ASUS Sabertooth Z87 motherboard - VERY unusual behavior

[badger_robert]

Folks,

I'm hoping someone here might be able to help me resolve a very pesky issue that has been eluding me for 3 days now.

I finished a new build Wednesday night featuring a Sabertooth Z87 motherboard, which is running Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit.

Here are the full specs of my system:

ASUS Sabertooth Z87 motherboard (running Bios version 1707)
16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3-1600 (CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9B) 4 x 4gb DIMMs
Seidon 120M liquid cooling
Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core
2x Kingston Hyper-X 3K 120gb SSD (In RAID 0)
2x Western Digital 1TB HDD - due to be replaced soon
Onboard sound
GeForce 9600GT video card
Zalman Z9 mid tower cas12:50 PM 2/6/2014e
Silverstone 750w power supply
LG DVD-CDRW optical drive (SATA) -- model that is several years old.

My very first boot of the system enabled me to access the BIOS with no problems. So I setup the Intel controller SATA ports (BROWN ports on the mobo) for RAID and created the array. During the reboot after the array creation the system froze up at the ASUS TUF logo screen (with the message to press F2 or DEL to enter the BIOS setting) nothing except a hard boot/reset would resolve this - after which I was able to enter the BIOS until the next reboot/reset.

I quickly found update to BIOS version 1707 and flashed the motherboard and this issue seemed to have gone away -- although the system did freeze up entirely while I was in the BIOS, but this only happened ONE time.

My next challenge was getting Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit to install. I had to try MULTIPLE time before the DVD actually booted up into the Windows setup from the device. I thought that MAYBE this DVD drive was too old, but after clearing the CMOS (using the jumper) and going through the BIOS setup again this was not a problem.

In any case, after maybe 30-40 minutes the OS was installed and I was up and running. At this point I began to update drivers and install tools from the motherboard support DVD - this activated my LAN, etc.

Finally the main issue cropped up - and I simply can't figure out why.

If I restart the system from Windows 7 *or* press the reset button on the system it reboots, but hangs at the ASUS TUF Logo with a message to press F2 or DEL to enter the bios setting....and nothing works. This happens every single time if I restart from within the OS or press the reset button. If I shut down the system and do a cold boot it works just fine and loads the OS in about 25-30 seconds from the moment I power on the system.

This same freezing behaviour has occured somewhat regularly when I have a disc in the DVD drive.

I'm going make the BIOS setting change tonight first, then I intend to run MEMCHECK on the DIMMs to see if they may be faulty. Then I plan to simplify the build by going down to a single SSD and the DVD drive and re-install Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit to see what happens. I will then add the second SSD in my desired RAID 0 configuration and again re-install Win7.

My initial build *was* just the SSDs in a RAID0 - and the issue manifested itself, and remained after adding the HDDs to the build.

What could be causing this issue? I've been advised to set the "Launch CSM" option in the BIOS to "Disabled" to see if that resolves the issue. I've also been told that this COULD be a memory, SSD, HHD, CPU or even motherboard itself issue. After thinking this through a little bit I'm wondering if perhaps the RAID Controller isn't quite right? If that is the case then the build out later with just a single SSD in play may clear it up...meaning I either have a RAID controller driver issue, or a problem with the controller itself (ie. the motherboard since it is onboard).

Does anyone have any thoughts on this issue?

Please advise...this is driving me crazy and kept me up have the night.

PS - I wanted to mention that the the Seidon 120M liquid cooling the CPU is running at approximately 25-29 degrees celsius all of the time. Does this sound about right? Additionally, I'm NOT overclocking anything, everything in my build is running at stock.

Thank you,
-Rob

 

[lakedude]

You are on the right track. Simplifying is the way to go. Get it running and then add parts one at a time till the problem comes back.

It almost sounds like a dead battery on the MB but the MB must be fairly new.

I must make a plug for Puppy or Fat Dog Linux at this point. Best way to simplify. Make a bootable CD, unplug all the hard drives, boot from the live CD (or DVD).

If Linux works and Windows does not, the problem is with either the software, HDDs or the RAID.

If both Linux and Window have trouble you have a hardware issue like MB, RAM, or optical drive.

