Asus VG248QE, Unsatisfied. Switching to IPS for gaming?

[CZory91]

Acer S211HLbd < Old Monitor
ASUS VG248QE < New Monitor

So, i received the Asus VG248QE. This thing is almost painful to look at depending on the image/game :|. I tried messing with a ton of settings... nothing seems to have a sweet spot. The response time and everything is great... but certain things just make me cringe. I can't for the life of me try to find a decent balance of under or over saturation with the colors. Having a really hard time not getting a "neon" look onto a lot of my colors in games... Otherwise it looks extremely washed out. Adjusting the brightness to a tolerable level makes the whites look grey; Too high and it burns my eyes out. Really makes me want to turn the other way and try out an IPS panel. At this point I'm ready to dump some serious cash on a ~24" IPS. Really unsure of what I want to do. Should I just stick with it to see if I get used to it, or is this a bad idea? Are there any tolerable high quality IPS screens with low input lag/response time to them? Come to think of it, I don't play any racing games, and very little FPS, so there isn't a terrible amount of fast movement going on. The fluidity of this screen is so nice, but the colors and everything are just bad, it makes my previous monitor look glorious.


Any suggestions for/against any of these monitors?
Asus VG23AH
Asus PA238Q
Benq G2450HM
Dell S2340L
Dell S2440L
Dell UltraSharp U2412M
Dell UltraSharp U2312HM < What's up with this panel? TFTCentral is marking this under 1ms input lag. Why is this monitor not being sold like crazy?


At the end of the day I would like to feel as if I have fully upgraded in more ways than side/downgraded from my Acer S211HLbd. I'm almost ready to plug my old one back in over this for now until a new one comes in.

Right now the three I'm looking at the closest are probably the S2440L, Benq G2450HM, and U2312HM. Are either of these just a straight upgrade from my old Acer S211HLbd other than a little response time possibly?

 

[bystander36]

I honestly do not know what to recommend, though I would make one possible suggestion before continuing forward. The ASUS 144hz monitors are known to have poor colors at 144hz, but at 120hz they look better. If you haven't tried it already, test out 120hz.

 

[daveybrat]

The Dell UltraSharp U2312HM has an 8ms response time. Not sure where they got the 1ms from. 5-8ms is normal for an IPS panel. I personally would only choose one with 5ms as i play only FPS games.

 

[3DVagabond]

The Dell UltraSharp U2312HM has an 8ms response time. Not sure where they got the 1ms from. 5-8ms is normal for an IPS panel. I personally would only choose one with 5ms as i play only FPS games.

Assuming he's speaking accurately, he mentions input lag not response time.

 

[CZory91]

Assuming he's speaking accurately, he mentions input lag not response time.

Correct. I'm having an extremely hard time between the S2440L and U2312HM at the moment. And I tried tweaking settings, a LOT. 60hz is "ok", but I'm not keeping a $270 TN 60hz monitor

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Yeah, the coloring on that monitor is horrible. If you want better coloring go with that IPS monitor.

 

[Black Octagon]

Assuming he's speaking accurately, he mentions input lag not response time.

Actually, the OP says:

Are there any tolerable high quality IPS screens with low input lag/response time to them?

 

[Black Octagon]

Correct

Nonetheless, it makes little sense to talk of input lag* alone, i.e., in absence of other causes of overall latency such as pixel response time (for instance). No point having very low input lag if response time is garbage, and vice-versa. PRAD.de did a more informative review of the U2312HM than TFTCentral in that they put input lag and response time 'together' - overall latency from the monitor was calculated as 9.3ms**

*Overall latency (from a monitor) = input lag + pixel response time + any other processing latency

(Disclaimer: I know that this terminology is not consistently used - AT themselves often use the term 'input lag' in place of what I call 'overall latency' - but I don't think this is particularly helpful.)

**PRAD.de also say that one reason for this unusual snappiness is that the panel on this Dell has "6-Bit colour control, which is otherwise almost exclusively used in TN panels"

 

[roror]

I've got the U2312HM and an Asus VH236H which is a TN panel I use as my 2nd monitor. I've never felt any difference between the two while playing games. There's no lag on either of them as far as I can tell.

I'm not sure if this is a good way to compare the two for lag, but if I place a window in between the two, so that there's part window on both monitors and move them up and down, the window parts will both stay perfectly in sync.

I'm happy with it and will never buy a TN again. It kind of makes me wish I had a 1440p version now, but I'm scared of SLI. :biggrin:

 

[Black Octagon]

I'm not sure if this is a good way to compare the two for lag, but if I place a window in between the two, so that there's part window on both monitors and move them up and down, the window parts will both stay perfectly in sync.

It's not the most scientific way, no

Depending on how much effort you're prepared to put into it, you could consider testing using SMTT: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/input_lag.htm

 

[Mark Rejhon]

Having a really hard time not getting a "neon" look onto a lot of my colors in games...

