AT World of Warcraft Thread (WotLK, where do you play, General BS and all that)

Page 490 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Chimley

Senior member
Jan 28, 2008
383
0
0
Just putting this out there:

When WoW went from 40 to 25 man raids for TBC.. everyone said millions of players would quit. They didn't.

If you are addicted to this shit, you're still going to be during Cata. No "holy then thou" bullshit is going to stop ya from playing. If you're "reallllly" hardcore and wanting the challenge of 25 man raiding, then your guild will continue as is. You'll get more loot for your efforts.

Me, I'm tired of dealing with idiots and my time contraints due to IRL have killed my raiding drive for doing 25 and 10 mans each week. I personally welcome the 10 man approach. You may get your gear sooner and at a quicker pace, but I'll get there eventually ;)
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
I love these new raid lockouts... Just another reason for guild drama. Can't down that 3rd or 4th boss? "Hey guys we're sitting 15 of you". Now, those 15 players are screwed. They can't do the 10man versions, or even continue the 25man versions of that boss. Terrible idea to carebear raiding even further Blizzard.
 

cronos

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 2001
9,380
26
101
I love these new raid lockouts... Just another reason for guild drama. Can't down that 3rd or 4th boss? "Hey guys we're sitting 15 of you". Now, those 15 players are screwed. They can't do the 10man versions, or even continue the 25man versions of that boss. Terrible idea to carebear raiding even further Blizzard.

From what I understand, the people who got benched on one particular encounter can definitely continue. In fact it will be a valid strategy if you're stuck on one particular boss on 25 (for whatever reason). Just kill it on 10-man quick and switch back right away to 25 for the subsequent encounters.

Of course, we don't really know how this will exactly be implemented so that was just my guess based on what they have announced so far.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
From what I understand, the people who got benched on one particular encounter can definitely continue. In fact it will be a valid strategy if you're stuck on one particular boss on 25 (for whatever reason). Just kill it on 10-man quick and switch back right away to 25 for the subsequent encounters.

Of course, we don't really know how this will exactly be implemented so that was just my guess based on what they have announced so far.

I believe they can continue, but they miss out on a boss and therefore a chance for loot and experience for the 25man. All it does is seperate people and take away from the guild raiding as a whole. With the short raids, people are missing out on a considerable amount each week by missing a fight. I don't mind the 10/25 man lockouts even with the heroic attempts mingled in.

I probably won't even be playing in Cat. They are already nerfing my main class (hunter) so hard I doubt I'll enjoy playing anymore. The focus is going to be terrible. I can see it now: "Can't FD guys, sorry, just shot an Aimed Shot"...
 

cronos

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 2001
9,380
26
101
He was talking about Hunter's mechanic change. With how focus cost/regen works in Cataclysm, if he just did an Aimed Shot he wouldn't have enough focus to FD. This is again all speculation though, as we don't know exactly yet how each abilities will cost and how slow/fast they will regenerate.
 

AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
14,695
117
106
Better for me since I dont have 4-7 nights a week to raid 5-6 hours like most of you guys do. At first when I read it I thought it was stupid because we would have to choose between 10 and 25 but when they said that it drops the same gear it is much better. Ive been in crazy raid guilds with certain schedules and casual ones who just try to get through the raids and I just dont have that time to be there every night at the same time to beat a boss. There are so many other priorities in life as well and the raid changes help bring in and keep the casuals.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
He was talking about Hunter's mechanic change. With how focus cost/regen works in Cataclysm, if he just did an Aimed Shot he wouldn't have enough focus to FD. This is again all speculation though, as we don't know exactly yet how each abilities will cost and how slow/fast they will regenerate.
it's probably a safe bet that it will be similar to, if not exactly the same as, energy considering that's how it works right now with your pets.
 

cronos

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 2001
9,380
26
101
On a completely random WoW moments unrelated to the current hot topic, yesterday I was doing 60-69 AB and lost a 1590 to 1600 game in the morning, and then won a 1600 to 1590 game later in the day, but on a different toon.

It really sucks when we lost it but getting that achievement when we won was pretty epic :D
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
love the raid changes, outside of pvp problems if that was implemented for wrath, it would have been a truely exceptional expansion.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
and it gets even better:



Here are some clarifications to a few common questions we're seeing.

