AT World of Warcraft Thread (WotLK, where do you play, General BS and all that)

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lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
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Anyone else have website problems this morning? Took me about 3 hours to get on here, site kept hanging for me.
 

invidia

Platinum Member
Oct 8, 2006
2,151
1
0
I'm interested in seeing what recuperate is for the rogue. An inverse rupture?

Also, what "new combo" system are they talking about? If you don't need a target to use SnD, does it mean combo points are built off of you like an assassin from D2?
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
screw smoke bomb, I'm excited about being able to proc SnD off of dead mobs again.

rogues were able to use exisitng combo points on dead mobs to refresh SnD in the original game, but it was nerfed out sometime around the time BWL was released.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
i remember when they changes that, was always fun just 5pt evising someone out of nowhere because of the combo point sticking
 

invidia

Platinum Member
Oct 8, 2006
2,151
1
0
I don't like how they are introducing MORE cooldown dependent abilities to the rogue. I was hoping for at least ONE ability that wasn't on a 1 minute or more cooldown.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
does this all matter? :p I mostly tank Icecrown 10-man anyway.
Not really because they both kinda suck, but I'd just stack stam. "At best" is a terrible way to calculate armor, factor that by around .8 (most fights are between .7 and .9 physical).
 

dougp

Diamond Member
May 3, 2002
7,909
4
0
I was pointing out ret is losing a HUGE utility spell, buffing them by giving a different ability isn't uncalled for and probably necessary to remain viable.

I don't get what you're pointing out - everyone is losing that "utility" spell by design, so essentially the offense specs for all cleansing classes will lose this ability. No one has received a buff because of that, and if anyone deserves escape mechanisms or help, it'd be elemental shaman and boomkins.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
hunter changes look cool... having a pet straight from level 1 will be awesome, as will the ability to swap out pets anywhere in the world before level 80.
 

cronos

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 2001
9,380
26
101
Cataclysm Class Preview: Hunter

With the upcoming World of Warcraft: Cataclysm many game elements will be changing, and each class will be receiving a number of tweaks. Here, we will explore the changes that are being made to the gun-wielding, pet-training hunter. The information you’re about to read is certainly not complete, and is only meant to act as a preview of some of the exciting new things to come. Without further ado, let’s take a look at the new hunter abilities!

New Hunter Abilities

Cobra Shot (level 81): A new shot that deals Nature damage instead of Physical damage. This ability will share a cooldown with Steady Shot. This will give hunters an alternative to Steady Shot on heavily-armored targets, and we will have talent incentives in the Beast Mastery tree to make this a signature shot.

Trap Launcher (level 83): When used, the next trap can be shot to a location within 40 yards. This provides the current Freezing Arrow treatment to all traps and, as a result, we will be removing the current ability Freezing Arrow. 1-minute cooldown. No global cooldown.

Camouflage (level 85): The hunter enters an obscured state that prevents him or her from taking ranged damage. The character would still be subject to melee or area-of-effect attacks, and dealing or taking damage will break the Camouflage effect. The hunter can move and set traps when under Camouflage, and will receive a damage bonus when attacking while under Camouflage (which will then break the effect).

Resource Mechanic Change

Here we come to the meat of the upcoming hunter changes.

Hunters will no longer use mana; instead the class will use Focus. Focus generates much like Energy, by building up. It will not be affected by Intellect at all. Haste will improve its generation. Hunters will generate roughly 6 Focus per second, slightly less than rogues' Energy generation rate of around 10 Energy per second. Below, we have listed some examples of how we intend Focus costs to operate:

Steady Shot/Cobra Shot: No cost. Generates 9 Focus per shot (or 12 per second instead of 6).
Arcane Shot/Chimera Shot /Explosive Shot: 45 Focus.
Aimed Shot/Multi-Shot: 60 Focus.
Concussive Shot/Tranquilizing Shot: 35 Focus.
Rapid Fire/Master’s Call/Disengage: 30 Focus.

Changes to Abilities and Mechanics

In addition to the resource change and new abilities listed above, we intend to make adjustments to some of the other abilities and mechanics you already know well. This list and the summary of talent changes below it are by no means comprehensive, but they should give you a good sense of what we’re going for with each spec.

A major change coming for the hunter is the removal of ammunition. Guns, bows, and crossbows will now do damage without consuming ammunition at all. There will be no more ammo slot on the hunter’s character display. Any ammunition that a hunter has at the time of the change will become gray sellable items. Existing quivers will be converted into large bags -- though each hunter can only have one and non-hunters will not benefit from this change -- and we will not be making any additional quivers.

