At what point will we no longer need sound cards?

[archcommus]

In other words, what chipset is going to deliver good enough onboard audio with at least 5.1 output support without sacrificing mic and line-in ports so we won't need a card at all? Are any current chipsets already delivering this? My nForce 4 board has Realtek ALC850 audio, and I've read it's still not up to par with an Audigy 2.

 

[OSX]

It's integrated audio. It will likely never be up to par with a high-end soundcard. That's the point of the sound card.

 

[mbeleni]

I stayed on my NF7-S for more than three years. One of the reasons which kept me using the Nforce2 was for the Soundstorm audio. It was an excellent solution, better than even some of the cards on the market at the time of its availability. I think it was cut from future revisions of Nforce to save on manufacturing cost, which is a real shame.

 

[HannibalX]

I have onboard sound with all three of my systems (two desktops and one notebook). The sound isn't great like with a Creative product but I am to the point where it doesn't bother me anymore.

 

[Conky]

I've always believed that one day computers will evolve to the point where the processor can handle all of the tasks like sound and video. Hopefully with enough cores and proper coding of programs this will happen some day.

I remember my first "3D" card and it wasn't a whole lot better than running in software mode. Bring back software mode and let me throw some multiple cores at it!

 

[Ages120]

Well biggest thing computer sound cards like the Audigy/X-fi series have going for them is that game makers will take advantage of their capabilities which are often covered by patents, but free to use if you have the hardware. A lot of on board sound that isn't AC-97 can easily sound just as good for music or movies on even the best 7.1 setups though.

When everyone decides to take the leap to digital output and input then I am sure motherboards wouldn't mind having only 2 jacks. If the industry adopts a new form factor standard, seeing a mother board with 7 audio jacks might be possible.

 

[oynaz]

When playing back audio, the integrated audio are fast catching up with sound cards.
When recording, a decent sound card blows integrated audio away.

 

[Aluvus]

Originally posted by: Beachboy
I've always believed that one day computers will evolve to the point where the processor can handle all of the tasks like sound and video. Hopefully with enough cores and proper coding of programs this will happen some day.

I remember my first "3D" card and it wasn't a whole lot better than running in software mode. Bring back software mode and let me throw some multiple cores at it!

You are much more likely to see the emergence of multi-core products wherein some of the cores are dedicated video and/or audio processors. AMD's Fusion is intended to meld general-purpose processing and video processing onto a single piece of silicon. The reason hardware acceleration is such a big deal is that GPUs are architected better for that particular kind of task, and they wildly outperform a modern CPU when used for that purpose.

To the OP's question: another of AMD's projects, Torrenza, is moving toward the use of specialized coprocessors (which might include audio processing) that simply drop into a socket. So in a literal sense, that type of solution (if the idea takes off) might be the eventual doom of the actual sound card. The functionality could also eventually be integrated into the processor, if the trend toward centralization really gains traction.

The sticking point for sound is the actual output hardware. One of the things that may distinguish a good sound card from a bad one is the DAC hardware, which converts the digital signal that the computer has been working with into its final, analog form. And I would imagine the noise concerns of running an analog signal very far in a computer motherboard (or the need to amplify the signal adequately) could create some issues. That is, unless a digital audio format (such as S/PDIF) gains popularity. With the current push by content providers for a transition to digital formats for as much of the playback chain as possible, it could very well happen.

 

[RaiderJ]

I've been happy with on-board audio for years. Haven't had much of a reason to look at any Creative sound cards in some time. I think their stranglehold on the market and their expensive pricing will make them irrelevant before too long.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

I think soundcards are always going to offer something or other that integrated sound will not give you.

Gaming cards, "Audiophile" cards, and cards with a ton of I/O will have a use for a long time I think.

 

[Smartazz]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
I think soundcards are always going to offer something or other that integrated sound will not give you.

Gaming cards, "Audiophile" cards, and cards with a ton of I/O will have a use for a long time I think.

The same could probobly be said about high end video cards.

 

[Ika]

Originally posted by: Aluvus
The sticking point for sound is the actual output hardware. One of the things that may distinguish a good sound card from a bad one is the DAC hardware, which converts the digital signal that the computer has been working with into its final, analog form. And I would imagine the noise concerns of running an analog signal very far in a computer motherboard (or the need to amplify the signal adequately) could create some issues. That is, unless a digital audio format (such as S/PDIF) gains popularity. With the current push by content providers for a transition to digital formats for as much of the playback chain as possible, it could very well happen.

Along with the above bolded statement, I believe that the electronic noise inside a computer case can degrade sound quality. If you read sound card manuals, they basically tell you to install the card as far away as possible from other components. This is also one of the reasons for external DACs; although they are entirely outside of the computer case, the effect is essentially the same.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Smartazz

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
I think soundcards are always going to offer something or other that integrated sound will not give you.

Gaming cards, "Audiophile" cards, and cards with a ton of I/O will have a use for a long time I think.

The same could probobly be said about high end video cards.

For videocards, I would have to say their future is far more certain. While most people use computer speakers that tend to be rather crappy, computer displays have tended to be of quite high quality for displays. With resolutions that are far above non-computer displays and games that will continue to scale up in complexity, I think videocards are always going to be a must unless some new limiting factor comes into play.

Soundcards on the other hand, I could see as a dying breed unless computer speakers really start to get better. For most people I think their sound quality is hitting a bottleneck in their speakers while their video system doesn't have the issue as much with their monitors. With video I think it's more about functionality than quality.

