At the dealership. Buying my first bike!

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Oh I also forgot taxes he'll be paying on top of the $2000 loss in value of the 250. He will have to pay taxes on the 250 then when he gets a bigger bike, which he will, he's gonna eat the taxes on that bike too. He could avoid hundreds in taxes by just buying a decent bike to begin with.

 

[StageLeft]

The future. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNin0ATI6Zg

 

[Zargon]

Oh I also forgot taxes he'll be paying on top of the $2000 loss in value of the 250. He will have to pay taxes on the 250 then when he gets a bigger bike, which he will, he's gonna eat the taxes on that bike too. He could avoid hundreds in taxes by just buying a decent bike to begin with.

I dunno about taxes where OP or you live, but in IL, its 25 bucks on used vehicles......

again, if you dont want to lose $$, dont buy a new bike. dont buy a new any vehicle for that matter

 

[halik]

Oh I also forgot taxes he'll be paying on top of the $2000 loss in value of the 250. He will have to pay taxes on the 250 then when he gets a bigger bike, which he will, he's gonna eat the taxes on that bike too. He could avoid hundreds in taxes by just buying a decent bike to begin with.

I know several people that picked up used ninja 250s, but on 2-4K on them and sold em for the same price. I think there even was a guy on the form that ended up braking even on it.

If you buy a used bike with stable resale price, your depreciation loss will be minimal.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Where's all the "250's can resell for what you paid for them" guys. Lol!

We're all assuming that people can read and were able to tell that we were saying that about a used 250 which means only a complete idiot would use a new bike as a refutation.

250's are a complete waste of metal.

Not for someone who's big enough that they don't need a bike to compensate.

ZV

 

[JulesMaximus]

Oh I also forgot taxes he'll be paying on top of the $2000 loss in value of the 250. He will have to pay taxes on the 250 then when he gets a bigger bike, which he will, he's gonna eat the taxes on that bike too. He could avoid hundreds in taxes by just buying a decent bike to begin with.

We get it...you're a big man who can handle a big powerful bike.

 

[Throckmorton]

I want to know where this desire to get a motorcycle came from in the first place.

 

[madeuce]

Not for someone who's big enough that they don't need a bike to compensate.

ZV

How big do you have to be to ride a 250?

http://www.robmacdougall.org/route96/2006/08/03/ride-of-the-minibike-twins/


This shits getting hilarious. People don't ride motorcycles because they are safe. A complete guess, but I bet that many/most people don't ride motorcycles because they are economical.

If you don't have a fast bike you are a pussy, if you do have a fast bike you have a small penis... Looks like it's a lose lose situation.

How about we just ride the bike we want, and watch for the real danger on the road which is small females driving lifted hummers...

 

[halik]

I want to know where this desire to get a motorcycle came from in the first place.

130lb asian kid with emotional issues?

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

*sigh*

I fucked up. I can't back out of the deal because I already signed papers (despite not even getting a test ride in). The dealership is far away and I thought for sure that with a $3K list price I'd be able to get an OTD price of $4K. When I got there the extra $600 handling fee got me, pushing the OTD price to $4700, and I was on the spot - had just driven an hour and a half to get there, felt like I'd be wasting all this time if I didn't sign anything, and, well, I signed. And now I'll be picking up the bike later today for a price that I don't like (a cool sounding guy is selling his 2009 Ninja with 3.5K miles for $3500 and I can't buy that now).

Dammit dammit dammit. After buying my first new car, the Honda Fit, and falling for the finance department's pressure for added services I figured I wouldn't make the same mistake on this bike, which I didn't - I didn't buy any added services - but I still came out with a bad deal because I didn't know about the full range of added fees beforehand and caved into the feeling of not wanting to turn a 3 hour roundtrip drive into a total waste.

 

[madeuce]

It happens, grats on your bike anyway. Just ride the hell out of it and get your $4,700 worth

 

[Demon-Xanth]

At this point, make sure you get your money's worth. Ride it until you collapse with giddiness.

 

[Zenmervolt]

How about we just ride the bike we want.

I'm right with you there.

