AT World of Warcraft Thread (Cataclysm, Where do you play, General BS and all that)

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blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
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I don't hate WoW, I still like it. That being said, I really agree with you - Vanilla / TBC were my favorite because it was new, magical, and there was a sense of adventure. I know some disagree but I really dislike the fact that you can do everything via queue these days, it is pretty silly. I like exploring. I like world pvp. What I don't like is sitting in orgrimmar and being able to do everything in the game from a mere menu. The obvious counterargument is that people who don't have enough time prefer the queue system. Well this is a RPG folks...whatever.

Furthermore, I really dislike that the difficulty is severely lowered these days - I suspect most people will claim "rose colored lenses" but the game really was more difficult and rewarding back then. The heroics were actually _hard_ when TBC was first released, although they nerfed them about 5 months after. The best PVE gear was reserved for the best guilds - you didn't see joe keyboard turning clicking idiot with the best pve gear. Now the obvious counterargument, I don't have enough time to raid. Oh, the casuals are "entitled" to best in slot heroic gear even though they don't have time to raid. Yeah.... Again, this is a RPG.....whatever.

Lastly, the raid design has taken a nosedive. Naxx at level 60 was pretty amazing, the atmosphere was great and very, very few guilds completed naxx at level 60. If you only did the level 80 version do not speak because naxx at 60 was difficult to complete, naxx at 80 was a "gimme". Dragon Soul heroic is ridiculously easy and can be finished in about 30 minutes. What a joke. The vast raids of the old days are gone, instead we get 30 minute raids catered to casuals who complain that they can't play for more than 5 minutes a day.

I guess the game is just old to me. I still like it and play it, but the "magic" factor is long gone. I really want something new. GW2 almost nails it, but not quite. I guess MMOs are really wearing on me....
 
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nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
I think it's a delicate balancing act... the problem with the old game is that they were devoting large amounts of resources to developing content that only a fraction of the players would ever see, and with things like group quests -- they weren't challenging players, they were just making players skip them. the leveling zones have been empty since BC was released.

I dislike the fact that 10's and 25's have the same loot tables now, but I'm still a big fan of the LFG system. pre-LFG, I just didn't run instances because it wasn't worth the headache to beg guildmates or sit around in Org for an hour trying to put together a group.

I'm looking forward to MoP tonight, though. I more or less missed out on Cat because I quit the game (combination of burnout in ToGC/ICC plus real life factors like moving, dating someone who didn't game, etc). MoP will be a nice reset, and I think it will have a different feel from Cat, putting all the new zones on the same continent again.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
Well I can certainly agree with you there - it is a balancing act. I wish there was an answer in between the two extremes, I hate feeling like I can play the entirety of the game by sitting in orgrimmar in queue. On the other hand, some people enjoy that type of system of queueing and easier raids. I dunno what the correct answer is.

I also plan on playing MoP, although this time i'm going to take my time with levelling to hopefully enjoy it more. I levelled to 80 in like 2 days when wrath hit..never doing that again.
 

diesbudt

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2012
3,393
0
0
I don't hate WoW, I still like it. That being said, I really agree with you - Vanilla / TBC were my favorite because it was new, magical, and there was a sense of adventure. I know some disagree but I really dislike the fact that you can do everything via queue these days, it is pretty silly. I like exploring. I like world pvp. What I don't like is sitting in orgrimmar and being able to do everything in the game from a mere menu. The obvious counterargument is that people who don't have enough time prefer the queue system. Well this is a RPG folks...whatever.

Furthermore, I really dislike that the difficulty is severely lowered these days - I suspect most people will claim "rose colored lenses" but the game really was more difficult and rewarding back then. The heroics were actually _hard_ when TBC was first released, although they nerfed them about 5 months after. The best PVE gear was reserved for the best guilds - you didn't see joe keyboard turning clicking idiot with the best pve gear. Now the obvious counterargument, I don't have enough time to raid. Oh, the casuals are "entitled" to best in slot heroic gear even though they don't have time to raid. Yeah.... Again, this is a RPG.....whatever.

