AT World of Warcraft Thread (WotLK, where do you play, General BS and all that)

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Tremulant

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2004
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Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
BTW, anyone been to Patch in 25 since the patch yesterday? Granted we are not the most excellent of guilds but we have done nothing but one shot him since going into that place. Last night we got slaughtered 4 or 5 times in a row. Hell before last night we never even had to do the melee dps jump in the slime trick and we were still getting hatefuled.

Same core group of healers as well so either they were having a horrible night (possible) or something changed. Just wondering what everyone else's experience was.

We killed Patch on Tuesday night without any problems. We're almost down to a 3 hour Naxx clear.

We cleared all 4 wings Tuesday night, but ran out of time before Saph and KT. Finished it and did Maly last night. Raid ended 90 minutes earlier than usual, because we wanted to save drakes for tonight.

I think we'll be able to do a full clear of Naxx in one night from now on. On Tuesday we did the 4-horsemen achievement (wiped once also, so that added some time).

We also wiped twice on KT last night due both of our off-tanks getting MC'd both times.

I got my helm off of Malygos though. :D

EDIT: I've had crazy lag in Dalaran lately though. :( Usually takes atleast 5 seconds for my castbar to appear after starting to mount up.
 

rivan

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2003
9,677
3
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Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: Soccerman06
guild bank needed more than 150k... We have officer and loot issues.

150K lol WTF our G bank works just fine and we have never had more then 35k in there

Why the hell would you even need 35k in there? What do you guys in uber guilds use it for, other than repairs?

Originally posted by: Anubis
sorry ben castsequence macro is not hard

Since you bring it up - happen to have one for the opening sequence for aff locks? I've got it pretty down pat now, but I'd be interested to see one in action.

A couple other questions:
- What do you use for tracking DOTs? I'd like to find one I can sort by duration remaining to make the whack-a-mole a little easier.
- Is there a soft cap/ideal level for haste? I'm at around 250 and think I could really pump that, but not sure how much SP I should give up on gems to keep pushing haste, and where if anywhere it levels off.

I finally fought Patchwerk. A few times, actually. With a total fail group. On the upside, each time before the group imploded, I was around 2900-3000 dps with the felhunter. Not bad for only having 1 t7.5 and 1t7 piece. The down side is that I was ~28% of the group's damage output. Should have called it after the first wipe; those are the guys who give PUGs a bad name.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
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tbqhwy.com
Cast Sequance macros are generally bad, mages get away with them because they dont need to cast much and their rotation is a joke

for aff you want to maintain this rotation

SB-Haunt-UA-Immo-Cor-Coa-SL its not hard SB spam inbetween dot refreshes and dont clip dots
replace SB with DS when the boss isn nelow 25%

use either Dotimer or Forte warlock both have timer mods and are good mods

The soft haste cap is someplace around 1100 or so. i sit at 650 with gear and Spellstone i know people that have 100+ more then I do just in gear and spellstone
1 Spell power = ~2.5 Haste, only socket pure spellpower or Hit/spell power Gems.
 

DirthNader

Senior member
Mar 21, 2005
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Originally posted by: Anubis
What change was made to torment? we honestly didnt notice anything different on 3D 10 or 25 man

It doesn't dispel when dealing damage. Before you would take one hit from it when dealing damage, then be clear until the acolyte reapplied it.

It's a significant increase to raid damage, and it also makes insta-gibs on cloth from lava strikes more common. They'll hit for 14K on cloth when Twilight Torment is up with Shadron and Vesperon, and with health dropping during that period getting hit means death.

If you didn't notice the change I have a feeling you've got a better add tank than us, and his healers are able to keep him up and cover the increased raid damage as well. I know it's not our healers, they're probably the most pro portion of our raid group.

Originally posted by: Anubis
1 Spell power = ~2.5 Haste, only socket pure spellpower or Hit/spell power Gems.

The scary thing about that is that with Demonic Aegis spirit becomes equivalent with haste, and a higher priority stat than crit. So much has changed, and I still see warlocks gemming for stamina. They probably think I'm nuts for having Perfect Purified Shadow Crystals socketed to activate my meta.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
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Lol, hey chimley I heard your freshly transfered to realm is up for transfers. :)
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
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Originally posted by: DirthNader
Originally posted by: Anubis
What change was made to torment? we honestly didnt notice anything different on 3D 10 or 25 man

It doesn't dispel when dealing damage. Before you would take one hit from it when dealing damage, then be clear until the acolyte reapplied it.