There can be lots of problems with the color quality on all 120Hz monitors, so they need a good calibration. Easiest is to get a Spyder4 or i1 Pro or other similiar colorimeter -- they are a ~$150 sensor which you put on the screen, press a button in calibration software to automatically calibrate.

For manual calibration for my monitor (with LightBoost enabled), I used the Lagom test patterns at: Lagom Contrast and Lagom Black Level. I lowered the in-game contrast/brightness somewhat, to prevent the gamma bleaching effect (e.g. Borderlands2 has an in-game Contrast of "5", and the monitor has an in-menu Contrast of "65", though "75" worked well too).

I'm assuming you've already tried LightBoost. (Motion Blur Comparison: 60Hz vs 120Hz vs LightBoost as well as the LightBoost HOWTO), and found that the image degradation was unsatisfactory. If you are having problems with a crimson color during LightBoost, there's a few example settings found by googling "LightBoost crimson fix". That said, I can't blame you if you find color quality more important than motion quality. It all depends on your priorities. (For some of us, motion quality is far more important! Even plain 144Hz is not good enough for its tradeoffs, LightBoost 120Hz is vastly superior to non-LightBoost 144Hz. Then the color quality tradeoffs becomes worth it for some of us -- see Skyviper's comparing IPS and LightBoost and ending up keeping both monitors).


One great recommendation making the rounds in the forums is the QNIX Q2710 Evolution 2 monitor (Korean import) -- PLS (LG IPS) based monitor of 2560x1440 60Hz, optionally overclockable to 120Hz, for only ~$330. It won't have the zero motion blur capability of LightBoost, but it will have better colors that you are more accustomed to.

 

[imaheadcase]

If you want good picture quality and all around good performer just get the Dell U2410 or whatever new version of it is out. Many end up just getting it because games/movies look and feel great.

 

[gpse]

I have a Dell U2312HM, great monitor, I haven't noticed any input lag, or ghosting, I highly recommend this monitor for gaming with good IPS image quality!

 

[CZory91]

There can be lots of problems with the color quality on all 120Hz monitors, so they need a good calibration. Easiest is to get a Spyder4 or i1 Pro or other similiar colorimeter -- they are a ~$150 sensor which you put on the screen, press a button in calibration software to automatically calibrate.

That's a lot of money to dump into a TN panel though isn't it? Its still not going to be close to the same quality of an e-IPS right?

For manual calibration for my monitor (with LightBoost enabled), I used the Lagom test patterns at: Lagom Contrast and Lagom Black Level. I lowered the in-game contrast/brightness somewhat, to prevent the gamma bleaching effect (e.g. Borderlands2 has an in-game Contrast of "5", and the monitor has an in-menu Contrast of "65", though "75" worked well too).

I'm assuming you've already tried LightBoost. (Motion Blur Comparison: 60Hz vs 120Hz vs LightBoost as well as the LightBoost HOWTO), and found that the image degradation was unsatisfactory. If you are having problems with a crimson color during LightBoost, there's a few example settings found by googling "LightBoost crimson fix". That said, I can't blame you if you find color quality more important than motion quality. It all depends on your priorities. (For some of us, motion quality is far more important! Even plain 144Hz is not good enough for its tradeoffs, LightBoost 120Hz is vastly superior to non-LightBoost 144Hz. Then the color quality tradeoffs becomes worth it for some of us -- see Skyviper's comparing IPS and LightBoost and ending up keeping both monitors).

I do use lagom to calibrate screens as well. As for the light boost trick, unless I'm reading it wrong I don't want to have to mess with hotkeys and controls/software modifications. Would prefer to have everything through hardware.

One great recommendation making the rounds in the forums is the QNIX Q2710 Evolution 2 monitor (Korean import) -- PLS (LG IPS) based monitor of 2560x1440 60Hz, optionally overclockable to 120Hz, for only ~$330. It won't have the zero motion blur capability of LightBoost, but it will have better colors that you are more accustomed to.

Unsure how I feel about imports like that. How do you go about getting one and what kind of major drawbacks are there? Seems like something too good to be true.


Thank you very much for the detailed post by the way. Lastly, what about the S2440L? That has an 8 bit AMVA panel. What would that be in comparison to my old monitor? (I don't want to compare my current purchase to my next, as I am unhappy with is so as it is and would just like to see more of a straight upgrade from my old Acer).

 

[blastingcap]

Korean monitors. IPS, and if they don't have scalers you also get lower input lag. If colors are off, find a software calibration fix.

 

[Fastx]

OP fwiw


http://www.overclock.net/t/1390365/asus-vg248qe-or-lg-27ea63v-p

 

[Mark Rejhon]

That's a lot of money to dump into a TN panel though isn't it? Its still not going to be close to the same quality of an e-IPS right?

