At least we in the west don't have political prisoners

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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
http://vimeo.com/25113282

Karl Rove involved in this persecution, no charges, 6 months so far. Disgusting.

No reason to post generic hate for the guy in this thread, it's pointless and not the topic. The topic is the issue of using the justice system to oppress for political reasons.

It looks like China. We used to be able to point fingers at their house arrests. Bonus video:

http://www.commondreams.org/further/2011/06/28-1
 
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BoomerD

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,565
14,971
146
He should just be summarily executed.

Quit beating around the bush...quit stalling and get it done.

Craig, if you don't think the US has used the justice system to oppress for political reasons...you haven't been paying attention.
(BTW, this isn't just politics...the guy is a criminal who should be put to death for his crimes against the USA and other nations.)
 
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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Boomer, I think that's nuts for a number of reasons. Some button of yours got pushed.

Most people would say we don't 'use the justice system to oppress for political reasons', and I'm glad to say it's rare, but important to note if it does.

Michael Moore, of course, is at Guantanamo while the CIA had a double replace him.

Assange might have his flaws, but our government secrecy has far larger ones. And the benefits in the Middle East wikileaks triggered have been massive.

Edit:

Darn it I should not derail my own thread, this is not to discuss Assange, but the justice system issue.
 
Jimmah

Jimmah

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2005
1,243
2
0
BoomerD said:
He should just be summarily executed.

Quit beating around the bush...quit stalling and get it done.

Craig, if you don't think the US has used the justice system to oppress for political reasons...you haven't been paying attention.
(BTW, this isn't just politics...the guy is a criminal who should be put to death for his crimes against the USA and other nations.)
Click to expand...

I always find it amusing when people say shit like this. What crimes has he commited? Do you believe this should be the same punishment for all journalistic and pseudo-journalistic entities? Since we're on the subject of death without trial, why stop with Assange?

The world would be a better place without people like you.
 
Sinsear

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,439
80
91
that is unless you want to help WikiLeaks make the world a better place.
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HAHAHAHA.

Wikileaks has done nothing to make the world a better place. But they have facilitated, aided, and abetted a traitor.
 
Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
36,123
10,433
136
Leaking classified war materials in the middle of that war.

He certainly deserves due process, but it should duly end in an execution.
 
BoomerD

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,565
14,971
146
Originally Posted by Craig234
Uh, Assange didn't leak anything. Manning allegedly did. Did Daniel Ellsberg leak the Pentagon Papers, or did the New York Times leak them?
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Manning should be tried for treason...and executed if found guilty.
 
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GarfieldtheCat

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2005
3,708
1
0
BoomerD said:
Manning should be tried for treason...and executed if found guilty.
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Yo genius, so what about all these press reports we get about Iran's nuclear program? Someone in the government or Pentagon is leaking that information, you support executing them as well?

And how about all the other "routine" leaks of information that various government officials and pentagon officers leak to the press for their own purposes? Wanna kill them too?
 
BoomerD

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,565
14,971
146
GarfieldtheCat said:
Yo genius, so what about all these press reports we get about Iran's nuclear program? Someone in the government or Pentagon is leaking that information, you support executing them as well?

And how about all the other "routine" leaks of information that various government officials and pentagon officers leak to the press for their own purposes? Wanna kill them too?
Click to expand...


"Leaking" government "secret or "Top Secret" information should always be punishable by death.

All too often, the
"routine" leaks of information that various government officials and pentagon officers leak to the press for their own purposes
Click to expand...
are done by low-to mid level worker bees trying to (a) make some think they're more important than they are, or (b) sold to the news agencies for cash or other compensation.

Occasionally, those "leaks" are intentionally done, fully sanctioned and ordered by the higher level officers/politicians, etc. for a specific purpose.

Politicians who leak information for political reasons; cause trouble for an opponent/opposing party, etc., should be tried for treason. The same goes for staffers who do so under the orders of their bosses.

Make the penalty for treason severe enough...and make enough examples of those who commit treason, and it will slow down...and maybe, just maybe, it will be eliminated.