Unfortunately too many morons think a 600cc supersport is a good starter bike. It's one thing to like whatever you happen to like, but it's another to make ridiculous and, frankly, dangerous recommendations to someone who has never ridden a motorcycle before in his life. If FBB wants a 600cc supersport eventually, that's great. He's welcome to ride whatever he likes. That doesn't change the fact that he'll be better off learning basic riding skills on a 250cc bike to start with.

You don't start out a new rider on a 600cc supersport, even an older one, for the same reason that you don't start out a new driver on a 427 Cobra. Those machines simply present far too many opportunities to go beyond what a novice is capable of dealing with. While some people have done such things and made it through, there is no changing the fact that it's a sub-optimal path to put it mildly.

I've got nothing against the guys who have a few years of experience under their belts and decide they want to step up to a 600 so they can use it for track days as well as on the street, but those people don't recommend 600cc supersports as beginner bikes either.

In my experience, there are only two types of people who recommend 600cc supersports to first-time riders:

1) The merely ignorant. These people often don't ride or are unfamiliar with sportbikes. They don't understand that 600cc bikes are thinly-veiled racing machines and they don't fully appreciate what 100hp can do with a 350 pound bike. To them, a 600cc engine seems small, especially compared to the modern liter and larger bikes.

2) Those with something to "prove". These people wouldn't be caught dead recommending a 250 and take great pleasure in letting everyone know this. Often this type of rider will also call police "pigs" and will defend idiots who stunt or pop wheelies on public roads. Basically, this sort of rider uses his bike to prove his manhood; a 250cc bike is a girl's bike and their ego can't handle the thought of admitting that a 250 is a better beginner bike than the supersport they chose, let alone recommending one.

ZV

 

[Demon-Xanth]

427 Cobras are great learner cars!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNLpZdDz-1k

 

[SViper]

I'm right with you there.

Snip...

ZV

I tell you ZV. I've seen you post this in at least 10 threads over just the past 2 weeks. You should get a macro created with an automated response.

I'm still relatively new to riding, and I completely agree with you. Even though I ride a cruiser (Honda VTX1300C), I can see how a bike can chew you up and spit you out if you out if you aren't careful.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

I tell you ZV. I've seen you post this in at least 10 threads over just the past 2 weeks. You should get a macro created with an automated response.

I'm still relatively new to riding, and I completely agree with you. Even though I ride a cruiser (Honda VTX1300C), I can see how a bike can chew you up and spit you out if you out if you aren't careful.

Yeah, I totally agree with ZV after the MSF class. What's scary is that I am literally the only student who will be going out and getting a 250 for a first bike. The general consensus in the group of students was:

1. A 250 won't be able to go on the highway.
2. A 250 doesn't have enough power.

After seeing how shitty some of these guys were riding the little 250 practice cycles in the class, I am worried about where they will end up. Especially this one Indian guy who would routinely forget to turn off the bike whenever we were parked in formation (in the staging area) and:

1. Tipped the bike over like I did by forgetting to put down the kickstand.
2. Accidentally goosed the throttle, almost hitting the guy parked in front of him.
3. Would stall. A lot.

At the end he was convinced that a 250 has too little power.

 

[StageLeft]

*sigh*

I fucked up. I can't back out of the deal because I already signed papers (despite not even getting a test ride in). The dealership is far away and I thought for sure that with a $3K list price I'd be able to get an OTD price of $4K. When I got there the extra $600 handling fee got me, pushing the OTD price to $4700, and I was on the spot - had just driven an hour and a half to get there, felt like I'd be wasting all this time if I didn't sign anything, and, well, I signed. And now I'll be picking up the bike later today for a price that I don't like (a cool sounding guy is selling his 2009 Ninja with 3.5K miles for $3500 and I can't buy that now).

Dammit dammit dammit. After buying my first new car, the Honda Fit, and falling for the finance department's pressure for added services I figured I wouldn't make the same mistake on this bike, which I didn't - I didn't buy any added services - but I still came out with a bad deal because I didn't know about the full range of added fees beforehand and caved into the feeling of not wanting to turn a 3 hour roundtrip drive into a total waste.