The sensor is reusable on any display, even IPS, even over the next ten years. It's a handy thing to have, even when used once every few months, and it even helps your laptop screens too.

I do use lagom to calibrate screens as well. As for the light boost trick, unless I'm reading it wrong I don't want to have to mess with hotkeys and controls/software modifications. Would prefer to have everything through hardware.

The software method is only because it needs to do an nVidia unlocking protocol on the LightBoost hardware. (This prevents AMD from taking advantage of it without nVidia permission). There's a much easier method (3-minute) that does not require registry tweaks nor INF files. New ToastyX lightboost enable method.

Unsure how I feel about imports like that. How do you go about getting one and what kind of major drawbacks are there? Seems like something too good to be true.

Hundreds of positive reviews now make it the real thing. Check the HardForum thread on the QNIX Q2710. It's the rave/rage there right now.

Thank you very much for the detailed post by the way. Lastly, what about the S2440L? That has an 8 bit AMVA panel

Little experience-- I'll let others reply.

 

[Mark Rejhon]

Ok, I found the threads.

1. About Trying a cheap 1440p 120hz overclock

If you are looking for a cheap 2560x1440p PLS (LG IPS) with excellent image quality, and the ability to overclock to about ~100-120Hz vertical refresh rate; there is popular threads with great reviews of QNIX Q2710, here they are:

hardforum.com: Over 200 posts with over 15,000 views:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1758515

120hz.net: Over 150 posts with over 15,000 views:
http://120hz.net/showthread.php?1843-QNIX-QX2710-Overclockable

BlurBusters.com: Blog entry
http://www.blurbusters.com/2560x1440p-lcd-monitors-overclockable-to-120-hz/

So as you clearly see, with hundreds of positive feedbacks, definitely not too good to be true. Some pros and cons. Like some artifacting when you exceed 96Hz, but not on all models -- but not a big loss. Warranty risk is definitely higher with an import, but they haven't been failing "left and right". Technically, you could even buy two, store one in the closet, if it makes you feel better... And they have relatively good resale value, especially if you post in the HardForum classifieds or 120hz.net classifieds, especially for confirmed overclocks >120Hz.

2. About Trying LightBoost (New Easy Method)

That said, before you switch, you should owe it to yourself to at least briefly do the quick 3-minute one-time ToastyX software method of unlocking the LightBoost hardware feature in your monitor; to give it a try out. If often redeems the value of the VG248QE.

So I finally got the VG248QE hooked up last night and was able to play around with it for a couple hours. The other monitor that I have is a HP ZR30W which is a 30" 2560x1600 IPS monitor so I will be comparing the VG248QE to that a lot in this review.

Right off the bat, I noticed the color quality seems to be a lot worse than the ZR30W. Everything looks to be washed out, dull and not to mention the monitor suffers from poor viewing angles. On the ZR30W, there is next to no color shifting when I move my head around unlike the VG248QE, but that's a common problem with all TN monitors. I tried calibrating the monitor a little bit using some of the values posted online, but it still doesn't compare to the HP.

Moving on, the first thing I tried was 144 Hz gaming. I loaded up Borderlands 2 just to see how it is and I can definitely say it felt smoother. There is no screen tearing at all on the ASUS, unlike how it is on the HP if i don't turn on Vsync. Although the game felt smoother at 144 Hz and there was less blurring, I found that having to play on a lower res (1920x1080 vs 2560x1600) and poorer color reproduction made the overall gaming experience WORSE. Granted this isn't a competitive, online FPS game so I might have benefited more from having a faster refresh rate, but I would have probably stuck with playing this game on the 30" IPS monitor rather than a 24" TN.

At this point I felt like I may have wasted $300 bucks on a monitor that is full of compromises. The next thing I tried of course was using the Lightboost hack. This was the main reason why I bought the monitor in the first place since there are plenty of other 120 Hz monitors that I could have gotten that I'm sure had better color reproduction.

So I downloaded the hacked INF file and followed Mark's instructions. After turning on Lightboost, I noticed the monitor became a little bit brighter so I loaded up PixPerAn just to verify everything is working. The first thing I noticed was that I can actually read "I need more socks" at full speed! This was cool since I've never been able to read it going so fast before on any LCD monitor.

I then proceeded to load up Borderlands 2 again not having much expectations. The first thing that happened was I noticed the FPS drop down to around 1-2 fps, but then I remembered to hold down "Ctrl-T" for a few seconds to turn off the 3D effect which fixed the FPS problem. So I loaded up a game and the first thing that came to my mind was...

SWEET MOTHER OF GOD!