BTW I've got 16GB of "Vengeance" new in a box as a warranty replacement because the original 16GB was bad...

 

[badger_robert]

You are on the right track. Simplifying is the way to go. Get it running and then add parts one at a time till the problem comes back.

It almost sounds like a dead battery on the MB but the MB must be fairly new.

I must make a plug for Puppy or Fat Dog Linux at this point. Best way to simplify. Make a bootable CD, unplug all the hard drives, boot from the live CD (or DVD).

If Linux works and Windows does not, the problem is with either the software, HDDs or the RAID.

If both Linux and Window have trouble you have a hardware issue like MB, RAM, or optical drive.

BTW I've got 16GB of "Vengeance" new in a box as a warranty replacement because the original 16GB was bad...

Thanks for the reply LakeDude.

Well, I worked on this all evening:

1) Single SSD and the DVD drive....no issues at all, none. It never once gave me grief during any restart or anything...and I did it about 25 times.

2) 2x SSDs in a RAID.....almost instantly caused trouble. Same behavior as before.

I started loading device drivers at this point, trying to find the one causing me trouble. So far no luck. RAID, ACPI, all updated but the behavior still exists. I'm installing all of the Window Updates right now, hoping that maybe one of them may resolve the issue somehow.

After this is complete I'll do Memtest and see what else I can locate to test out...

Then I'll have to do the stupidly boring task of checking each device driver to be sure it is the most recent.

Someone REALLY should come up with an automatic way for this to get done. UGH!

-Rob

 

[ArisVer]

I think you should contact Asus. The RAID option/construction in the BIOS is bad. I do not think it is a W7 driver issue.

 

[badger_robert]

Well, I'll call ASUS again but so far they have been completely useless.

After all Windows updates and some manual attempts the issue seems to be related to either the RAID controller on the motherboard or the Kingston HyperX 3k SSDs I have in a RAID 0.

I'm leaning towards the RAID controller since it works fine with just one SSD.

I have the latest driver loaded and it still happens when I have both SSDs running in RAID. I saw on another site that there is a firmware (fw503) upgrade for these drives (SH103S3/120G) - so I downloaded it and the tool does not see the drives at all. I found a note about downgrading the RAID controller but I can't figure out the exact steps to do it.

Hopefully I can figure it out.

I suppose I could rebuild the system using the 2nd SSD to see how it behaves with that one physical unit. That way I'm non-RAID and maybe I can apply the firmware to the drive.

Thanks,
-Rob

 

[Ketchup]

.... I downloaded it and the tool does not see the drives at all.

This is probably because they are in an array. Run them outside of an array and try the tool. Since the controller on the board is putting them in an array, Windows is only seeing them as one big drive.

 

[badger_robert]

OK, thanks.

I was thinking that...but if I do it will the firmware remains after I put them back in an array?

 

[badger_robert]

OK, I reloaded with the 2 SSDs in ACHI and yes, I can see the firmware for the drives finally. Thanks!

Unfortunately, I don't think that will get me any closer to the solution since the firmware for both drives is listed by the tool at 507KC4 - and it says that there is no firmware update required.

When I checked online the latest firmware I knew about was 503 from Kingston, which I wasn't expecting to find and downloaded earlier.

What is this one? I never heard of 507KC4.

So, now I'm back on the RAID controller of the motherboard being the most likely culprit.

BTW - With the 2 SSDs in ACHI reboots of the system are instantaneous - literally seconds from restart command to back up in Windows 7. Wow.

So....the RAID controller on the ASUS Sabertooth Z87 motherboard seems to be the issue. I guess a call to ASUS is in order. Ugh.

Thanks for the help.

-Rob

 

[ArisVer]

You might want to consider running just one SSD since SSDs are very fast. I have RAID with spinners and when I asked here they told me that a single SSD is much faster than that.

 

[badger_robert]

Guess what!

It works now! The missing link the entire time was the RAID controller driver...I was told on another forum to go to the Intel website and grab it...and it works!!! Holy hell that was painful.

I finally have a brand new working system - no more freezes on reboots. Perfection. It boots up from cold start or restarts to able to use OS in approximately 30 seconds.