Lastly, the raid design has taken a nosedive. Naxx at level 60 was pretty amazing, the atmosphere was great and very, very few guilds completed naxx at level 60. If you only did the level 80 version do not speak because naxx at 60 was difficult to complete, naxx at 80 was a "gimme". Dragon Soul heroic is ridiculously easy and can be finished in about 30 minutes. What a joke. The vast raids of the old days are gone, instead we get 30 minute raids catered to casuals who complain that they can't play for more than 5 minutes a day.

I guess the game is just old to me. I still like it and play it, but the "magic" factor is long gone. I really want something new. GW2 almost nails it, but not quite. I guess MMOs are really wearing on me....


Add in the fact dungeons used to be more designed.

Look at Kharazhan, or Stratholm, or Scholo and how much design went into each area/room. Kharazhan especially. It was AMAZING just running around the place after a full clear looking at everything and gettign a sense of it.

BWD/BoT/DS ... Yes... Each boss has their own dungeon room that is pretty bleak and is circular or rectangular in some way. So interesting... Where was teh adventure from 1 corridor to another or the visual enhancment of each room?
 

diesbudt

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2012
3,393
0
0
I think it's a delicate balancing act... the problem with the old game is that they were devoting large amounts of resources to developing content that only a fraction of the players would ever see, and with things like group quests -- they weren't challenging players, they were just making players skip them. the leveling zones have been empty since BC was released.

I dislike the fact that 10's and 25's have the same loot tables now, but I'm still a big fan of the LFG system. pre-LFG, I just didn't run instances because it wasn't worth the headache to beg guildmates or sit around in Org for an hour trying to put together a group.

I'm looking forward to MoP tonight, though. I more or less missed out on Cat because I quit the game (combination of burnout in ToGC/ICC plus real life factors like moving, dating someone who didn't game, etc). MoP will be a nice reset, and I think it will have a different feel from Cat, putting all the new zones on the same continent again.


I ddin't say what they did was a bad business decision. Just that the feel of WoW is very different and imo, MoP is the first expansion in which I have not bought. As Other games have given me something similar to that original WoW feeling that I have enjoyed.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
You're right on the money about Karazhan, it is one of the best designed raids of all time IMO. I remember going through that place for the first time just being in awe of the little touches everywhere - they really don't do this kind of thing anymore. Dragon Soul focuses completely on having good boss mechanics while totally ignoring the atmosphere and art design of the dungeon itself. The design and atmosphere is important - blizzard completely ignores that these days.

I really don't like to sound like a "hater" because I still like WoW ...but man...I hate some of the stuff they've done to the game.
 

diesbudt

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2012
3,393
0
0
You're right on the money about Karazhan, it is one of the best designed raids of all time IMO. I remember going through that place for the first time just being in awe of the little touches everywhere - they really don't do this kind of thing anymore. Dragon Soul focuses completely on having good boss mechanics while totally ignoring the atmosphere and art design of the dungeon itself. The design and atmosphere is important - blizzard completely ignores that these days.

I really don't like to sound like a "hater" because I still like WoW ...but man...I hate some of the stuff they've done to the game.

Oh yea. Karazhan... just wow. The dinner room with Moroes. I remember week 1 raiding with my guild, we finally get in there and first thing my mind goes is "OH holy shit" Dinner tables with ghosts everywhere AND we can run on top of and such (no invis walls) making it kinda cool fight scene. Add in Moroes had a learning curve with 10 players vs 4 mobs + moroes... Difficult yet fun encounter for the most part.

All the bookshelves, with books everywhere made me think of a run down tower that has seen some... fights break out in the past.

Shade of arans room. A library. PERFECT scenery, and the fight mechanics were amazing for that fight.

Prince fight, allowing random luck part of the gaem with infernals. That made the world of difference for fun with him. Because you HAD to keep an eye out on where to move as a group, not single player not standing in fire.

And chess.... what an amazing novelty game boss fight.
 

cronos

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 2001
9,380
26
101
While I haven't raided regularly since mid-WotLK, This will be the first WoW expansion pack I'm not getting at release day. It is ironic because I absolutely love all the changes they have made with the game.

Pretty much everything they did changed the game to fit what my play style would have been... if I had a subscription. Unfortunately the time I have to play games these days does not justify the monthly subscription for me.

