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AT&T pays no tax, they get a refund instead

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Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,548
649
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You know what we all understand, that a company making record profits should not be getting a multi-hundreds of million dollars refund from a government that is sinking, especially when that company sent a huge portion of it's production to a slave labor camp in a communist country.
/facepalm

Sad commentary on many that post here.
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
6,805
1,544
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You know what we all understand, that a company making record profits should not be getting a multi-hundreds of million dollars refund from a government that is sinking, especially when that company sent a huge portion of it's production to a slave labor camp in a communist country.
Comments like this pretty much always stem from the fact that the person writing them doesn't understand what depreciation really is, what it accomplishes, what operating losses are, and why tax accounting differs from GAAP accounting. I mean, you could just open up AT&T's 2011 10-K report and see that they actually accrued $2.5 billion in tax liabilities for 2011 which will be paid as GAAP reconciles to tax accounting, but no, it's easier to get all blustery and sputter "But, but, but CORPORATIONS!",
 

Pr0d1gy

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2005
7,776
0
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So you really think our government should be paying companies tax returns to operate in this country?

Why are corporations even paying taxes or getting returns to begin with? They aren't people. Maybe if the people in this country actually paid a decent tax rate at every income level and there were no loopholes or way to dodge paying them, then we could get rid of the idiotic idea of taxing businesses. Taxing the company and taxing the business seems a lot like double dipping.

Either way, there is no reason for a company with billions in revenue to get hundred of millions back in returns, even if they did pay it and depreciation and "operating losses" created a loophole for them to get that money back.

Our tax codes are one of the biggest problems with this country.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,548
649
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So you really think our government should be paying companies tax returns to operate in this country?

Why are corporations even paying taxes or getting returns to begin with? They aren't people. Maybe if the people in this country actually paid a decent tax rate at every income level and there were no loopholes or way to dodge paying them, then we could get rid of the idiotic idea of taxing businesses. Taxing the company and taxing the business seems a lot like double dipping.

Either way, there is no reason for a company with billions in revenue to get hundred of millions back in returns, even if they did pay it and depreciation and "operating losses" created a loophole for them to get that money back.

Our tax codes are one of the biggest problems with this country.
/more facepalm

You do know that this tax legislation helped small companies expand their businesses also, correct?
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
6,805
1,544
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So you really think our government should be paying companies tax returns to operate in this country?
Nobody's claiming that the government is somehow "paying" AT&T to do business here, and if they were claiming that they'd be an idiot. When you pay your personal income taxes, if you have too much withheld, do you expect to get the overpayment back? If you made a mistake and correct it, do you expect to pay or receive the difference to the corrected amount? The logical answer says yes, so welcome to AT&T's world. Due to prior year overpayments and corrections they paid too much in 2011 and got their money back.

Why are corporations even paying taxes or getting returns to begin with?
Because it's part of the morals and ethos of pretty much every civilized nation on the planet that business entities are "citizens" of society, benefit from its contributions, and consume its resources and so should contribute to its operation.

They aren't people. Maybe if the people in this country actually paid a decent tax rate at every income level and there were no loopholes or way to dodge paying them, then we could get rid of the idiotic idea of taxing businesses. Taxing the company and taxing the business seems a lot like double dipping.
That's pointless. Not only is there little or no mathematical difference whether a business and its owner each pay 5% or whether just the owner pays 10% (which is what you're advocating) but by removing the distinction you eliminate fairly effective social and economic stimulus measures such as business capital being tax deferred to spur investment, which grows employment and GDP/GNP.

Either way, there is no reason for a company with billions in revenue to get hundred of millions back in returns, even if they did pay it and depreciation and "operating losses" created a loophole for them to get that money back.
There's no reasoning with that. You've just impliedly taken the position that taxes should be based on revenue regardless of profitability and changes in circumstances are irrelevant so long as the tax code fulfills your warped sense of "fairness". You went from advocating no business taxes to advocating that businesses pay out the butt in good times and then pay out the butt in bad times.

I work in an industry where the government has tried to implement such a "no lose" situation for itself and frankly, we're preparing for it to be an unmitigated financial disaster (and I work for a government!).
 

Pr0d1gy

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2005
7,776
0
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Because it's part of the morals and ethos of pretty much every civilized nation on the planet that business entities are "citizens" of society, benefit from its contributions, and consume its resources and so should contribute to its operation.
Every single employee of every single business pays taxes. The whole idea that businesses are people is a complete joke as well.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,276
103
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Threads like this make it abundantly clear that most (surely including the author of the article) have absolutely no clue what they are talking about when it comes to tax accounting and tax law.

Someone sees a headline without understanding the underlying dynamics and seeks to spread their ignorance-born outrage. ZOMG! ATT got money from government! Outrage! /facepalm
 
Nov 29, 2006
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Stop trying to alter the tax code to make profitable corporations pay even more in taxes you fucking liberals. The job creators are getting taxed to death while middle class/lower class dregg bleed this country fucking dry.
BWAHAHA...yeah "taxed to death". They sure look poor. I mean just yesterday i saw the CEO of Starbucks panhandling on the corner in Seattle. Poor bastard should know better than to be a CEO.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
19,131
1,995
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Did anyone look at the site that did the policy study? A site that advocates a maximum wage is not a site I would turn to for a fair and balanced report on corporate taxes
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
5
0
Every single employee of every single business pays taxes. The whole idea that businesses are people is a complete joke as well.
Until changed; it is the law of the land.

I would like such to be changed to exclude companies and unions.

But until that is done; such is what we are stuck with.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,324
4
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I don't see where it says ATT paid no income tax. I do see the refund info, however, that is quite a likely a refund of the estimated tax they paid in over-and-above the actual tax. I.e., they over estimated the actual amount of tax they would owe.

I'm not sure which "accelerated depreciation" rule(s) they are referring to, but in general these rules are enacted to encourage businesses to purchase equip etc to help the economy. This type of deduction is not fictitious in any way (like statutory depletion), they actually paid out cash money for the equipment. So, I don't understand criticism of the depreciation deduction, whether "accelerated" or not. In any case, it's merely a question of timing. They are going to be able to deduct the total cost of the new equipment, the question is over how years.

I don't understand why we would compare income tax expense and CEO salary. I don't see any real relevance.

(Note: I briefly looked at the PDF summary. Since they refer to every tax deduction mentioned as a "loophole" I can't give them much credence. They clearly don't even know what a loophole is.)

Fern
This. All of this. Hey, guess what Libs, the government uses the tax code to influence the economy.
 
Feb 24, 2001
14,551
4
81
So you really think our government should be paying companies tax returns to operate in this country?

Why are corporations even paying taxes or getting returns to begin with? They aren't people. Maybe if the people in this country actually paid a decent tax rate at every income level and there were no loopholes or way to dodge paying them, then we could get rid of the idiotic idea of taxing businesses. Taxing the company and taxing the business seems a lot like double dipping.

Either way, there is no reason for a company with billions in revenue to get hundred of millions back in returns, even if they did pay it and depreciation and "operating losses" created a loophole for them to get that money back.

Our tax codes are one of the biggest problems with this country.
So you're saying that if a company pays $5 billion in taxes, then at a future date realizes their liability will only be $4.5 billion, the government should just keep the extra $500 million they paid?

Hint, in financial threads, pay attention to Fern, Capt Caveman and CPA. I post too much incoherent bullshit to be taken seriously :p
 

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