Regarding how the raid dungeons will share the same lockout. This means that you cannot do separate instances in the same week. If you defeat an encounter in 10 player normal mode then you are locked to the 10 player mode of that dungeon for that week and can flip between 10 player normal and 10 player heroic on a per boss basis (assuming heroic is available). In this scenario you cannot do the 25 player version. Is this correct?

Correct. There should be no circumstances under which you kill a boss more than once per week on the same character. However, in the same way that you can decide on a per-boss basis whether to try normal vs. hard mode, we might allow you to change between 10 and 25 on a per-encounter basis for additional flexibility. If you started a raid in 25-player mode and then found that you couldn’t get everyone together later in the week, you might be able to downsize the next few bosses to 10-player.

Will legendary items be available through 10 player dungeons? How about special mounts like Invincible?

In some of these specific cases, the answer is that we just don’t know yet. We’re going to have to walk a fine line between dropping the same items in both 10- and 25-player modes, versus still offering something extra for the 25s. If we over-reward the 25s, then players who like 10-player raiding will still feel compelled to find more warm bodies. If we don’t provide any extra incentive for 25s, then some players may stop playing with their friends in order to avoid the extra organization required for a large raid.

Overall, our goal is that you make the decision between whether to raid with 10 players or 25 players based on what you find fun and not because of the reward structure.

For perspective, it might help to look back at how we changed lockouts and hard modes on every single raid tier of Wrath of the Lich King to see what felt right and try to fix problems that arose from previous tiers. After seeing the first tier of Cataclysm raiding, we may decide to adjust our design for the next tier.

How many pieces of loot will drop for 10 and 25 player modes respectively?

When we say “25 should drop more loot,” we’re just sharing a philosophy. You shouldn’t assume that this means that 10-player modes will drop 1 item or that 25-player modes will drop 6 items, or whatever. We haven’t finalized how much loot will drop, but our general goal is that 25s should drop more to help make up for some of the logistical cost.

Will achievements be broken down by 10/25 modes? Will realm first achievements/titles be only for 25s? Will meta-achievement mounts be available for both versions still?

There will just be raid achievements, not 10- vs. 25-player versions in most cases. The achievement won’t care if you complete it in 10s or 25s. If we do meta-achievement mounts, it’s possible we’d still have different colors of mounts, or maybe even different mounts; but for some players that might mean that 25s feels mandatory again, which would be a potential problem. This is the kind of thing we’re going to have to consider carefully, and again, we might try a few different implementations before sticking with something we like.

We’re also not sure about realm first achievements or titles. We don’t want to encourage, say, 25-player focused guilds to run a 10-player raid instead because they think that will get them the ream first title faster. One potential solution is you can earn a realm first title in 10 or 25, but not both. These types of achievements also serve as great content for guild achievements.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
this about sums it up

PessimiStick said:
I have very little faith that they will pull this off correctly.

10 and 25 have never even been *close* to the same difficulty, and they've certainly tried, so call me skeptical that they've suddenly figured it out.

Tier said:
This is a pipe dream. I mean trying to balance 10 and 25 is somewhat an insane concept to me. For so many reasons the balance of a fight sways one way or another. Then going on to say the 2 versions are intended to drop the same loot. I mean wat. I'm not bothered by it. I'm just amazed they would try to pull off both things. The 2 things are in direct conflict. If you try to work it all out you just go in a huge circle in your head and then die. Ive died 3 times now.

EDIT: They will HAVE to make 25 loot better I mean HAVE to. If given the option do do 10 or 25 with the exact same result, 10 all the way.

Palin said:
All 10ms have done is lead to watered down fights where you can't "plan" for certain classes to be there, thus interesting things like CCing or having a Rogue for stuns and stuff can't be implemented into the boss fights.

Cata doesn't look interesting at all tbh. I'm sure they'll make some fun raids but it'll be all the same in the end.

Siory said:
We had two fairly senior Blizzard employees in my previous guild. I talked a lot with one of them (Paul Carver) because he was trying to help me get a job there. Obviously he couldn't answer many of my questions (game industry it an NDA minefield) but in the WotLK era a lot of the answers he could give stopped being of the "because the technology isn't there" variety and started being more and more "because it costs to much to do."

Separate 10 man instances with their own unique art and mechanics? Costs too much. Ulduar style hard mode activation? Costs too much. And so on. The implication in all of that is that their analysts don't think its worth doing, and that they won't lose significant revenue from not doing it. It's very easy to get very cynical and jaded about the nature of the choices they make. Given the direction Activision is going though I feel pretty justified in viewing most of their decisions as the Kotickification of Blizzard.