 

[WobbleWobble]

Originally posted by: mbeleni
I stayed on my NF7-S for more than three years. One of the reasons which kept me using the Nforce2 was for the Soundstorm audio. It was an excellent solution, better than even some of the cards on the market at the time of its availability. I think it was cut from future revisions of Nforce to save on manufacturing cost, which is a real shame.

The problem with Soundstorm is that it was often paired up with a cheap Realtek DAC and most users used the analog speaker outputs. Even SoundMax had better audio quality on analog.

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: OSX
It's integrated audio. It will likely never be up to par with a high-end soundcard. That's the point of the sound card.

True.
It's also true that some users require multiple inputs for sound. That's something that will never be "onboard" Not everyone uses their PC for gaming or watching DVDs.

 

[Auric]

I, for one, would be perfectly content without the cost and space inherent to good analog output and would rather just have digital along with a decent mic and line in. So, HDMI (up to 8ch uncompressed PCM) with OpenAL support could mix things up by negating most of the need for other output (analog and S/PDIF) and serve the majority at both the higher-end (external decoder/amp entertainment setup) and the low-end (PC speaker) simultaneously. Then the only need amongst home users for a card would be the minority keen on creation (recording) and/or proprietary gaming extensions (which will hopefully be supplanted by equivalent open standards).

 

[corkyg]

I have already reached that point. I learned a couple of years ago that sound quality from an embedded chipset is as good or better when patched LINE OUT to a good quality stereo amp and speakers (not cheesy computer speakers.,

 

[AllGamer]

the problem with any INTEGRATED audio is the mobo BUS it shares the same BUSes with every other I/O on the mobo.

even if they put in a Creative SB X-FI into the mobo, it will not work as good as it can, against the very same card on an expansion slot

 

[Noubourne]

For me, the point at which I no longer needed a sound card was 2001, the last time I bothered to buy one. It crackled like a mofo, I removed it, and the problem was solved. Never bought another one.

4.1 is plenty for me for gaming.

 

[willtriv]

wow. I can't even stand onboard for music. I download all flac and mp3 320. I can't handle the slightest of artifacts. Running music on onboard is like using a record player and then using your bose 802's on a 900 watt yahama amp from a cd when you use audigy.

Not even to mention the lack of hardware mixing in integrated solutions. Without their prop. drivers there is no mixing The only way to get multiple I/O streams in linux is either analog mixing , multiple sound cards, or audigy
Audigy allows me quake4/et/ut2004 + team speak just like windows users!

 

[imported_RedStar]

The problem with integration ..is that if one tiny thing goes or becomes obsolete (eg sound), then you have to upgrade the entire kit and not just the defunct/faulty component. It is one of the reasons that i still love a desktop more than a laptop.

So...i hope we always have add on sound ... graphics..and so on.

 

[corkyg]

Originally posted by: RedStar
The problem with integration ..is that if one tiny thing goes or becomes obsolete (eg sound), then you have to upgrade the entire kit and not just the defunct/faulty component. It is one of the reasons that i still love a desktop more than a laptop. So...i hope we always have add on sound ... graphics..and so on.

Valid points, however, when it comes to good, solid, sound repro, I haven't seen too many things that would render good external equipment obsolete. However - should that happen, then it is very easy to put in a current sound card.

My point is, that good acoustic music reproduction won't sound any different on a good external system. I'm not considering the gimmicky sounds craved by gamers. Just solid, top quality music reproduction.

Laptop sound basically sucks - too small - no depth. That's why I use an external Audigy 2NX on my laptop again, patched into a good external sound system with good speakers.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Originally posted by: willtriv
wow. I can't even stand onboard for music. I download all flac and mp3 320. I can't handle the slightest of artifacts. Running music on onboard is like using a record player and then using your bose 802's on a 900 watt yahama amp from a cd when you use audigy.

Seems like a perfect match to me....

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune

Originally posted by: willtriv
wow. I can't even stand onboard for music. I download all flac and mp3 320. I can't handle the slightest of artifacts. Running music on onboard is like using a record player and then using your bose 802's on a 900 watt yahama amp from a cd when you use audigy.

Seems like a perfect match to me....

I don't even understand what he's trying to say.

Record Player - mostly limited to "audiophile" use now
Bose - yeah...
900 watt Yahama (Yamaha?) amp - Does Yamaha even make a 900 watt amp?
CD - standard

EDIT: They do http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=200109&CTID=5002400

 

[her34]

Originally posted by: Auric
I, for one, would be perfectly content without the cost and space inherent to good analog output and would rather just have digital along with a decent mic and line in. So, HDMI (up to 8ch uncompressed PCM) with OpenAL support could mix things up by negating most of the need for other output (analog and S/PDIF) and serve the majority at both the higher-end (external decoder/amp entertainment setup) and the low-end (PC speaker) simultaneously. Then the only need amongst home users for a card would be the minority keen on creation (recording) and/or proprietary gaming extensions (which will hopefully be supplanted by equivalent open standards).

i was also hopeful that hdmi would make surround sound more common in pc's. but i doubt that's going to happen.

1) Unified Display Interface (UDI) was developed specifically to bypass hdmi to avoid the licsensing fees. UDI does not support audio, it's a video interface only. hdmi will not be common

2) hdmi would only help the connection problem. the bigger problem at hand is the software problem. creative owns too many patents on 3d sound processing. ID tried to go software sound with doom3, but creative sued them and forced them to integrate eax in a patch.

there is no alternative api to eax. the only hope was was msft, maybe if they ported their xbox api to vista and dx10 but msft seems to have abandoned sound for vista, only caring about drm.


basically pc gaming sound is dead and creative is the culprit. a company should not be allowed to own the hardware and software, it kills competition