Assuming you're not trolling (funny how many people caveat their responses to you with that, isn't it), until you've picked it up I bet you're not on the hook for anything. At Toyota recently the guy wanted me to sign something that looked an awful fvcking lot like a "I agree to buy" to me but he said regardless of this doc you are not on the hook for _anything_ until delivery. He was probably telling the truth (BTW, I pulled down my pants, laid my junk out and said I am not signing this as it does not benefit me so tough cookie). What exactly have you agreed to? What happens if you tell the guy sorry I will never see you again?

Of course, these are questions a reasonable person would ask or know the answer to, so perhaps somebody else who peruses this thread could use the info.

 

[StageLeft]

Yeah, I totally agree with ZV after the MSF class. What's scary is that I am literally the only student who will be going out and getting a 250 for a first bike. The general consensus in the group of students was:

1. A 250 won't be able to go on the highway.
2. A 250 doesn't have enough power.

After seeing how shitty some of these guys were riding the little 250 practice cycles in the class, I am worried about where they will end up. Especially this one Indian guy who would routinely forget to turn off the bike whenever we were parked in formation (in the staging area) and:

1. Tipped the bike over like I did by forgetting to put down the kickstand.
2. Accidentally goosed the throttle, almost hitting the guy parked in front of him.
3. Would stall. A lot.

At the end he was convinced that a 250 has too little power.

They are right, the 250 is too weak. Its top speed is like only 100 mph or so and 0-60 sub 6 seconds, pathetic. You need to be on minimum 1100 CC (otherwise just stay home). If you're taking even 4 seconds to hit 60 you can't keep up with traffic (fact). And top speed must be at least 140 or else why are you even bothering, you'll be passed on the highway by tour busses.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Yeah, I totally agree with ZV after the MSF class. What's scary is that I am literally the only student who will be going out and getting a 250 for a first bike. The general consensus in the group of students was:

1. A 250 won't be able to go on the highway.
2. A 250 doesn't have enough power.

After seeing how shitty some of these guys were riding the little 250 practice cycles in the class, I am worried about where they will end up. Especially this one Indian guy who would routinely forget to turn off the bike whenever we were parked in formation (in the staging area) and:

1. Tipped the bike over like I did by forgetting to put down the kickstand.
2. Accidentally goosed the throttle, almost hitting the guy parked in front of him.
3. Would stall. A lot.

At the end he was convinced that a 250 has too little power.

Proof they can go on the highway just fine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlAGdAlAOFA

 

[SViper]

Yeah, I totally agree with ZV after the MSF class. What's scary is that I am literally the only student who will be going out and getting a 250 for a first bike. The general consensus in the group of students was:

1. A 250 won't be able to go on the highway.
2. A 250 doesn't have enough power.

After seeing how shitty some of these guys were riding the little 250 practice cycles in the class, I am worried about where they will end up. Especially this one Indian guy who would routinely forget to turn off the bike whenever we were parked in formation (in the staging area) and:

1. Tipped the bike over like I did by forgetting to put down the kickstand.
2. Accidentally goosed the throttle, almost hitting the guy parked in front of him.
3. Would stall. A lot.

At the end he was convinced that a 250 has too little power.

Keep an eye out for the news. Sounds like they make the news in a bad way.

I commend you for sticking with the 250. If this is something you truly enjoy, you will move up to a larger bike when/if you are ready.

Gotta learn how to walk before you can run.

 

[GhettoPeanut]

Love how all the first time bike buyer threads turn into wars over what CC bike to get.
who cares if he gets a 250, if he started with a 650 he's probably going to hurt himself, and starter bikes can be resold easily since so many people are looking for them. I'm getting my first bike soon, i'm not breaking 500cc, not after everything I've read. Keep it for a year, sell it, upgrade.

Best thing I've read to date.
http://www.beginnerbikers.org/showt...ls-Function-Sportbikes-are-Not-Beginner-Bikes

 

[madeuce]

Z, you conveniently left out 2 groups of people that may recommend a 600.

1) The people that bought a smaller bike and didn't have fun on it because it wasn't what they hoped for. They ended up taking a loss, and buying a bigger bike.

2) The people that started out on a super sport and had a great experience with them.

You can ignore them all you want, but they are there.