Pet management will also change. Hunters will now have two types of attainable pets: active pets and stored pets. Hunters will be able to have up to three active pets (perhaps five for Beast Mastery specialized players) and will have the ability to switch among these pets any time they are out of combat, without going to town. They will also be able to have a large number of pets in storage at the stables. In order to swap a pet from active to passive, a hunter will still need to visit their local Stable Master. However, this should afford ample storage for the many Spirit Beasts wandering the lands of Azeroth.

Additionally, hunters will now start with a race-appropriate pet at level 1 and will be able to tame a different pet at level 10. We are also changing many pet family abilities to provide important buffs and debuffs. The intention is to allow the hunter to be able to swap pets and fill a position if a certain role is missing from the group. The goal is to have all pets provide a damage increase that is very similar and no greater than any other pet. Some examples of the changes we are making to the pet families are listed below:

Wind Serpents: Will provide a debuff that increases the amount of spell damage taken by an enemy (similar to a weaker version of the warlock ability Curse of Elements).
Ravagers: Will provide a debuff that will increase an enemy's Physical damage vulnerability (similar to a weaker version of the warrior ability Rampage).
Hyenas: Will provide bleed damage (similar to a weaker version of the druid ability Mangle).

Stings and other periodic effects will now benefit from haste and critical strike ratings. Hasted damage-over-time abilities do not lose duration, but instead add additional damage ticks.

Viper Sting will now restore 9 Focus every 3 seconds.

We are reinforcing hunters as a ranged class. To this end, the class will now start with ranged abilities at level 1, and we will be removing some melee abilities, such as Mongoose Bite.

New Talents and Talent Changes

Beast Mastery hunters will have a new talent called Careful Aim, which increases the damage of the next Steady Shot or Cobra Shot, but also increases the cast time of these abilities. The intention is to make the combination of spells into a decent damage opener, especially in conjunction with the new ability Camouflage.

Beast Mastery hunters will also have talents that make Cobra Shot superior to Steady Shot, such as Longevity reducing the cast time of Cobra Shot to 1.5 seconds.

Rapid Recuperation will cause Rapid Fire to give 20/40/60 Focus immediately and will cause Rapid Killing to generate 3 Focus per second.

Efficiency will reduce the Focus cost of Chimera Shot, Aimed Shot, and Arcane Shot.

Thrill of the Hunt grants Focus when you land a critical strike.

Hunter vs. Wild increases the hunter’s Focus generation when his or her pet is snared, stunned, or rooted.

Mastery Passive Talent Tree Bonuses

Beast Mastery
Ranged Damage
Haste
Pet Damage

Marksmanship
Ranged Damage
Armor Penetration
Double Shot

Survival
Ranged Damage
Ranged Critical Damage
Elemental Damage

Pet Damage: Many of the passive benefits to pet damage will no longer be available in the Beast Mastery talent tree. However, these will be provided through the new Mastery mechanic.

Double Shot: The hunter will have a chance to launch a free attack off of the global cooldown for 50% damage.

Elemental Damage: Hunter abilities such as traps, Black Arrow, and Explosive Shot will do elemental damage of the following types: Arcane, Fire, Frost, Nature, and Shadow.

We hope you enjoyed this preview, and ask that you provide your initial thoughts and feedback on what was presented here. Please keep in mind that what you’ve just reviewed is a work in progress and as we move closer to the Cataclysm beta, you’ll see these planned changes as well as others continue to develop in response to feedback and testing.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Cataclysm Class Preview: Hunter (Hunter Forums)
Quote from: Nethaera (Source)
With the upcoming World of Warcraft: Cataclysm many game elements will be changing, and each class will be receiving a number of tweaks. Here, we will explore the changes that are being made to the gun-wielding, pet-training hunter. The information you’re about to read is certainly not complete, and is only meant to act as a preview of some of the exciting new things to come. Without further ado, let’s take a look at the new hunter abilities!

New Hunter Abilities
Cobra Shot (level 81): A new shot that deals Nature damage instead of Physical damage. This ability will share a cooldown with Steady Shot. This will give hunters an alternative to Steady Shot on heavily-armored targets, and we will have talent incentives in the Beast Mastery tree to make this a signature shot.

Trap Launcher (level 83): When used, the next trap can be shot to a location within 40 yards. This provides the current Freezing Arrow treatment to all traps and, as a result, we will be removing the current ability Freezing Arrow. 1-minute cooldown. No global cooldown.

Camouflage (level 85): The hunter enters an obscured state that prevents him or her from taking ranged damage. The character would still be subject to melee or area-of-effect attacks, and dealing or taking damage will break the Camouflage effect. The hunter can move and set traps when under Camouflage, and will receive a damage bonus when attacking while under Camouflage (which will then break the effect).