It's a significant increase to raid damage, and it also makes insta-gibs on cloth from lava strikes more common. They'll hit for 14K on cloth when Twilight Torment is up with Shadron and Vesperon, and with health dropping during that period getting hit means death.

If you didn't notice the change I have a feeling you've got a better add tank than us, and his healers are able to keep him up and cover the increased raid damage as well. I know it's not our healers, they're probably the most pro portion of our raid group.

Originally posted by: Anubis
1 Spell power = ~2.5 Haste, only socket pure spellpower or Hit/spell power Gems.

The scary thing about that is that with Demonic Aegis spirit becomes equivalent with haste, and a higher priority stat than crit. So much has changed, and I still see warlocks gemming for stamina. They probably think I'm nuts for having Perfect Purified Shadow Crystals socketed to activate my meta.


the 25 damage + 2% int meta is much much better then the crit meta and it only requires 3 red gems to activate
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
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Any Illidan Horde have a raiding / heroic guild? I need a guild to run with on my DK and I'm in all blues at 80. Hard to find peopel to run with.
 

DirthNader

Senior member
Mar 21, 2005
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Originally posted by: Anubisthe 25 damage + 2% int mets is much much better then the crit meta and it only requires 3 red gems to activate

I thought the math had the Chaotic Skyflare ahead simply due to the +3% crit damage. Granted, I did read that in a mage thread... do they value the +crit rating higher than we do?

I'll admit on this one I've depended on theorycraft. Regemming on my server is expensive, and with 50 wipes to Sarth in the past week I don't need any more expenses :p

EDIT: Quick, back-of-the-napking math before lunch...

Highest crit from incinerate on Tues was around 11250. Crit bonus with 5/5 ruin is 100%, so...

11250 / 2 = 5625
5625 / 1.03 = 5461
5625 - 5461 = 164 bonus crit damage from meta

Raid buffed I was critting around 45% of the time, so...

164 * 0.45 = 74 average bonus damage from meta (for incinerate)

Doing the same numbers without stacking on top of 5/5 Ruin (probably more likely) cuts it in half to 37.

Obviously I'm only looking at incinerate, but I think with CoA and Immo it kind of all comes out in the wash, since you're looking at a partial benefit for +sp due to short base cast times.

I tend to stick with gemming for the socket bonus, and with Sandals of Crimson Fury having a blue socket (and the shadow crystal being current best in slot for blue sockets) I'd really only replace one shadow crystal with a +19sp gem for a total gain of +36sp.

Seems like they're roughly equal, but if the meta bonus stacks with 5/5 ruin the chaotic skyflare is ahead.

Originally posted by: Aikouka
Mages care a lot more about the Skyflare because all of their damage except Ingite and Living Bomb (the DoT portion) can crit.

I'm 0/31/40. The overwhelming majority of my damage from Immo and Incinerate. CoA is just there to proc MC. Still haven't had a chance to hit the dummies to determine if corruption needs to come back into the rotation after some gear upgrades.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
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Yeah, I don't see why you'd use a cast sequence macro on a warlock unless it's for the initial dot application which is always the same, but then after that you get into Whack-a-DoT mode =\.

I finally did Naxx yesterday on my Death Knight and well, the group was alright I guess. Way too many wipes on Anub'Rekhan in my opinion. The amount of deaths to Frogger was a bit off the scale too... if there were an achievement for "Fail @ Frogger", we would've got it :p (I didn't die of course). We couldn't beat Grobulus though :(. I don't think everyone had a boss add-on, 'cause I remember seeing quite a few 8k explosions hitting me. Then the add control wasn't up to snuff... I actually had them hitting me quite often (mostly because my Heart Strike cleave would hit them). I lost the necklace off Rekhan but ended up winning the "greed roll" for the Mail BoE gloves (that I already bought on my Shaman :p). Looks like my 72 Huntard already has some epix.

I also spent awhile and got to 400 Blacksmithing my Death Knight so I'm finally done with his professions (375+ JC, 400+ BS). Although I'm only using uncommon gems right now as my gear isn't 100% finalized. I'm also wondering if my hitting the expertise cap was a bad choice... I'm not 100% sure about that as I could have around 200 more AP if I didn't.