I bought my 650r and in a year moved on to a 600. I don't have much street experience at all, about 6,500 miles between the two bikes, with no more than 100 miles on any other street bike I've ridden combined. Haven't dropped the bike, no accidents either. Only close calls I have had were other drivers on the road not seeing me.

Some people aren't mature enough to do that. Some people are.

One of my friends that rides a CBR1000. He suggested that I start street on a 600. If I would have listened to him I would have a couple more grand in my pocket than I do right now.

I got the 650 because it's not as fast and I don't regret it, but I would have been just fine if I had started with the 600 to begin with.

 

[madeuce]

Love how all the first time bike buyer threads turn into wars over what CC bike to get.
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Might have something to do with people trash talking anyone who doesn't agree with them instead of just making their argument.

 

[Zenmervolt]

I tell you ZV. I've seen you post this in at least 10 threads over just the past 2 weeks. You should get a macro created with an automated response.

When you've been riding for a decade and a half, the response basically becomes a mental macro. Every summer I see it. Hasn't changed for better or worse since I've been riding despite what some older and more curmudgeonly riders might say (yes, believe it or not there are people out there who are more curmudgeonly than I am).

1) The people that bought a smaller bike and didn't have fun on it because it wasn't what they hoped for. They ended up taking a loss, and buying a bigger bike.

If a person can't have fun on a 250, he or she needs to learn how to ride. Maybe try something other than a freeway; roads with corners, stuff like that.

People who can't appreciate a 250 are like the people who can't appreciate the Miata; these tend to be folks with limited skills who, rather than working to increase their skills so they're able to enjoy great-handling but low-power vehicles, decide instead to go for more power in the straight line.

A 250 will whip through a 25 mph corner at 45-50 with a good rider just fine, but a bad rider will blame the 250 for his lack of ability.

2) The people that started out on a super sport and had a great experience with them.

I already addressed this group of people in my previous post. The majority of people who start on a 600 and come back with tales of how great it was are doing so because they won't admit that they'd be better riders if they'd started out on something smaller.

It's not about merely surviving, it's about being a good rider. And all too often the people who start out on supersports end up like the guy I was stuck behind yesterday; flying away from my Sportster in the straights and then ending up with me right back up his tailpipe as soon as the road went twisty because he was slowing to 10 under for the corners.

If a rider is interested in developing his skills in the best way possible, starting out on a 250 or a 500 (or even the new 650r) is the way to do it.

A Ninja 650R runs 0-60 in 3.8 seconds and turns the quarter in 12.06. There's no way that someone can ride to the limit of the 650's capabilities on the street if he's obeying the laws. Hell, I can't ride to the limit of my Harley's capability on the street without breaking the law.

Fast bikes are wonderful things, but they are very far from the ideal learning vehicle for new riders.

ZV

 

[Zargon]

Z, you conveniently left out 2 groups of people that may recommend a 600.

1) The people that bought a smaller bike and didn't have fun on it because it wasn't what they hoped for. They ended up taking a loss, and buying a bigger bike.

2) The people that started out on a super sport and had a great experience with them.

You can ignore them all you want, but they are there.

I bought my 650r and in a year moved on to a 600. I don't have much street experience at all, about 6,500 miles between the two bikes, with no more than 100 miles on any other street bike I've ridden combined. Haven't dropped the bike, no accidents either. Only close calls I have had were other drivers on the road not seeing me.

Some people aren't mature enough to do that. Some people are.

One of my friends that rides a CBR1000. He suggested that I start street on a 600. If I would have listened to him I would have a couple more grand in my pocket than I do right now.

I got the 650 because it's not as fast and I don't regret it, but I would have been just fine if I had started with the 600 to begin with.

a 650R is definately not a 600cc supoersport, completely different bikes, the 650r is way friendlier.

it actually has more power down low

600cc supoersports are crappy around town bikes, I would know. I will probably never own another one as a streetbike again, but will get one for the track only and ride hopefully a bigger twin streetbike from aprillia .

I really want a bking to daily ride, but they are a bit porky for me

for the record, I ride a 06 R6r, and its my 5th(or 6th?) bike. had my license for 5 or so years, started on a 550 vtwin.

Ive had a ninja 250 as well, loved it. I lost it in a garage fire, and if I can weasel one back into the garage I will!