Resource Mechanic Change
Here we come to the meat of the upcoming hunter changes.
• Hunters will no longer use mana; instead the class will use Focus. Focus generates much like Energy, by building up. It will not be affected by Intellect at all. Haste will improve its generation. Hunters will generate roughly 6 Focus per second, slightly less than rogues' Energy generation rate of around 10 Energy per second. Below, we have listed some examples of how we intend Focus costs to operate:
? Steady Shot/Cobra Shot: No cost. Generates 9 Focus per shot (or 12 per second instead of 6).
? Arcane Shot/Chimera Shot /Explosive Shot: 45 Focus.
? Aimed Shot/Multi-Shot: 60 Focus.
? Concussive Shot/Tranquilizing Shot: 35 Focus.
? Rapid Fire/Master’s Call/Disengage: 30 Focus.

Changes to Abilities and Mechanics
In addition to the resource change and new abilities listed above, we intend to make adjustments to some of the other abilities and mechanics you already know well. This list and the summary of talent changes below it are by no means comprehensive, but they should give you a good sense of what we’re going for with each spec.

• A major change coming for the hunter is the removal of ammunition. Guns, bows, and crossbows will now do damage without consuming ammunition at all. There will be no more ammo slot on the hunter’s character display. Any ammunition that a hunter has at the time of the change will become gray sellable items. Existing quivers will be converted into large bags -- though each hunter can only have one and non-hunters will not benefit from this change -- and we will not be making any additional quivers.

• Pet management will also change. Hunters will now have two types of attainable pets: active pets and stored pets. Hunters will be able to have up to three active pets (perhaps five for Beast Mastery specialized players) and will have the ability to switch among these pets any time they are out of combat, without going to town. They will also be able to have a large number of pets in storage at the stables. In order to swap a pet from active to passive, a hunter will still need to visit their local Stable Master. However, this should afford ample storage for the many Spirit Beasts wandering the lands of Azeroth.

• Additionally, hunters will now start with a race-appropriate pet at level 1 and will be able to tame a different pet at level 10. We are also changing many pet family abilities to provide important buffs and debuffs. The intention is to allow the hunter to be able to swap pets and fill a position if a certain role is missing from the group. The goal is to have all pets provide a damage increase that is very similar and no greater than any other pet. Some examples of the changes we are making to the pet families are listed below:
? Wind Serpents: Will provide a debuff that increases the amount of spell damage taken by an enemy (similar to a weaker version of the warlock ability Curse of Elements).
? Ravagers: Will provide a debuff that will increase an enemy's Physical damage vulnerability (similar to a weaker version of the warrior ability Rampage).
? Hyenas: Will provide bleed damage (similar to a weaker version of the druid ability Mangle).

• Stings and other periodic effects will now benefit from haste and critical strike ratings. Hasted damage-over-time abilities do not lose duration, but instead add additional damage ticks.
• Viper Sting will now restore 9 Focus every 3 seconds.
• We are reinforcing hunters as a ranged class. To this end, the class will now start with ranged abilities at level 1, and we will be removing some melee abilities, such as Mongoose Bite.

New Talents and Talent Changes
• Beast Mastery hunters will have a new talent called Careful Aim, which increases the damage of the next Steady Shot or Cobra Shot, but also increases the cast time of these abilities. The intention is to make the combination of spells into a decent damage opener, especially in conjunction with the new ability Camouflage.
• Beast Mastery hunters will also have talents that make Cobra Shot superior to Steady Shot, such as Longevity reducing the cast time of Cobra Shot to 1.5 seconds.
• Rapid Recuperation will cause Rapid Fire to give 20/40/60 Focus immediately and will cause Rapid Killing to generate 3 Focus per second.
• Efficiency will reduce the Focus cost of Chimera Shot, Aimed Shot, and Arcane Shot.
• Thrill of the Hunt grants Focus when you land a critical strike.
• Hunter vs. Wild increases the hunter’s Focus generation when his or her pet is snared, stunned, or rooted.

Mastery Passive Talent Tree Bonuses
Beast Mastery
• Ranged Damage
• Haste
• Pet Damage
Pet Damage: Many of the passive benefits to pet damage will no longer be available in the Beast Mastery talent tree. However, these will be provided through the new Mastery mechanic.

Marksmanship
• Ranged Damage
• Armor Penetration
• Double Shot
Double Shot: The hunter will have a chance to launch a free attack off of the global cooldown for 50% damage.

Survival
• Ranged Damage
• Ranged Critical Damage
• Elemental Damage
Elemental Damage: Hunter abilities such as traps, Black Arrow, and Explosive Shot will do elemental damage of the following types: Arcane, Fire, Frost, Nature, and Shadow.


