At what point do you admit defeat and try to get help for mental health?

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Whisper

Diamond Member
Feb 25, 2000
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Medications and psychotherapy can both be useful, with research showing relatively equivalent efficacy between the two in depression (although the pharm studies have really begun coming under fire recently). The issue is that we don't know nearly enough about how or why the medicines work, so any theory about "chemical imbalance" is just that at this point--theory, and may not represent the best or most accurate way of viewing what's going on.

I of course do believe that individuals struggling with symptoms of depression show altered brain activity compared to individuals not struggling with depression; saying otherwise would just be faulty, given that in the end, everything boils down to brain activity. I also believe that there are likely genetically-based components that may predispose one to being more likely to experience depressive symptoms, particularly in the presence of precipitating events (although these same predispositions are likely highly multi-faceted, may not be specific to depression, and may be protective against other conditions). Beyond that, though, we don't know nearly enough about how the brain works to say much of anything. Heck, we don't even truly understand all the mechanisms by which talk therapy works; we just know it does.

Regarding psychosis in particular--for those interested, you should look into the long-term efficacy research around anti-psychotic medications, as well as the advances in cognitive and behaviorally-based therapies in individuals struggling with severe and persistent mental illness.
 

KlokWyze

Diamond Member
Sep 7, 2006
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www.dogsonacid.com
That's a good point. We CAN imagine cases in which pharmacological treatment (including naturally occurring psychotropics, particularly of the entheogen class, some of which have been shown to have therapeutic benefit) would be necessary.

I'm not advocating a black-and-white, 'drugs are bad, therapy is good' approach to psychiatry. What I object to is the standard practice of prescribing powerful psychoactive pharmaceutical drugs for all different kinds of psychoses and individual presentations, without first trying psychological treatment and without being made aware of drugs' limitations/dangers. Your counterexample where somebody may actually need a medication as a sort of first step illustrates my viewpoint well, which is that ultimately, treatment of psychological disorders should adopt a holistic approach that considers a) the whole person (mind and body) and b) the individual situation. Everybody's solution is different - it's the nature of a psychological problem. Too often people are given cookie cutter treatment that only considers the imbalance in the brain.

EDIT: And I still think that all psychological disorders are fundamentally psychological in nature, though some fundamentally psychological disorders may require physiological treatment. That's because I accept the arguments for some form of metaphysical idealism.

I think you're sort of taking his points as some sort of absolute statement, rather than simply treating it as a point that rationally refutes your basic viewpoint/approach.

The psychological & physical are completely inseparable. They are the same. To say that they are fundamentally psychological as opposed to physical is just sort of .... retarded. Medications are tool to be used when needed. Nothing more. Talking about root causes of issues like this is a bit of a chicken/egg scenario if you ask me. Your basic attitude, while I agree with the sentiment, is just sort of naively idealistic.

Some people are born without limbs or with extra eyeballs. You're telling me, people can't be born with even SLIGHTLY different brain structures that can make them more susceptible to depression? :|

The OP's OP is really the internal ramblings of most normal people. EVERYONE freaks out about some shit or is insecure about some things. It's just normal. Seeing a professional might be a good choice. Hopefully they are good at what they do.

@OP
Good luck w/ getting better. All you got to do is focus on what makes you happy long-term. The problem is that we get into these patterns and "earn" all these obligations that keep us from refocusing our energy on doing whatever those things are.
 

MrColin

Platinum Member
May 21, 2003
2,403
3
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IMO, depression can ALWAYS be treated psychologically. The problem is fundamentally psychological, not physical.

I agree. I've been depressed for around 30 years with all the symptoms described by the OP, and more.

Things that have helped me.
1 Counseling, somebody that can help you train yourself to recognize when you are kicking yourself into the hole.
2 Improved diet, extra b-vitamins
3 Increased exercise (sounds like OP gets some already, try ramping it up even more).
4 Counseling

I don't think "antidepressants" are good or even safe. Drug development and medicine are not all that we would like them to be.
 
Mar 22, 2002
10,483
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I agree. I've been depressed for around 30 years with all the symptoms described by the OP, and more.

Things that have helped me.
1 Counseling, somebody that can help you train yourself to recognize when you are kicking yourself into the hole.
2 Improved diet, extra b-vitamins
3 Increased exercise (sounds like OP gets some already, try ramping it up even more).
4 Counseling

I don't think "antidepressants" are good or even safe. Drug development and medicine are not all that we would like them to be.

Approaching this from more of a medical approach, medications are sometimes necessary. I think many individuals who haven't taken depression haven't had the degree of depression that some individuals have. Severe depression is almost impossible to manage without actually modifying the neutrotransmitters within the brain. They're safer than consistent suicidal thoughts, but carry significant side effects. Honestly, I've seen people on both side of the dilemma who have depression and the majority of those on medication had significantly worse depression than those not on them.
 

Whisper

Diamond Member
Feb 25, 2000
5,394
2
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Approaching this from more of a medical approach, medications are sometimes necessary. I think many individuals who haven't taken depression haven't had the degree of depression that some individuals have. Severe depression is almost impossible to manage without actually modifying the neutrotransmitters within the brain. They're safer than consistent suicidal thoughts, but carry significant side effects. Honestly, I've seen people on both side of the dilemma who have depression and the majority of those on medication had significantly worse depression than those not on them.

Thing is, behavior (including cognition) necessarily modifies what the brain does (including how/when/where neurotransmitters are released) as well, hence the effectiveness of psychotherapy.

That being said, in cases of severe depression, as another poster mentioned, medication can help the individual achieve a baseline level of motivation necessary to allow active participation in therapy. Would they have gotten their on their own without the medication? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. At the very least, the medication allows the person to achieve a feeling of success related to the fact that they've done something to address their problems.