Question Asus PA238Q dead, simple needs

[tinpanalley]

I have very simple needs. I need no more than FHD 1080p. I do lots of very simple video editing, so the only spec that really matters to me is to have decent contrast ratio.

Since I last bought a monitor viewing angles have probably significantly improved so that's probably not something to worry too much about but it is important to me to have good angles. I imagine this can be had rather cheap in a new monitor but I'd like to keep this purchase relatively cheap in any event.

I'd say 95% of this monitor's use is regular productivity and browsing. But it's just that in that 5% there is video and photo editing (again, very basic) but I do keep my monitors calibrated. If it makes any difference whatsoever, my GPU is a AMD Radeon R9 280.

So, what can be had for a low price that basically does all this? Any help would be wonderful.

In case anyone's interested my PA238Q seems to have crapped out overnight. It turns on but it won't display anything. White power light button comes on but then turns orange which is usually lit when there is no signal. I verified the DVI cable, I tried an HDMI cable, the GPU output to my TV just fine (which I'm on right now) so it's not likely a desktop issue. I will say it seemed to be having bizarre delays lately when booting. Like times when it wouldn't seem to 'catch' that the computer was trying to send it a signal. TV output has always been fine.

 

[mindless1]

If you can solder then you might pop the Asus open and check the PSU board for popped capacitor(s). Even if you want an upgrade, it might be DIY repairable for some other purpose, for around $5-$10 total.

Sorry I can't help on a replacement, have gravitated towards cheap 4K displays rather than high contrast.

 

[tinpanalley]

If you can solder then you might pop the Asus open and check the PSU board for popped capacitor(s). Even if you want an upgrade, it might be DIY repairable for some other purpose, for around $5-$10 total.

Sorry I can't help on a replacement, have gravitated towards cheap 4K displays rather than high contrast.

Ok, interesting idea. To be honest I've been wanting a soldering pen for some time. No time like the present. And so how do I verify, a) that it's a capacitor, b) what kind I would need, c) how the repair is done?

 

[Dranoche]

If you're looking for a close replacement with the same or similar features and don't want something larger, it looks like Asus still has a couple 24-inch models in the same line. They're kind of old though. The rest of the line are 27-inch and 32-inch models which look a bit pricey. Looks like the big feature with them is out of the box color accuracy. If you calibrate yourself but accuracy isn't absolutely critical then any decent IPS should cover you, though there don't seem to be many new 1080p ~24-inch IPS models. Might be time to step up to something a bit larger. Sorry I can't provide any specific recommendations.

If you're interested in trying to repair it, look for any capacitors that are bulged on top or look like they have been leaking. If you can find any, there's a decent chance that's the problem and you can try replacing the damaged capacitor and any around it. If you can't find any then it's probably not worth spending any more time on it. It could still be one or more capacitors - they don't always show signs of failure. Or a chip somewhere on one of the boards may have burned out without any obvious visual sign. In that case you might replace the capacitors and still not get it working. Capacitors are generally cheap though, so it's worth trying if for nothing other than practice.

Most electrolytic capacitors will have the capacitance, tolerance, and max voltage printed on them. Sites like Mouser or Digi-key are a good place to find replacements. Before you start removing any of the old capacitors, take some pictures and draw a sketch noting the type of capacitor at each location and the polarity orientation of each capacitor. As for the actual soldering, Google and Youtube.

 

[mindless1]

Ok, interesting idea. To be honest I've been wanting a soldering pen for some time. No time like the present. And so how do I verify, a) that it's a capacitor, b) what kind I would need, c) how the repair is done?

This is somewhat of a broad topic, where it would take me about the same amount of time to explain in great detail, as to just do it myself. All the concepts involved can be found with a web search, how to open a TV, how to spot bad caps, how to solder, how to pick replacement caps, what size soldering iron to get (~30W-40W is a ballpark until you know differently) etc.

Far more often than not, when a cap in a monitor/tv fails it vents the top and you see it domed or possibly even a crusty residue. You can do a web image search for failed capacitors to see examples.

They pop most often on the PSU board, or some are more integrated and the PSU is on the mainboard. Doesn't really matter which, I mean if you have a separate PSU board then you pull that out to look at it first (may be behind a metal shield).

You'd get a replacement cap with about the same values as what you replace, especially voltage (though a little higher would work too but (almost) never lower), noting the lead spacing, the diameter, and height. Sometimes off-brands of caps have impossibly low volume and you'll need to go slightly taller so measure the available clearance. Get a physical size the same (or taller if it fits) and round up on capacitance if necessary to match what is available in the caps you're looking at get ting.