I'm downloading and installing the host of Windows 7 updates I need, but so far so good. I hope that the browser issue I noted is gone as well, but we shall see.

My thanks to everyone that replied.

-Rob

 

[badger_robert]

OMFG! I completed all of the Windows updates and that damn freezing issue is BACK!!!!!

The system called for over 150 updates, all important....and now my system is freezing on every reboot again.

WTH!?!?

I tried re-installing the Intel RAID controller driver again, but no luck. I'm going to poke around through the updates and see if I find one dealing with RAID controllers, but I doubt I'll get that lucky.

I'm open to any and all suggestions again.

This sucks big time.

-Rob

PS - The funky browser issue I had during one of my earlier builds is now gone - unfortunately the old freezing on reboots is back. It was working PERFECTLY before the Windows updates.

 

[badger_robert]

One more thing - during the rounds of Windows updates the first two went perfectly...the issue didn't materialize until the very last set of updates, which including a driver update for my nVidia GeForce 9600 GT video card.
It downloaded and installed driver 332.21...I'm going to see if I can downgrade that driver. Is anyone aware of any issues with that driver that causes freezes - in my case on reboot?
Thanks,
-Rob

 

[Ketchup]

One more thing - during the rounds of Windows updates the first two went perfectly...the issue didn't materialize until the very last set of updates, which including a driver update for my nVidia GeForce 9600 GT video card.
It downloaded and installed driver 332.21...I'm going to see if I can downgrade that driver. Is anyone aware of any issues with that driver that causes freezes - in my case on reboot?
Thanks,
-Rob

Yeah, the older nVidia cards don't like the latest drivers. Try going back and see what happens.

 

[denis280]

try this one.http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/59641/en-us

 

[badger_robert]

Well, I've tried to install the following older drivers with no luck, the freezing on reboot issue STILL exists.

I've used driver 314.22, 331.65, 331.82 and of course the most recent 332.21.

I'm stumped. I really do NOT want to do another complete rebuild - but I simply can't figure out what is causing these freezes now. It was working PERFECTLY before the last round of Windows updates - which included video driver 332.21.

Any more thoughts folks?

Thanks,
-Rob

 

[Ketchup]

Well, I've tried to install the following older drivers with no luck, the freezing on reboot issue STILL exists.

I've used driver 314.22, 331.65, 331.82 and of course the most recent 332.21.

I'm stumped. I really do NOT want to do another complete rebuild - but I simply can't figure out what is causing these freezes now. It was working PERFECTLY before the last round of Windows updates - which included video driver 332.21.

Any more thoughts folks?

Thanks,
-Rob

What other updates were in the batch (that weren't just security updates)?

 

[badger_robert]

What other updates were in the batch (that weren't just security updates)?

I am not at home right now when I get home I will check I'm assuming I should uninstall any of those please let me know

 

[badger_robert]

Ok, I figured it out with some help from a moderator on another forum. It wasn't the GeForce driver update, or even the Windows updates - directly anyway. One of those must have impacted the Intel Rapid Start tool, once I reinstalled it everything went back to normal. I even have the latest GeForce driver now.

I've rebooted about 10 times now without any more issues. Now I just need to figure out why one of my SSDs appears to have gone "belly up". No big deal since I had previusly backed up my data there - but at this point I can't even use the drive at all.

Thanks again for all of the help. I appreciate it.

-Rob

 

[solidsnake1607]

When your pc hangs in the post logo try disconnecting all usb devices. This happened to me with my Maximus VI Hero and that solved the issue.

 

[badger_robert]

@solidsnake1607 - Funny you should say that because I discovered that myself last night.

OK,
Here is the current situation:

The system freezes at the post screen (ASUS TUF Logo) on any reboot WITHOUT a bootable CD in the drive. If a disc is in the drive it booted to Windows without any issues. VERY strange huh? The ASUS techs (once I could keep one on the telephone for more than 15 minutes without getting disconnected!) thought so too. Finally one of them decided to escalate my case to a higher (and hopefully more skilled) level of support for assistance some time tomorrow.

So, after a brief period of bashing my head against the wall repeatedly after being on the phone with ASUS "support" last night I decided to have a nice stiff drink and settle in for a ANOTHER long night of rebuilding and testing after every component.