Double suckage because I was really looking forward to this particular expansion too.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
You're right on the money about Karazhan, it is one of the best designed raids of all time IMO. I remember going through that place for the first time just being in awe of the little touches everywhere - they really don't do this kind of thing anymore. Dragon Soul focuses completely on having good boss mechanics while totally ignoring the atmosphere and art design of the dungeon itself. The design and atmosphere is important - blizzard completely ignores that these days.

I really don't like to sound like a "hater" because I still like WoW ...but man...I hate some of the stuff they've done to the game.

oh hell yeah. one of the scariest things too was the upside down sinners when you went in the hidden part. i still wish they would have used that section.

i still enjoy playing but i agree some of the stuff i don't like.


I was going to get the expansion. but had emergancy bills and have to put it off until the 3rd =( damnit
 

Ashenor

Golden Member
May 9, 2012
1,227
0
0
Kind of sucks i have the day off tomorrow, but have a phsyical collector edition at gamestop, they are not doing a midnight release. So i won't be able to play till 10 am :/. I would do the digital but i have all the boxed copies of the collector editions so would like to keep that going.
 

zokudu

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2009
4,364
1
81
oh hell yeah. one of the scariest things too was the upside down sinners when you went in the hidden part. i still wish they would have used that section.

i still enjoy playing but i agree some of the stuff i don't like.


I was going to get the expansion. but had emergancy bills and have to put it off until the 3rd =( damnit

Sucks. I'm glad this expansion is only 40. I seem to remember all the other ones running 60.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
I'm not sure if I fully agree with some of the comments posted about Vanilla. I think the biggest difference isn't in the game, but rather the mindset of the player. When I go into a new expansion, I don't even care about the leveling areas... it's all about the new raids, baby! That is the difference. I didn't know anything about "Molten Bore" when I first started WoW, and no one really talked about it until 5+ months after the games release (remember how the guild that first beat it got banned because Blizzard thought they hacked?).

I think this same mindset shift has affected us in other areas too. We used to PVP for fun with Southshore vs. Tarren Mill, but now we do it because we care about points, points, points! Gotta get my points! There were many times that I would skip doing something that I found the most fun simply because it wasn't as efficient in getting me to my end goal (honor points or whatever).

I do agree with the cross-server stuff killing the local fun. However, I think our mindset shift affected that too. We gradually pushed away from the idea of a WoW community as servers got larger and larger. My old server (Lightning's Blade) had a pretty healthy forum and we had our own IRC room... it was a ton of fun!

Kind of sucks i have the day off tomorrow, but have a phsyical collector edition at gamestop, they are not doing a midnight release. So i won't be able to play till 10 am :/. I would do the digital but i have all the boxed copies of the collector editions so would like to keep that going.

I ordered from Amazon, so I definitely won't be playing until later. :p However, the next day is my birthday, and I'm most likely taking the day off. Although, I also have Borderlands 2 and Torchlight II that are all vying for my time. It doesn't matter that I'm paying for WoW since I'm stuck paying until October anyway.
 

diesbudt

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2012
3,393
0
0
I'm not sure if I fully agree with some of the comments posted about Vanilla. I think the biggest difference isn't in the game, but rather the mindset of the player. When I go into a new expansion, I don't even care about the leveling areas... it's all about the new raids, baby! That is the difference. I didn't know anything about "Molten Bore" when I first started WoW, and no one really talked about it until 5+ months after the games release (remember how the guild that first beat it got banned because Blizzard thought they hacked?).

I think this same mindset shift has affected us in other areas too. We used to PVP for fun with Southshore vs. Tarren Mill, but now we do it because we care about points, points, points! Gotta get my points! There were many times that I would skip doing something that I found the most fun simply because it wasn't as efficient in getting me to my end goal (honor points or whatever).

I do agree with the cross-server stuff killing the local fun. However, I think our mindset shift affected that too. We gradually pushed away from the idea of a WoW community as servers got larger and larger. My old server (Lightning's Blade) had a pretty healthy forum and we had our own IRC room... it was a ton of fun!



