At what point is an Athlon X2 just too old?

[AstroManLuca]

My system is currently configured as such:

Mobo: DFI Infinity NF570 M2-G (nForce 570, socket AM2, single PCIe)
CPU: Athlon X2 Brisbane 4800+ (2.5 GHz, 512kb x 2) oc'd to 3.0 GHz (possibly higher once I install my Xigmatek 1283 later today)
GPU: Radeon HD3850 512 MB
RAM: 4 GB Corsair DDR-800
HDD: 250 GB (boot) and 500 GB (storage) Seagate 7200.10
Monitor: 20" 1680x1050

The only demanding thing I use my computer for is gaming, and my most demanding game is Company of Heroes (for now). I'm aware that upgrading my graphics card would still be worthwhile, and would likely provide a larger benefit than a CPU upgrade. On the other hand, I know I'll have to upgrade my CPU sooner or later.

Keeping in mind that my primary use for this system is gaming, how much would I benefit from upgrading my CPU? Core 2 Duos seem to be much, much faster than my current CPU according to all the benchmarks I've seen, they overclock really well, and they're not even that expensive.

Another problem is my motherboard is kind of old and even with BIOS updates it's not compatible with many (or any?) AM2+ CPUs. Can't even use the X2 7750. So I pretty much have to buy a new board unless I want to stick with standard AM2 CPUs.

 

[SunnyD]

This seems to keep coming up...

If you're building a new system that's going to require a new platform (ie: you're not reusing either your motherboard or CPU), I highly suggest building Core i7 if you have the budget for it. Mobo + i7 920 + RAM is going to run you about $600 give or take, but the long term benefits will be bar none the best choice.

On the other hand, if price is your major concern, an AM2+ board + Phenom II 920 will be a decent investment, but at the same rate you'll want a new video card or two. The nice this about this route is that you'd be able to reuse your current CPU and RAM for a while if you want to spread out your upgrades.

At this stage, with the prices as consideration, I'd skip C2Q unless you're going with a low end CPU (Q8200?) and low end board to make the budget work.

 

[LoneNinja]

I personally don't think the Athlon X2 is too old for gaming. It's more in general that duel core is starting to show its age against games. The only games I see the Athlon X2 struggling to run are games that benefit from more than 2 cores. Sure the C2D pulls higher frame rates, especially when overclocked, but even it struggles in some games compared to a lower clocked Quad.

 

[geokilla]

It'd be too slow when your games get severely bottlenecked by the CPU. Just crank up the detail such as AA and AF.

3Ghz is about the tops for an X2, so don't expect to get much more. I gave my old X2 rig with a X850XT to my sister and I currently use my rig in sig, and truth be told, I don't notice a big difference in speed except for when I'm benchmarking, encoding some videos (rarely), and running Folding@Home.

And since you're gaming on a 20" you could, in my opinion, upgrade to a ATI 4870 and still keep the same CPU, while getting great FPS in your games.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Sounds good. Hopefully my new cooler will at least keep my case a bit quieter and maybe I can squeeze another 100-200 MHz out of the CPU.

Since I am not very well-versed in how CPUs affect gaming, could someone explain how to test it? What settings are not strongly affected by the CPU and which ones are?

 

[StinkyPinky]

Personally I think your system is still perfectly fine for gaming and you should hold off on any upgrade.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
Personally I think your system is still perfectly fine for gaming and you should hold off on any upgrade.

I agree; I would like to upgrade my GPU at some point to run most games better (right now I can run anything new but it doesn't always run that well) but I will stick with my processor and everything else as they are now. The GPU would be the most effective upgrade for me anyway, not to mention the most portable. I'm saving up for other stuff right now though so the GPU won't get bumped just yet.

Still, could someone help me determine how CPU affects gaming? Like I said I'm just not that knowledgeable in that area and I don't know how to tell the difference between a CPU bottleneck and a GPU bottleneck.

 

[imported_seferio]

Grab a Radeon 4830. They're < $100 now and would be a cheap step up from your 3850. If you're running 3Ghz+ on a X2 then you should be fine for a bit longer.

 

[NoSoup4You]

3Ghz should be okay, but I saw huge gains when upgrading from an X2 4400+ (s939) @2.6Ghz to my E8400, even when the 8400 was still at stock speeds. I mean HUGE gains. It's no joke, the C2D at 3.0Ghz+ is light years ahead of anything an X2 could hope for, and games are demanding that cpu power nowadays.

I could rifle off the list of games I play and the gains I saw, but it's not really necessary since the info is out there already. Suffice it to say, I upgraded only about 5 weeks ago and it's easily been a better upgrade than when I grabbed a GTX260 and fitted it into my existing X2 system in mid December. I did see a performance increase with it on the AMD rig, but my minimum framerates were atrocious and it would fluctuate drastically between high fps and the low, low minimums. And certain maps in Crysis Wars wouldn't run over 22-23fps no matter how low I dropped the settings and resolution. I mean 800x600 all medium ran the same as 1600x1200 with all High settings. Cpu bottleneck for sure. Now I pull 45-50fps on those same maps, with all High settings and some at very high.