Here is what I found: Building a new system nowadays is NOT as simple as it was in the past, and I think these ASUS boards are even harder. I discovered numerous situations that will cause the system to freeze at the post screen after a reboot. There are some that will go through (for unknown reasons) but most will freeze up.

1) The initial boot after deploying Win7 Ultimate 64-bit only includes the Windows assigned drivers - and any subsequent reboots will freeze the system until you install the myriad of drivers and software packages contained on the motherboard support DVD. The key being the Intel Rapid Start Technology drivers/software - if you deploy everything else and skip this one you will have freezes on reboots until you install it.
Oh and I hope you didn't forget to load the latest RAID drivers to during the Windows installation - because I could not find a way to do it after the install, and this one is imperative it seems or some conflicts occur and you will get freezes on reboots.

Once I deployed all of the drivers and software the reboots worked again with no issues - including the deployment of American Greetings Create-A-Card Select 6 AND the Canon Camera drivers/software. Even after 2 hours of Windows Updates (over 150 fixes deployed) I was able to reboot the system at will without a single freeze...I did this about 15 times before moving on.

I next installed the drivers and software for my HP OfficeJet Pro 8600 printer and connected it. The unit functioned without any issues.....until I rebooted the system and the freezing began again.

If I have the printer disconnected (USB connection to a USB 2.0 port) the system reboots without any issues at all - once again I did this about 15-20 times without incident. If the printer is connected to the USB 2.0 port on the back of the computer it freezes up at the post screen on reboot EVERY single time.

I did some research (since I wasn't sleeping anyway) and found that this particular HP printer is NOT USB compliant - supposedly it doesn't work at all on USB 3.0 connections without a driver update -- but in my case I'm certain that I'm plugged into a USB 2.0 port on my motherboard. HP doesn't have a fix for this - you need to update the drivers from the motherboard manufacturer website - or Intel.

I was able to locate a USB 3.0 driver update from Intel, but the ASUS site has an even older one...so the Intel driver it will be - however I doubt this will fix my issue since I'm plugged into a USB 2.0 port. According to Device Manager the drivers for my USB 2.0 hub, etc ARE old...but I'm unable to locate a more recent version.

I'm hesitant to mess with it since my keyboard and mouse are USB connected, but I don't think I have any other choice - IF the USB 3.0 fix doesn't (IE. it won't) fix my issue.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
-Rob

 

[Ketchup]

Nice troubleshooting Rob. I have seen Windows boot without the installation media. Somewhat rare though. I think it is putting the MBR in the wrong place.

As for your printer, have you tried the Ethernet and WiFi options? I rarely plug in a printer USB anymore.

 

[badger_robert]

Nice troubleshooting Rob. I have seen Windows boot without the installation media. Somewhat rare though. I think it is putting the MBR in the wrong place.

As for your printer, have you tried the Ethernet and WiFi options? I rarely plug in a printer USB anymore.

I have not yet tried to connect it via Ethernet or WiFi - and I'm not sure I can. My system doesn't have a wireless card/option. It also only has 1 Ethernet port - and it's going to my router...and the printer is connected directly to the router as well.

 

[badger_robert]

Well, I *am* a moron. The printer is NOT direct connected to the router by an Ethernet cable - it is wireless....so I uninstalled the drivers and software, rebooted and re-installed using the Wireless option...and it WORKS!!! No more freezing on reboots.

Blasted hell. If I had only spent hafl the time on that aspect of my config as I did the rest I would have realized that a long time ago. Ugh.

Thanks!

I still have a few more things to install, but all have worked before so I don't anticipate any more issues. I should be in the clear in a couple hours.

 

[badger_robert]

All good so far, except that I am getting some black screens on reboots after Windows Updates though, and this morning (after a 3am windows update) was again at a black screen. System on, drive light lit, fans running, but a black screen -and nothing I did broke me out of it except a reset.

Does the ASUS Sabertooth Z87 has a sleep or hibernate option built into the BIOS? And if so, how do I turn it out. I don't want the system sleeping or hibernating at all.

If I turn sleep and hibernate off in Windows 7 is that enough, or do I have to make a change on the BIOS of the motherboard too?

Thanks,
-Rob