Of course, I also support public execution of politicians who are convicted of corruption. Not just the Republicans, but ALL corrupt politicians. Not only do they steal money in one way or another, but they rape and pillage the public trust in the system.
 
C

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Boomer, I don't want to get into a lot of your comments in this post, but leaks are almost never by 'low to mid level worker bees'. The leaks are highest at the top. Presidents constantly leak, followed by senior officials like cabinet members and congressional leaders, all out for some agenda - sometimes to support the president, sometimes to hurt an enemy, sometimes against a competing agency (as when we had the CIA and military opposing each other about Chalabi in Iraq, leaking things about him).

You really need to get a better understanding of the benefits of whistleblowing and the problems of excessive secrecy not for the public interest but against it.

You ever watch 60 Minutes,for a little idea that whistleblowers can be good?
 
BoomerD

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,565
14,971
146
Whistleblowers CAN do good...but not in these situations.

Airing the government's dirty laundry in public can only lead to problems.

If the whistleblower is exposing corruption...then blow away...I'm all in favor of eliminating corruption in government. Military secrets...not so much.
 
M

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
BoomerD said:
Whistleblowers CAN do good...but not in these situations.

Airing the government's dirty laundry in public can only lead to problems.

If the whistleblower is exposing corruption...then blow away...I'm all in favor of eliminating corruption in government. Military secrets...not so much.
Click to expand...

Do you not see how you contradicted yourself right there?

One thing I strongly admire about the Left is their inherent distrust of gov't - such a distrust of gov't power is necessary to the safeguarding of personal liberty, IMHO. Now if only the Left weren't so darn selective about their distrust - that's their main problem!!
 
QuantumPion

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
Mursilis said:
Do you not see how you contradicted yourself right there?

One thing I strongly admire about the Left is their inherent distrust of gov't - such a distrust of gov't power is necessary to the safeguarding of personal liberty, IMHO. Now if only the Left weren't so darn selective about their distrust - that's their main problem!!
Click to expand...

The only leftists I know of that have a distrust of government are the 9/11 truther kooks.
 
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GarfieldtheCat

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2005
3,708
1
0
BoomerD said:
"Leaking" government "secret or "Top Secret" information should always be punishable by death.

All too often, the are done by low-to mid level worker bees trying to (a) make some think they're more important than they are, or (b) sold to the news agencies for cash or other compensation.

Occasionally, those "leaks" are intentionally done, fully sanctioned and ordered by the higher level officers/politicians, etc. for a specific purpose.

Politicians who leak information for political reasons; cause trouble for an opponent/opposing party, etc., should be tried for treason. The same goes for staffers who do so under the orders of their bosses.

Make the penalty for treason severe enough...and make enough examples of those who commit treason, and it will slow down...and maybe, just maybe, it will be eliminated.

Of course, I also support public execution of politicians who are convicted of corruption. Not just the Republicans, but ALL corrupt politicians. Not only do they steal money in one way or another, but they rape and pillage the public trust in the system.
Click to expand...

Wow, talk about the crazy. You would execute just about the whole pentagon, Congress, and federal government. :'(
 
G

GarfieldtheCat

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2005
3,708
1
0
BoomerD said:
Airing the government's dirty laundry in public can only lead to problems.
Click to expand...

Really? You would prefer the government to lie to you and keep the truth secret?

If the whistleblower is exposing corruption...then blow away...I'm all in favor of eliminating corruption in government. Military secrets...not so much.
Click to expand...

What do you do when the corruption is classified secret? You obviously haven't thought much about this have you?
 
Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
36,123
10,433
136
Craig seems to want to argue the point that Assange was only a middle man between the classified documents and the public. Is that a defense, can only the first man in a chain be prosecuted for this?

That's a curious and interesting idea.

Also:

Julian has not been charged with a crime in any country.
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No due process is quite a crime against civil rights. It is our duty as American citizens to demand due process. Though we'd like to see the man dead for what he has done, our country commits a crime against itself if it does not follow its own laws.

The treatment here is akin to a political prisoner, and this should not be. If our country can only handle this man by crimes of its own, then your duty is to demand he be set free.
 
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