I ordered from Amazon, so I definitely won't be playing until later. :p However, the next day is my birthday, and I'm most likely taking the day off. Although, I also have Borderlands 2 and Torchlight II that are all vying for my time. It doesn't matter that I'm paying for WoW since I'm stuck paying until October anyway.


I think you described most of what I said in a different fasion. Because i believe the game changed our mindsets for us. In vanilla you didn't do things that were not fun. Some people famously ganked the same exact zone for months on end (Tokro on Nathrezim... STV was his alliance hunting ground, any and all alliances felt his bullet no matter what level. SOOO much QQ in SW from it that teams of 10+ would go hunting for him in return) because it was fun. Some people quested and explored, because it was for fun.

Gear wasn't really needed because Raids were not big/not at the beginning of WoW. BC is when raids shined I believe. Difficult, great looking and starting to find unique mechanics for bosses. Some 10 mans and some 25 mans, all fun.

But yes, all the changes they made to the game I beleive shaped our mindset. Arenas and pvp gear with "resilence" forever changed our mind from "fun pvp" to "How can I get the best glad gear because this resilience stat is so damn important". Endgame orientated, and no explore and enjoy the solo/group aspects and meeting people orientation with the ques/menus.

etc.
 

Ashenor

Golden Member
May 9, 2012
1,227
0
0
I ordered from Amazon, so I definitely won't be playing until later. :p However, the next day is my birthday, and I'm most likely taking the day off. Although, I also have Borderlands 2 and Torchlight II that are all vying for my time. It doesn't matter that I'm paying for WoW since I'm stuck paying until October anyway.

Ya i will play TL2 and BL2 some tonight go to sleep somewhat early then play refreshed for once i guess rather then being up all night and waiting to login for a hour.

I have literally stayed in the bubble on this expansion. Is there more then one starting zone like Cata, or does it sound like its pretty much a zone to zone leveling experience?
 

tHa ShIzNiT

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2000
2,321
8
81
who else is stayin up tonite?? I usually go to sleep around 12:30-1 anyways so i'll be up. Gonna try and get in an hour or so and then painfully wait til after work on tuesday to really dig in. I can't wait though, pretty stoked. Surprised there arent more people posting on here but the game has really waned with other stuff coming out. Still, I think they have the best product out there MMO-wise and this expansion is gonna draw a ton of people back into it.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
I think I'm going to be the one person that goes to GameStop tonight for Dead or Alive 5. :biggrin:

I think you described most of what I said in a different fasion.

I think my overall message was that it wasn't just the game that changed players, but I think the influx of casual players helped push the game. These casual players expected to play the same content that the serious raiders played, but that sort of concept was very foreign in MMOs. In previous entries, the games were significantly less forgiving than WoW, and even though WoW did alleviate that some, it wasn't entirely roses and puppy dogs (as you mentioned).

Ya i will play TL2 and BL2 some tonight go to sleep somewhat early then play refreshed for once i guess rather then being up all night and waiting to login for a hour.

I have literally stayed in the bubble on this expansion. Is there more then one starting zone like Cata, or does it sound like its pretty much a zone to zone leveling experience?

I'm probably not even going to play it... I'm not even sure why I'm buying it to be honest. :p I might just level my characters and quit as my year commitment will finally be up. I did want a normal boxed copy so I can use the box as part of a gag gift with my brother. He quit the game, so I'm going to put the actual gift inside the Mists of Pandaria box.
 

Ashenor

Golden Member
May 9, 2012
1,227
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I'm probably not even going to play it... I'm not even sure why I'm buying it to be honest. :p I might just level my characters and quit as my year commitment will finally be up. I did want a normal boxed copy so I can use the box as part of a gag gift with my brother. He quit the game, so I'm going to put the actual gift inside the Mists of Pandaria box.

LMAO thats pretty funny. Ya i have not played in awhile, i am gonna lvl to 90, attempt not to raid but we will see.
 

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
Administrator
Nov 30, 2005
50,231
117
116
You guys going to create a new thread for the pandas tomorrow? Let me know and I can sticky it, with a link to this old thread. Or we can leave it all here if you want. Let me know what works for you.