Am I seeing this correctly? The last time I gamed on a CRT monitor was back in 2006 before I got my first LCD and this ASUS monitor is EXACTLY like how I remembered gaming on a CRT monitor. I was absolutely shocked and amazed at how clear everything was when moving around. After seeing Lightboost in action, I would have gladly paid twice the amount for something that can reproduce the feeling I got when playing on a CRT. Now I really can't see myself going back to my 30" 2560x1600 IPS monitor when gaming. Everything looks so much clearer on the ASUS with Lightboost turned on.

If you do any kind of gaming, you should definitely get this monitor. For everything else however, an IPS monitor would probably be better.

Thankfully I am lucky enough to have both

Not everyone likes LightBoost. But some really do. Any VG248QE shouldn't be returned without at least first giving LightBoost a honest try, since 120Hz only has 50% less motion blur (2x less blur), while LightBoost has ~90% less motion blur (~10x less blur) for sustained 120fps@120Hz gaming (you need 120fps@120Hz to really redeem a 120Hz monitor).

 

[Will Robinson]

If you want good picture quality and all around good performer just get the Dell U2410 or whatever new version of it is out. Many end up just getting it because games/movies look and feel great.

I totally agree with that.
My U2410 is just awesome....I play a lot of very competitive Battlefield Multiplayer and have no issues with lag.
For multimedia ie movies,graphic images etc it is the display du jour.

 

[CZory91]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/QNIX-QX2710...0x1440-WQHD-Samsung-PLS-Monitor-/130876447551

This is the monitor you're talking about I assume?
Why are those so cheap exactly if they're shelling out so much performance?

I will give lightboost a try, however I'm curious about these monitors now... Also looked at an EIZO foris fs2333, which seems to fit the bill well, as well, but with a higher price tag. At 2560x1440 I definitely wouldn't have a need to overclock it as I wouldn't be getting too much over 60 if that in most games at that resolution; I would leave it be. How is this monitor so cheap?...

 

[Mark Rejhon]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/QNIX-QX2710...0x1440-WQHD-Samsung-PLS-Monitor-/130876447551
This is the monitor you're talking about I assume?
Why are those so cheap exactly if they're shelling out so much performance?

Everything asian made is obviously cheaper. Mixed quality as everyone complains. But as we all know, the Korean quality is steadily improving (e.g. even Hyundai cars now get good reviews by Consumer Reports). It may not be top of the line, but some surprise gems like these. And you've got these nice looking Samsung Galaxy cellphones now (Android phones made by a Korean company, that everyone loves).

You know -- raw 39" 4K LCD glass is available factory-direct for about ~$450 in huge quantities today. But you need to buy factory-scale quantities, then build a TV casing & electronics around them. That's why the SEIKI 4K HDTV cost 1300 on Tiger Direct. Unexpectedly cheap deals. Companies like Sony and Sharp is hurting because of this kind of price under-cutting.

Ideally, I wish there was American or Canadian made options in enthusiast PC displays. I'd pay a hundred extra. But there seems to be none anymore for these league of displays.

 

[CZory91]

I see. I actually have my hands on a U2312HM right now. The only complaint I would say is the "glow" that people talk about on IPS screens. I have to turn the gamma up on games that have darker minimaps on the corners in order to see them correctly. Otherwise I think I like it. The colors certainly are a billion times better, that's for sure. I assume this is just standard for IPS and this is the best I'm going to get for a non-import monitor at 1080p that has an "all-around" focus to it in terms of colors and response time?

 

[Mark Rejhon]

If you only need 60 Hz and only 1080p, then it's hard to find anything marginally better at dramatically higher prices. By 60Hz IPS standards, it's pretty much par for the course -- good colors/angles, etc. If you don't really mind motion blur and the monitor isn't causing you input lag issues, it is worth sticking with it until something better comes along.

If you are a former CRT user and really liked zero motion blur of that, then LightBoost may make the VG248QE feel a little bit more like an upgrade -- roughly half of people love it, and half of people don't like the tradeoffs. Your mileage may vary.

 

[CZory91]

If you only need 60 Hz and only 1080p, then it's hard to find anything marginally better at dramatically higher prices. By 60Hz IPS standards, it's pretty much par for the course -- good colors/angles, etc. If you don't really mind motion blur and the monitor isn't causing you input lag issues, it is worth sticking with it until something better comes along.

If you are a former CRT user and really liked zero motion blur of that, then LightBoost may make the VG248QE feel a little bit more like an upgrade -- roughly half of people love it, and half of people don't like the tradeoffs. Your mileage may vary.

I'll have to just deal with the "IPS glow" then. I like everything else about the monitor so it looks like this is it. Thanks a ton for all the information.

 

[xeledon20005]

I just got the VG248QE set it to 120hz, not 100% happy with the colors but will try to make the adjustments as I can. I did the light boost on it but it seems like a pain in the ass switching from lightboost on and off. Im not sure i could even tell the different, I play call of duty 2 most of the time when i get home.