EDIT:

Originally posted by: DirthNader
I thought the math had the Chaotic Skyflare ahead simply due to the +3% crit damage. Granted, I did read that in a mage thread... do they value the +crit rating higher than we do?

I'll admit on this one I've depended on theorycraft. Regemming on my server is expensive, and with 50 wipes to Sarth in the past week I don't need any more expenses :p

Mages care a lot more about the Skyflare because all of their damage except Ingite and Living Bomb (the DoT portion) can crit. Not to mention, Frostfire Bolt's damage is very crit dependent. What I mean by that is since it uses Fire and Frost talents, it uses the +100% critical damage talent in Frost combined with the +damage talents in Fire. So FFB mages love crit, because FFB truly shines when it crits so to also get another +3% critical strike damage is just fantastic.
 

Chimley

Senior member
Jan 28, 2008
383
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Originally posted by: lupi
Lol, hey chimley I heard your freshly transfered to realm is up for transfers. :)

Yup :D Blizzard didn't close xfers in time and wayyyy too many people xferred from other realms (not SC). We're sticking around. The Horde imbalance is lame.. but my God they just suck at everything lol. Nothing like being outnumbered 4-1 by the opposite faction and still kicking their ass.

 

DirthNader

Senior member
Mar 21, 2005
466
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Originally posted by: Anubis
i was assumeing you raided as affliction the crit one is better for destro

STUFF :p

With the focus being on learning Sarth3D I put movement at a premium. The affliction locks that out-dps me in Naxx are right there with me on Sarth.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
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Originally posted by: DirthNader
Originally posted by: Anubis
i was assumeing you raided as affliction the crit one is better for destro

STUFF :p

With the focus being on learning Sarth3D I put movement at a premium. The affliction locks that out-dps me in Naxx are right there with me on Sarth.

i never understood the reasoning on not being aff on Sarth 3D, aff is better on fights that require movement because we can keep dots up eaisily, its just less burstu

however if you look at just 1st and 2nd drake burning even with movement aff still comes out ahead of destro specs in terms of DPS/damage done (at least for my guild) after that its a free kill and things dont matter

the only reason my meter does not read me as #1 at the end is because i pretty much dont AOE adds at all, the reason for this is because its simply easier for mages to do it and shadow priests. we always have a DK with wandering plague and 3 SPs with a plague that just does STUPID amounts of DPS on adds
 

rivan

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2003
9,677
3
81
Originally posted by: Anubis
Cast Sequance macros are generally bad, mages get away with them because they dont need to cast much and their rotation is a joke

for aff you want to maintain this rotation

SB-Haunt-UA-Immo-Cor-Coa-SL its not hard SB spam inbetween dot refreshes and dont clip dots
replace SB with DS when the boss isn nelow 25%

use either Dotimer or Forte warlock both have timer mods and are good mods

The soft haste cap is someplace around 1100 or so. i sit at 650 with gear and Spellstone i know people that have 100+ more then I do just in gear and spellstone
1 Spell power = ~2.5 Haste, only socket pure spellpower or Hit/spell power Gems.

I thought you were endorsing macros above :p

I've got that rotation down - just looking for a way to be a little lazier. The only place I could improve in a big way is my dot refreshes. I use DoTimer now, but maybe I need to update it - it doesn't treat haunt correctly (shows an 8-sec duration, not 12) and doesn't stack debuffs in order of next-expiring, though maybe I'm just overlooking the option.

I didn't realize the haste was so much less valuable than SP. I knew it was lower, just not that much lower.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
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no i was not endorsing them, just saying that mages use them because mages are bad and a 2-4 button class, no mage spec is hard to play nor is any harder to play then a TBC destro lock who hit 2-4 buttons
 

DirthNader

Senior member
Mar 21, 2005
466
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Originally posted by: Anubis

i never understood the reasoning on not being aff on Sarth 3D, aff is better on fights that require movement because we can keep dots up eaisily, its just less burst

I suppose it's not really the movement, it's the simplfied rotation that lets me focus on not dieing in the fire. When things get hectic it's nice to only have immolate and CoA to worry about instead of haunt, SE, SL, UA, Corr, immo, and CoA.

I've tried going back to affliciton, but (for me) it turns the whole game into watching a DoT timer.