I say grab a cheap intel motherboard and an E7400, together they should run you $200. You can keep everything else. Overclock that sucker to 3.6Ghz+ and enjoy.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

I had an X2 @ 3 ghz, 8800gt, 4 gb ram. I dropped in a Phenom 9850 (clocked at 2.75 ghz) and my FC2 benchmark went from ~38fps to ~53. 1680x1050, everything set to "high", no AA.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Originally posted by: NoSoup4You
...certain maps in Crysis Wars wouldn't run over 22-23fps no matter how low I dropped the settings and resolution. I mean 800x600 all medium ran the same as 1600x1200 with all High settings. Cpu bottleneck for sure. Now I pull 45-50fps on those same maps, with all High settings and some at very high.

Sounds like if my CPU is the bottleneck, then games will be slow even at low settings/resolution. Makes sense.

I'll look into Intel mobos/CPUs but I may end up waiting for i7 to come down anyway because my next expensive purchase is going to be a Pioneer touchscreen nav for my car. I've got a raise in store at my job and I might just celebrate and get a new CPU as well.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: LoneNinja
I personally don't think the Athlon X2 is too old for gaming. It's more in general that duel core is starting to show its age against games. The only games I see the Athlon X2 struggling to run are games that benefit from more than 2 cores. Sure the C2D pulls higher frame rates, especially when overclocked, but even it struggles in some games compared to a lower clocked Quad.

it is way too old

my friend has Athlon 6000+ and it is killing his minimum framerates with GTX280-SLi in Clear Sky [dx10 'ultra' 16x10!]

my own *single* GTX280/e8600@4.0 Ghz [at the time] was waaaay faster; my quad blows them both away
.. not to mention 4870-X2 paired with a fast CPU compared to my friend's [he is getting Phenom II very soon]

the CPU is important and should not be minimized even with a GTX280 class card

 

[cusideabelincoln]

If the board supports it, drop the Phenom 8750 Black Edition in it and overclock that sucker. The Phenoms are much more efficient per clock than the Athlon X2s, although they aren't quite as efficient as the Core 2. However, you will get an extra core with the 8750, which may (and eventually will) make up for its lack of speed in comparision to Core 2 processors.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Originally posted by: cusideabelincoln
If the board supports it, drop the Phenom 8750 Black Edition in it and overclock that sucker. The Phenoms are much more efficient per clock than the Athlon X2s, although they aren't quite as efficient as the Core 2. However, you will get an extra core with the 8750, which may (and eventually will) make up for its lack of speed in comparision to Core 2 processors.

Unfortunately, my motherboard (DFI Infinity NF570-M2/G) does not support anything better than what I already have. The only Phenom it supports is the X3 8400, which is 2.1 GHz. I can't even find it anywhere... the 8450 seems to have replaced it. Either that or DFI's site is wrong and they meant 8450.

Either way, I'm not sure it's worth upgrading to an 8450 for $90 when I really need to just upgrade the motherboard to something at least halfway modern. Then it's just a decision between AM2+ (Phenom X4, Phenom II) and LGA 775 (C2D, C2Q). I'm sure future games will take more advantage of quad-core but I'm skeptical enough about the short term that Core 2 Duo looks pretty attractive.

 

[SlowSpyder]

How do your games run in your opinion? If not so good, then I'd look at upgrading. Looking at benches of newer/better hardware has a tendency to make people feel they need to upgrade before they may really need too...

 

[LoneNinja]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: LoneNinja
I personally don't think the Athlon X2 is too old for gaming. It's more in general that duel core is starting to show its age against games. The only games I see the Athlon X2 struggling to run are games that benefit from more than 2 cores. Sure the C2D pulls higher frame rates, especially when overclocked, but even it struggles in some games compared to a lower clocked Quad.

it is way too old

my friend has Athlon 6000+ and it is killing his minimum framerates with GTX280-SLi in Clear Sky [dx10 'ultra' 16x10!]

my own *single* GTX280/e8600@4.0 Ghz [at the time] was waaaay faster; my quad blows them both away
.. not to mention 4870-X2 paired with a fast CPU compared to my friend's [he is getting Phenom II very soon]

the CPU is important and should not be minimized even with a GTX280 class card

I don't disagree that the CPU is important, but the question was simply is the Athlon X2 to old to game on. Sure a C2D can pull a better frame rate, but it still runs on the Athlon doesn't it?

Some one asks me for advice on a gaming processor I wouldn't recommend a K8 anymore, but I personally don't see a need to replace my Athlon X2, I don't have any problems running my games yet.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Well GTAIV will give you a huge boost in performance if you went with a quad. I even think GTA likes Phenom processors, such that you would get better framerates with the Phenom 9850 as opposed to the Core 2 Duo E8400, although the E8400 should still be competitive unlike your current Athlon X2.

If you are satisfied with your current performance, then the best thing to do is to just wait it out.

 

[AstroManLuca]

I have GTA IV on my 360 so I don't plan on getting it for PC. However, in all my most demanding games (Company of Heroes, COD4, BioShock), I find that I can seemingly run them just fine unless a lot is going on at once. Then things start to get a bit slow. I also tend to run them at lower settings in multiplayer than in single player. Source engine games run perfectly even at really high settings with AA and AF. But with most of my other games, I skip the AA and keep AF low, just enough to make it not look terrible. I usually mess around with certain other settings too, though I don't know all of them well enough to be able to decide which give me the most benefit.