KT
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
who else is stayin up tonite?? I usually go to sleep around 12:30-1 anyways so i'll be up. Gonna try and get in an hour or so and then painfully wait til after work on tuesday to really dig in. I can't wait though, pretty stoked. Surprised there arent more people posting on here but the game has really waned with other stuff coming out. Still, I think they have the best product out there MMO-wise and this expansion is gonna draw a ton of people back into it.

it's hard being on the East Coast, but I'm going to try :thumbsup:

took a nap this afternoon, and might make a Dunkins run for an extra large coffee around 2 am
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
LMAO thats pretty funny.

Oh, I take my gags quite seriously! I'm planning on opening the box from the bottom to ensure the top (the end we look at the most) looks as legit as possible. I might need to see if I can find a new round, plastic sticker so I can just replace the old one.

With one of my exes, she used to give me crap for eating old people cereal (Grape Nuts especially). She misplaced her digital camera, and I bought her a replacement one for her birthday. Well, I packed it up in a Grape Nuts box and used super glue on the top so it felt like it will unopened.

The look on her face when she unwrapped the present was priceless! "You... got me Grape Nuts." :biggrin: ...and with that, I wonder why she's an ex! :hmm: :p

Ya i have not played in awhile, i am gonna lvl to 90, attempt not to raid but we will see.

My guild is going to be raiding, which is going to tempt me. I enjoy raiding, but honestly... I'm enjoying the freedom of not having to schedule my game time.
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
126
Ironically, I still see the same mindsets playing this game all my 8+ years (or however old this game is at this point, I keep forgetting haha.)

Perhaps because I've always considered myself a casual player and only did things I found FUN regardless what the world was doing around me.

I started raiding seriously during my WOTLK run, because by that point I pretty much did everything I wanted to do (craft, explorer the world, grind too many alts, and blah.) There was nothing left for me to do but raid.

My previous attempts at raiding ended horribly because of the elite mindset of raid 5 days a week, four hours a day. That isn't a game - that's a part time job. Eff that I said, grind more alts.

I find it amusing reading comments of people who complain a game is gets boring after you realize they've invested 200-300+ hours considernig the game is only around 400 hours old haha.


I didn't know I can experience THE whole game from a town via queue. I guess I've been grinding my alts wrong. Hell, playing other games I'm glad we have a queue system. I can run off and explore/grind some quests while my DPS toon sits in Queue-Hell. But that's just me, seems I like options. I hated having to wait in town to form a group. Did it add to social interaction? Sure did. "LF1M DPS for X-Dungeon/Instance PST." "Healer, I'll go." "Sorry, just need one more DPS." "okay." Spam that for 20 minutes and deny healers, tanks, and a DPS who wants to bring their healer. Yeah, I sure miss them days, haha.

I get the feeling Panda will be my shortest expansion. Less new content, and once I've had my fill all that will be left is raiding. Woof.
 

DooKey

Golden Member
Nov 9, 2005
1,811
458
136
You guys going to create a new thread for the pandas tomorrow? Let me know and I can sticky it, with a link to this old thread. Or we can leave it all here if you want. Let me know what works for you.

KT

I think a new thread would be appropriate.
 

Ashenor

Golden Member
May 9, 2012
1,227
0
0
Oh, I take my gags quite seriously! I'm planning on opening the box from the bottom to ensure the top (the end we look at the most) looks as legit as possible. I might need to see if I can find a new round, plastic sticker so I can just replace the old one.

With one of my exes, she used to give me crap for eating old people cereal (Grape Nuts especially). She misplaced her digital camera, and I bought her a replacement one for her birthday. Well, I packed it up in a Grape Nuts box and used super glue on the top so it felt like it will unopened.

The look on her face when she unwrapped the present was priceless! "You... got me Grape Nuts." :biggrin: ...and with that, I wonder why she's an ex! :hmm: :p



My guild is going to be raiding, which is going to tempt me. I enjoy raiding, but honestly... I'm enjoying the freedom of not having to schedule my game time.

Same i have not raided in 6 months or so, having not to commit to it is nice. I may lead my 10 man again, i have about 6 people interested and just do a casual/hardcore 2 nights a week lmao, will see.
 
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