement run on Saturday, any interest? We're either going to 8-man Maly/Sarth/Naxx or we're going to shoot for as many other achievements as we can get (not sure which yet >_>)
 

DirthNader

Senior member
Mar 21, 2005
466
0
0
Originally posted by: Anubis
Yea my crit dropped a bit as i lost the 90 or whatever was on my staff when i went to the 1 hander, got some back from offhand, but even then our current content best setup only has aff at like 13% with ~2500 unbuffed spellpower and 600 ish haste

2500 unbuffed? Wow.

I'm at 1799 unbuffed now. I know there a few big upgrades I'm missing. Switching out my 10-man Patch dagger for Turning Tide. Embrace of the Spider. The Maly quest necklace.

Does that include Egg of Mortal Essence? I keep hearing conflicting reports that it doesn't proc from fel armor anymore, and from what I've seen in WWS it doesn't.

I can see getting to 2200 pretty easily. I guess the remaining ~300 comes from min / maxing, and giving up the tier pieces for individual items that are best in slot?
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
Originally posted by: Jax Omen
Hey Anubis, I'm running a 10-man achievement run on Saturday, any interest? We're either going to 8-man Maly/Sarth/Naxx or we're going to shoot for as many other achievements as we can get (not sure which yet >_>)

lol im allready saved to everything, we did 8 man maly last night (its a joke) and im saved to a 10 man naxx cause we needed to get someone "Momma said knock you out" for the 6th time (for their mount) because it kept bugging on people

all i have left is the Volcano one, if you are gonna run a 10 man no drake sarth when i can come in and just die to collect my mount i will do that
 
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