I do think the importance of affliction's direct damage spells is understated in a lot of discussions. Shadow bolt still makes up a large chunk of affliction's overall damage, and shadow embrace is a huge debuff that hurts everything if you don't get your shadow bolts in.
 

Tremulant

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2004
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We have no raid-ready locks in our guild. :( Highest level in guild is only 70-71, and it's an alt. We may be getting someone's roommate fairly soon, but we're not sure.

My warlock friend who I leveled with (and who got me back into WoW), had to quit for personal reasons. He gave his lock to another guild member in the meantime, but that member has been using his SP instead (plus, on the off chance that my friend comes back, the guild would like for him to have his character back).
 

jmmyz14

Member
Jul 11, 2008
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what kind of dps numbers can i expect as a ret pally? on mobile heroic boss fights, my dps is pretty pathetic... around 1k. on a dummy i can probably hit 1.6k. am i doing something wrong? is there anything else to do besides whack-a-mole CS > DS > Judge > Hammer?

i'm using the titansteel destroyer and a few crafted and heroic epics. on paper, my stats look good but in reality not so hot. i'm getting owned on the charts by lesser geared locks and fury warrs.

stats: AP=3.2k, crit=25%, hit=6%, expertise=1%, haste=5%
 

Glayde

Senior member
Sep 30, 2004
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What seal are you using? I'd hope seal of blood or the equivalant.

You definitely want more hit and possibly expertise. 8% melee hit I believe is what you want which is around 8% hit.

Expertise you'd like near 5% but my guild's main ret told me to simply gem STR once im hit capped on my ret paladin. (Would want to see your spec).

I take our guild's ret at her word since she does 5500+ dps on benchmark fights.




 

Tremulant

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2004
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I know that for hunters the cap is 8%, but for all other classes the melee hit cap is 9%. And if you happen to be alliance and have access to moon goats, you only need 8%.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
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Originally posted by: jmmyz14
what kind of dps numbers can i expect as a ret pally? on mobile heroic boss fights, my dps is pretty pathetic... around 1k. on a dummy i can probably hit 1.6k. am i doing something wrong? is there anything else to do besides whack-a-mole CS > DS > Judge > Hammer?

i'm using the titansteel destroyer and a few crafted and heroic epics. on paper, my stats look good but in reality not so hot. i'm getting owned on the charts by lesser geared locks and fury warrs.

stats: AP=3.2k, crit=25%, hit=6%, expertise=1%, haste=5%

Woah there tiger... Judge > ALL.

Also, strength > all. If you have the choice between strength and hit, always go with strength even if you're not hit-capped. Yes, you read that correctly. Ret Paladins are one of the few classes/specs that don't get anal about not being hit capped. You don't shun hit by any means, but you don't put the almighty preference on it.

8% is the cap right now even without a Draenei. With a Draenei, the cap is 7%. Don't ask me why this is different in WotLK compared to TBC and Vanilla, but for some reason people don't miss once they hit 8%. I tried it on the boss-level target dummy with 7.87% chance to hit and I only missed one physical attack over the course of five minutes. It isn't a sure-fire reasoning (as that could be good luck with 1.13% chance to miss), but with a space goat, I don't miss at all in a raid (which I would see at least one miss or so over time with .13% chance to miss).

Oh and I have 2.8k AP, 23% crit, 8% hit and 6.25% expertise on my Blood DK and I do 2.6k ( I really need more AP and crit right now). Kinda sad that my Enhancement Shaman can do around the same with only 2.5k AP, 17% crit, 6% hit and .75% expertise lol.

EDIT:

Personally for me, I can't really figure out whether hitting the expertise cap on my Death Knight was really worthwhile. There are quite a few times I don't use diseases (usually on trash) which would mean that expertise is quite powerful as I'm doing around 88% physical and 12% magical in that case (to be honest, a blood Death Knight still does around 75% physical and 25% magical even with using diseases). I could replace all of the gems on him with Strength gems and get a ton more AP :eek:. This is of course especially nice since like Ret Paladins, Blood Death Knights gain more AP than most from strength (since we both gain additional strength per point... Ret Paladins (should) have the +15% strength talent Divine Strength and Death Knights have Veteran of the Third War and some Unholy talents).

My DK: http://www.wowarmory.com/chara...ml?r=Alleria&n=Vanados
 
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