We hope you enjoyed this preview, and ask that you provide your initial thoughts and feedback on what was presented here. Please keep in mind that what you’ve just reviewed is a work in progress and as we move closer to the Cataclysm beta, you’ll see these planned changes as well as others continue to develop in response to feedback and testing.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Hunters getting nerfed hard then. I can bet now we will have down time with Steady Shot spamming to build focus. =( Gone are the days of starting and ending boss fights are full mana.

Also, I didn't see this but will it be like DK's focus or like Rogues where they start at full. Also, no mention of cost of Strings / Black Arrow
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Q u o t e:Camouflage just seems frankly weird. So you are prevented from 'taking ranged damage' and are obscured. Does this mean you are stealthed? If not, does this mean if a ranged ability is used on you you are simply immune to it, or do they miss?



If you target a camo hunter or a rogue using Smoke Bomb, you will get an error message saying something like "Target obscured." You can see them and target them, but can't use your attacks. Imagine they are behind a pillar or something. You can try and get off an AE near them or you can move to melee.
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
0
Interesting changes for Hunters, I think.

One of the Hunters in my guild was swearing the change from mana to Focus would completely destroy the class. But reading what Blizzard is proposing, I can't say at all that I see such a thing coming to pass. No more "hey, why is my damage so low... OMGiforgottochangestingsagainroflcopter...", but rather Hunters will be able to accelerate energy (why can't Blizzard just call it that?) recuperation as part of their rotation - i.e. use Steady/Cobra Shot a couple times. Plus Haste - which many/most stack anyhow - accelerates recuperation as well.

And it eliminates Mana management.

Not a class I've played in a while, but this seems surprisingly well thought out. Self sustaining, and you can choose to accelerate regen as part of your regular rotation.


Also, I didn't see this but will it be like DK's focus or like Rogues where they start at full. Also, no mention of cost of Strings / Black Arrow



Works like Energy - So you start at Full. Not like Rage (start empty).

Also - Blizzard have stated they want player resources to require active management. Rather than ...The Thing That Interferes With The Playstyle Until You Get Geared Up - At Which Point You Forget About It Entirely. They've said their intentions are that nobody should be able to sustain an unlimited state.
 
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Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
0
If you target a camo hunter or a rogue using Smoke Bomb, you will get an error message saying something like "Target obscured." You can see them and target them, but can't use your attacks. Imagine they are behind a pillar or something. You can try and get off an AE near them or you can move to melee.

Interesting - So basically, the Hunter is able to cast a 'Line Of Sight' issue on those attacking him... right? For example, if someone is hiding around a corner - I can target them with my Warlock, but can't cast DoT's or direct damage spells because they're out of my LOS. But I could still choose to drop a Rain of Fire on the area, and maybe hit them with indirect damage.

This is interesting... And I can definitely see where it's useful. Though to be brutally honest, it's not like Hunters need any help taking down casters. :hmm:
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
Scotteq you should tell you hunter guildie that hunters had focus is the orig wow alpha/beta and it was change IIRC in the private beta to mana before it went pub, because way back then they couldn't make it work right
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
If this camo works like Detterence, they will just miss or deflect but you will retain the ability to attack. This is helpful for some situations, except when someone gets, say within melee range.
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
0
Scotteq you should tell you hunter guildie that hunters had focus is the orig wow alpha/beta and it was change IIRC in the private beta to mana before it went pub, because way back then they couldn't make it work right

Yah - It went out the door with the 200% weapon damage Mortal Strike... :'(

It *is* a pretty big change. And for those of us with painful memories of TBC Rage Normalization, cynicism is clearly the rule. But reading the mechanics as they are above, it all appears to make sense as well as being easily adjusted through increasing/reducing the amount of Focus gained from Steady/Cobra. Hunters generate less passive Focus than Rogues do. But they have the ability to dynamically manipulate their regen by simply by altering their rotation, rather than having to gimp output as a whole with a sting. Whereas a Rogue has to burn cooldowns or drink a potion (thistle tea).


..doesn't mean that Blizzard can't or won't fkuc it up (again Ref: Rage Normalization), but this seems very straightforward and strangely.. elegant.. to me.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
I think the focus intention is to have hunters basically operate exactly the same as they do with mana but make intelligence a non-stat for them.

also, I'm guessing rogues will never see a sword again... kinda sad.
 

invidia

Platinum Member
Oct 8, 2006
2,151
1
0
I don't get what you're pointing out - everyone is losing that "utility" spell by design, so essentially the offense specs for all cleansing classes will lose this ability. No one has received a buff because of that, and if anyone deserves escape mechanisms or help, it'd be elemental shaman and boomkins.

Never had trouble escaping from any classes as an ele shammy in BGs or arena, except a rogue. I have one hell of a difficult time getting SHS rogues, wars, and DKs off of me as a lock without assistance.
 
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