Hmmm I guess you're right. I just read that and read it as "frostbolt no longer provides a stacking debuff" without really thinking. If that's the case, once scorch weaving is gone, it looks like frost is going to be the way to go until I have a full set of 496+ crit gear. I hope you're right. I know I did see a change somewhere (might have been on a forum) where mages can no longer proc fingers of frost with the WE freeze on bosses, it has to actually root/freeze something before it procs. That's kind of a bummer, was a free ice lance every 20-25 seconds. That sucks. AFAIK we haven't lost anyone yet. I'm assuming that will change (first post-Christmas raid is Sunday) -- if not ON Sunday, probably after we spend days wiping on bladelord and beyond due to healer issues. I know I've considered quitting our raid a couple times just because it runs an hour or so later than I'd like with my work schedule and all.