There are too many unknowns in this new announcement to say for sure how it's going to pan out in the end. One thing I know for sure though: They don't stand a chance in hell of balancing difficulty between 10 and 25 man modes. They're still going to try, however, which means that either as Palin says the encounters themselves will be watered down or classes and specs will continue along that slippery slope of homogenization.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
As long as we still don't sit waiting for weeks for one single item to drop. It was a bummer when they removed separate lock-outs for normal and heroic (you could always get the watered-down version from normal or the better one from heroic) for this reason.

On whether or not 10's and 25's can be balanced, they can be somewhat close, but of course they won't be the exact same as that's not possible. They can always try to tune this, but it may end up being things like simply giving bosses more HP in 10-man or more damage output.

EDIT:

Oh and there's plenty to watch on TV. Heck, tonight I have House and Chuck (unfortunately, all of my CBS shows are repeats tonight... or there'd be three more). But I also have 2 more seasons of Supernatural to watch ;).
 
Last edited:

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
Oh and there's plenty to watch on TV. Heck, tonight I have House and Chuck (unfortunately, all of my CBS shows are repeats tonight... or there'd be three more). But I also have 2 more seasons of Supernatural to watch ;).

thats a matter of pure opinion. IMO there is next to nothing worth watching on TV thats not a sport and thats only like once a week or so. the only thing i actually watch on TV regularly thats not baseball/football (soccer) or US football in the fall is south park and the evening news
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
thats a matter of pure opinion. IMO there is next to nothing worth watching on TV thats not a sport and thats only like once a week or so. the only thing i actually watch on TV regularly thats not baseball/football (soccer) or US football in the fall is south park and the evening news

As long as you watch the Yankees, I can forgive such insolence.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
As long as you watch the Yankees, I can forgive such insolence.

you GTFO of my wow thread

redsox.jpg
 
Last edited:

wheresmybacon

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2004
3,899
0
76
Blizzard lays 2 huge turds with the announcement that not only will the 10s and 25s share the same lockout, but they'll have the same loot? LOL yeah right. GREAT IDEA! Why would anyone ever run 25s? Oh because an EXTRA piece of loot drops?!?!? oh shit son! Sign me up!!!!

Anyway, after reading that last quote in your post, Anubis, it makes some sense. These types of implementations and decisions are made not by people who know and love the technology and the product, but by the people in charge of the bottom line.
 

Jax Omen

Golden Member
Mar 14, 2008
1,654
2
81
Honestly, I think the 10/25 merge is a great thing. I'm tired of running the same instance with less people every week because random BIS items happen to come from 10m due to itemization quirks. I know I'm not alone in that.

Plus it means those guilds like mine that are stuck on the attendance boss will actually be able to progress on days other than tuesday.
 

cronos

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 2001
9,380
26
101
In other news, the RAF rocket mount will be out tomorrow

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=24401616792&sid=1

Time is running out for those who wish to claim their Zhevra, as the launch of the X-53 Touring Rocket is now scheduled for tomorrow, Tuesday, April 27! If you’ve fulfilled all of the Recruit-A-Friend requirements necessary to claim a mount now but choose not to claim the Zhevra, you will be able to claim the X-53 Touring Rocket instead once it launches. Sounds like they’re firing it up for a final test run now....

You can find the original announcement here: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=24038460723&sid=1
 

ModerateRepZero

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2006
1,572
5
81
ugh I wouldn't be so unhappy about the cataclysm raid lockout change if I was convinced:

1) that Blizzard could balance 10 and 25 man raids.

2) that Blizzard can figure out a way to make 25 raids worthwhile despite dropping the same items.

#2 is what bothers me the most...I mean, exactly what can Blizzard offer a 25 group if they both drop, say, ilvl 300 gear?

- gold? it wouldn't surprise me if Anubis would laugh at the idea that 25g per boss would make 25 raids attractive

- emblems/badges/etc. ? I imagine it works for a little while only because it could work like primordial saronite currently does with emblem of frost; you can convert extra badges into items that people will buy. but eventually...unless you're stockpiling money or enjoy bartering/trading, what good are raiding currency with limited items available for purchase?

- mount/companion/misc. vanity item? if it's not difficult to get then it's value is small (unless you're going for an achievement).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.