At least five dead in shooting at PA Amish school

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: jdini76

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Jawo

Originally posted by: z42
The Amish have guns?

That's my first thought in reaction to this....what a sad state of affairs with all of the school shootings in the past few weeks.

why would that be your 1st thought. as someone said, guns aren't modern technology.
they hunt just like any normal person.

I don't think they hunt. They have Farms and therefore have live stock. And People who are normal don't generaly hunt nowadays. I consider myself normal and I don't hunt.

Are you intentionally trying to troll? There are a lot of normal people here who hunt. And, the Amish do a LOT of hunting (in general.)

 

[Azndude2190]

Schools should build metal detectors now at each of the school entrances/exits.And have regular security guards patrol the halls.I'm a senior at high school and things like this really scare me.But luckly security at my school is pretty good.Are security consists of non-armed/armed guards.Plus I believe there is actually a police officer who has his own office in adminstrative building.Plus the PD is a block east of are school.

A sad tragedy.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
The most reasonable is allow faculty to carry. As I said above, the current policies make it a "fish in the barrel" situation. You're stuck in a school and the only guy in the whole place with a gun is the guy intent on doing harm. AND the school is "locked down" so no one can get out.

Thats just pure genius isnt it?

Yep, pure genius to believe that locked down means no one can get out.


Incidentally, I'm all for allowing guns in school... There are some awesome ballistics experiments I could do in physics lab with the kids - calculating the muzzle velocity, momentum, etc. Fun stuff!

 

[altonb1]

:brokenheart:

May God give His peace to the families and friends of those affected.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: keeleysam
Daayyyyyyamn, what is up with all these school shootings?

Someone put forth a theory. Its a stretch, but then again.....

Many people are leaving cities to get away. They come to Colorado or some other state you choose. They bring their warped libtard beliefs and spoiled kids. Kids go crazy, havent been raised properly and pow. You get a school shooting.

People these days cant raise kids. They just dont know how. We are reaping what we sow, thats all. Its sad yes, but maybe parents need to actually RAISE their kids and quit using some hippie libtard "I'm their friend" logic.

As I said, just a theory put forth from elsewhere. Its a stretch, but then again........

'libtard'? I seriously hope you are not suggesting the concept of liberalism has caused this shooting? Becuase that has to be the dumbest thing I've heard this year.

You cheapen the death of many by spouting your ridiculous politics.

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Maybe they can use this (And the other incidents) to get CCW passed in the school.

Obviously making schoolsa "Gun free" zone is about the tardest of tard ideas you can come up with.

Oh yes, of course! We should give people in schools concealed weapons! Then there would be much fewer school shootings. Damn man, why didn't I think of that!

:disgust:

Yes, libtard. Where do you think all of our gun restrictions have come from? Aint the Repugs fella.
And while we're at it, why do you suppose kids do this crap? Because our current culture focuses on one thing. Do you feel good? Self esteem. NO ONE fails in school. As long as you feel good, its ok.
What happened to the days when you werent a ray of light, you werent the best? You were just another Joe, and if you step out of line you get your ass beat on? What happened to the days when you were held responsible for you, and no one is going to hold your hand and make sure nothing bad ever happens? What happened to the days when you werent the best, you werent special?

You can say its all political crap all you want but I ask you, name 1 school shooting that happened 40 years ago. One that happened 30 years ago. One that happened 20 years ago.

We have to face it, our culture is negatively affecting us! Until we realize that maybe this ongoing progressive thinking is HURTING us, this stuff will continue.

I'm not saying winding the clock back 1000 years in our thought processes and culture is the answer, but for damn sure what we're doing now surely isnt either.

And yes, let faculty carry guns. I ask again, whats your solution? Home schooling?

How bout this? Name one that happened in a modern and civilized country but outside of America. You can't, can you, because they don't happen outside America.

Why is this? Lets do a comparison between countries. Teke two with almost exactly the same culture - the USA and the UK. The USA has 4.08 gun homicides per 100000 people, while the UK has 0.12 per 100000. The difference between the two? The USA has more liberal gun laws. Oh yes - that's what 'liberal' means, not 'evil' as you seem to think, but free. Free to do as you wish. In the USA you are free to have a gun if you wish, and as some people think, free to shoot people with it.

Alternative explainations are welcomed. Preferably ones which do not revolve around your view that society itself has gone to hell in a kind of general way

Hey moron:

Mar. 13, 1996: Thomas Hamilton, 43, dressed in black and wearing earmuffs to protect himself from the noise, entered an elementary school in Dunblane, Scotland, and sprayed 105 bullets into the gym striking 29 people before killing himself. Sixteen five and 6-year-olds and a teacher died.

Or:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5346834.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanaa_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma%27alot_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erfurt_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Tom
"Regardless of peoples stand on number two, number one should be the first focus. It's VERY questionable rather state enacted 'gun-free school zones' violate state firearm rights in the same way that the federal gun-free school zones was struck down.."

It wasn't struck down because firearms "rights" can't be restricted/regulated, in fact the reason had nothing to do with guns at all. And the law was reenacted and is the law of the land today.

I take it back. I just rechecked and found the reapplied law signed under clinton. I somehow missed hearing about that.

Guess it's time for a federal case then.

Thanks for the headsup.

***

Ok, I read a little closer, and the new bill is considerably different than the original.

The new version does not affect home schools. It only affects primary and secondary schools, not post-secondary. The new version exempts anyone with a concealed license. While not ideal, neither is it so restrictive as to require immediate action against it.

So in effect, what I said before was accurate - it's the local and state laws which now prohibit concealed carry on school grounds, and not federal law.

That may be true, but your original point was the local and state laws might be overturned, for the reason the Federal law was, but that would be impossible because the reason was the origianl bill neglected to base itself on interstate commerce.

local and state law isn't based on the Constitution's commerce clause, it wouldn't make sense to say a state can't regulate commerce inside it's own borders.

 

[j00fek]

:Q

 

[sao123]

Since there seemed to be lots of conflicting reports about what happened: here is a summary.

5 Girls Dead in Amish School Shooting

By MARK SCOLFORO
Associated Press Writer

NICKEL MINES, Pa. (AP) -- Two more children died Tuesday morning of wounds from the shootings at an Amish schoolhouse, raising the death toll to five girls plus the gunman who apparently was spurred by a two-decades-old grudge.

The toll from the nation's third deadly school shooting in less than a week rose twice within a matter of hours Tuesday with the deaths of a 9-year-old girl at Christiana Hospital in Delaware and a 7-year-old girl at Penn State Children's Hospital in Hershey.

Five additional girls were hospitalized.

The Bush administration on Monday called for a school violence summit to be held next week with education and law enforcement officials to discuss possible federal action to help communities prevent violence and deal with its aftermath.

State police spokeswoman Linette Quinn said the two girls who died early Tuesday had suffered "very severe injuries, but the other ones are coming along very well."

The 9-year-old girl died about 1 a.m., and the 7-year-old girl died about 4:30 a.m.

"Her parents were with her," hospital spokeswoman Amy Buehler Stranges said of the 7-year-old. "She was taken off life support and she passed away shortly after."

Authorities said the gunman, Charles Carl Roberts IV, 32, wrote what authorities described as suicide notes, took guns and ammunition and went to a nearby one-room schoolhouse, where he opened fire on several girls and took his own life, authorities said.

Roberts, a father of three from nearby Bart Township and was not Amish, did not appear to be targeting the Amish and apparently chose the school because he was bent on killing young girls as a way of "acting out in revenge for something that happened 20 years ago," said state police Commissioner Jeffrey B. Miller.

"This is a horrendous, horrific incident for the Amish community. They're solid citizens in the community. They're good people. They don't deserve ... no one deserves this," Miller said.

The names of the dead were not immediately released.

Of the injured, a 6-year-old girl remained in critical condition and a 13-year-old girl was in serious condition at Penn State Children's Hospital, spokeswoman Buehler Stranges said. She said the names of the children were not being released.

Three girls, ages 8, 10 and 12, were flown to Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, where they were out of surgery but remained in critical condition, spokeswoman Peggy Flynn said.

Roberts brought with him supplies necessary for a lengthy siege, including three guns, a stun gun, two knives, a pile of wood and a bag with 600 rounds of ammunition, police said. He also had a change of clothing, toilet paper, bolts and hardware and rolls of clear tape.

He released about 15 boys, a pregnant woman and three women with infants, barred the doors with desks and wood and secured them with nails, bolts and flexible plastic ties. He then made the girls line up along a blackboard and tied their feet together.

The teacher and another adult fled to a nearby farmhouse, and authorities were called at about 10:30 a.m. Miller said Roberts apparently called his wife from a cell phone at around 11 a.m., saying he was taking revenge for an old grudge. Miller declined to say what the grudge could have been.

"It seems as though he wanted to attack young, female victims," Miller said.

Miller told NBC's "Today" that Roberts lost a daughter "approximately three years ago" and that that may have been a factor in the shooting.

He said a teacher had to run to a farm house to call police because there wasn't one at the school, in keeping with Amish custom.

Parents refused to fly in planes - again in keeping with Amish tradition - and had to be driven to see their children at hospitals, Miller told "Today." Some were taken to the wrong hospitals in the confusion, Miller said.

From the suicide notes and telephone calls, it was clear Roberts was "angry at life, he was angry at God," and co-workers said his mood had darkened in recent days, Miller said.

In a statement released to reporters, the gunman's wife, Marie Roberts, called her husband "loving, supportive and thoughtful."

"He was an exceptional father," she said. "He took the kids to soccer practice and games, played ball in the backyard and took our 7-year-old daughter shopping. He never said no when I asked him to change a diaper."

"Our hearts are broken, our lives are shattered, and we grieve for the innocence and lives that were lost today," she said. "Above all, please pray for the families who lost children and please pray too for our family and children."

The attack bore similarities to a deadly school shooting last week in Bailey, Colo., but Miller said he believed the Pennsylvania attack was not a copycat crime. "I really believe this was about this individual and what was going on inside his head," he said.

On Friday, a school principal was shot to death in Cazenovia, Wis. A 15-year-old student, described as upset over a reprimand, was charged with murder.

© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Learn more about our Privacy Policy.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Tom
"Regardless of peoples stand on number two, number one should be the first focus. It's VERY questionable rather state enacted 'gun-free school zones' violate state firearm rights in the same way that the federal gun-free school zones was struck down.."

It wasn't struck down because firearms "rights" can't be restricted/regulated, in fact the reason had nothing to do with guns at all. And the law was reenacted and is the law of the land today.

I take it back. I just rechecked and found the reapplied law signed under clinton. I somehow missed hearing about that.

Guess it's time for a federal case then.

Thanks for the headsup.

***

Ok, I read a little closer, and the new bill is considerably different than the original.

The new version does not affect home schools. It only affects primary and secondary schools, not post-secondary. The new version exempts anyone with a concealed license. While not ideal, neither is it so restrictive as to require immediate action against it.

So in effect, what I said before was accurate - it's the local and state laws which now prohibit concealed carry on school grounds, and not federal law.

That may be true, but your original point was the local and state laws might be overturned, for the reason the Federal law was, but that would be impossible because the reason was the origianl bill neglected to base itself on interstate commerce.

local and state law isn't based on the Constitution's commerce clause, it wouldn't make sense to say a state can't regulate commerce inside it's own borders.

Gotcha gotcha, yeah, I phrased that horribly. What I was alluding to was that the federal law got overturned on constitutional basis, maybe the same thing could happen for state law...not for the same reason though. I just totally said it wrong. My bad, good catch.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: keeleysam
Daayyyyyyamn, what is up with all these school shootings?

global warming

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: keeleysam
Daayyyyyyamn, what is up with all these school shootings?

Someone put forth a theory. Its a stretch, but then again.....

Many people are leaving cities to get away. They come to Colorado or some other state you choose. They bring their warped libtard beliefs and spoiled kids. Kids go crazy, havent been raised properly and pow. You get a school shooting.

People these days cant raise kids. They just dont know how. We are reaping what we sow, thats all. Its sad yes, but maybe parents need to actually RAISE their kids and quit using some hippie libtard "I'm their friend" logic.

As I said, just a theory put forth from elsewhere. Its a stretch, but then again........

'libtard'? I seriously hope you are not suggesting the concept of liberalism has caused this shooting? Becuase that has to be the dumbest thing I've heard this year.

You cheapen the death of many by spouting your ridiculous politics.

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Maybe they can use this (And the other incidents) to get CCW passed in the school.

Obviously making schoolsa "Gun free" zone is about the tardest of tard ideas you can come up with.

Oh yes, of course! We should give people in schools concealed weapons! Then there would be much fewer school shootings. Damn man, why didn't I think of that!

:disgust:

Yes, libtard. Where do you think all of our gun restrictions have come from? Aint the Repugs fella.
And while we're at it, why do you suppose kids do this crap? Because our current culture focuses on one thing. Do you feel good? Self esteem. NO ONE fails in school. As long as you feel good, its ok.
What happened to the days when you werent a ray of light, you werent the best? You were just another Joe, and if you step out of line you get your ass beat on? What happened to the days when you were held responsible for you, and no one is going to hold your hand and make sure nothing bad ever happens? What happened to the days when you werent the best, you werent special?

You can say its all political crap all you want but I ask you, name 1 school shooting that happened 40 years ago. One that happened 30 years ago. One that happened 20 years ago.

We have to face it, our culture is negatively affecting us! Until we realize that maybe this ongoing progressive thinking is HURTING us, this stuff will continue.

I'm not saying winding the clock back 1000 years in our thought processes and culture is the answer, but for damn sure what we're doing now surely isnt either.

And yes, let faculty carry guns. I ask again, whats your solution? Home schooling?

How bout this? Name one that happened in a modern and civilized country but outside of America. You can't, can you, because they don't happen outside America.

Why is this? Lets do a comparison between countries. Teke two with almost exactly the same culture - the USA and the UK. The USA has 4.08 gun homicides per 100000 people, while the UK has 0.12 per 100000. The difference between the two? The USA has more liberal gun laws. Oh yes - that's what 'liberal' means, not 'evil' as you seem to think, but free. Free to do as you wish. In the USA you are free to have a gun if you wish, and as some people think, free to shoot people with it.

Alternative explainations are welcomed. Preferably ones which do not revolve around your view that society itself has gone to hell in a kind of general way

Hey moron:

Mar. 13, 1996: Thomas Hamilton, 43, dressed in black and wearing earmuffs to protect himself from the noise, entered an elementary school in Dunblane, Scotland, and sprayed 105 bullets into the gym striking 29 people before killing himself. Sixteen five and 6-year-olds and a teacher died.

Or:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5346834.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanaa_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma%27alot_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erfurt_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre

even in 1989 in canada montreal, never mind the one last month.
14 women died in this one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89cole_Polytechnique_Massacre