You'd pick very low ESR caps. There are many major brands and models to choose from, and even tiers where the "best" is overkill. Last time I stocked up on caps for repairing items like that, I got some Panasonic FS. Here is a link to make it easier, Digikey is a good place to get them because they're known good (not counterfeit, and fresh stock) and they offer inexpensive USPS shipping for orders under (8?) oz which would be more than the caps would weigh.

Capacitors | Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors | DigiKey

Capacitors - Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors are in stock at Digikey. Order Now! Capacitors ship same day

www.digikey.com

Those FS caps are a fairly modern high density design so it wouldn't be surprising if the capacitance is significantly higher for the same physical size cap but that is okay, within reason.

How the repair is done is you just desolder the bad caps and put the replacements in, observing the correct polarity. If you don't have a soldering iron and need to learn that skill, they you have a bit of a learning curve there and might first practice soldering on some old junked equipment. "Usually" if a TV PSU board is separate, it is single sided so the soldering is pretty easy to do, but if it is integrated onto the mainboard, it might be double sided and need a higher wattage iron to heat the solder joints enough.

However, it might not be the caps but it costs you nothing to pop it open and check, assuming the warranty had already expired. You go as far as you can and if it's not possible to repair, away it goes to trash or recycling. I'd estimate that at least 70% of TVs and monitors that I've had fail (or were brought to me to look at), did so because of bad caps.

 

[tinpanalley]

Might be time to step up to something a bit larger.

Well, in the end, I ended up going with an Acer that was 27". I realised options increased when I looked at 27" and honestly, I'd always wanted a slightly larger screen.

it would take me about the same amount of time to explain in great detail,

Actually, this is EXACTLY what I needed. I didn't need step by step instructions but rather an idea of what to do and what to look for. So your post is super helpful. The details of 'how' I can look up on my own. But I will maybe bug you for any advice on a soldering iron/pen. I've wanted one for a long time for different small home repairs. But I'm not up to speed on specs or quality solder.

 

[mindless1]

Choice of soldering iron depends on the budget, how often you'll use it, types of repairs or projects, etc.

For very basic work, starting out and not knowing how much use you'd get out of it, I'd get something like a 40W Hakko:

Amazon.com: Hakko 508-1/P Solder Iron, Lightweight, 40W, Blue : Tools & Home Improvement

Amazon.com: Hakko 508-1/P Solder Iron, Lightweight, 40W, Blue : Tools & Home Improvement

www.amazon.com

Those who have been doing it longer might suggest a $100 Weller or Hakko solder station as an entry level item, or a Hakko clone iron with a small chisel tip instead of a conical tip.

I find Kester 63/37 rosin core solder to be the most versatile and easy to work with but I usually buy it by the pound.

https://www.amazon.com/Kester-24-6337-0027-Solder-Alloy-Diameter/dp/B0149K4JTY

In a smaller quantity, anything you can find like 60/40 for $3 would work. Some irons come with a starter coil of solder. I'd avoid lead free solder when starting out, and until you have a soldering station with good, calibrated temperature control. There is no problem soldering products that were made with lead free solder, using leaded solder. Try not to eat it.

 

[Steltek]

Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to pick up some no-clean solder wick, too.

 

[tinpanalley]

Super, thanks! I'll have to look up what no-clean solder wick is and what it's for
For the time being my new monitor is on its way, but it can't hurt having a second one handy for certain editing projects.

 

[mindless1]

No-clean is a type of flux that hardens and doesn't "have" to be removed, but is generally not as active as rosin.

If it is a double sided board, you may find it much easier to use solder wick, but if a single sided board, for something with only two pins like a capacitor, it's not really needed as you can just heat one lead, rock the top of the cap the opposite direction, heat the other lead and rock it back, wiggling it out a millimeter at a time. It is easier to do than describe, but if they happen to have used some adhesive to hold the cap to the board, it may be easier to cut through that with a razor knife before trying to desolder it.

Then when it comes time to put the new cap in, if the hole is plugged with solder, take a dental pick, or just a plain sewing needle (whatever) and stick it down in the hole while the iron melts the solder, and wiggle it a bit while the solder hardens so it is not trapped in it, and leaves behind holes of sufficient size to slip the new capacitor's leads into. Once you get the technique down it is quick and easy to do.

Generally speaking, it is much easier to replace capacitors on the typical single sided TV PSU board, than on something like a computer motherboard.

 

[tinpanalley]

Choice of soldering iron depends on the budget, how often you'll use it, types of repairs or projects, etc.
For very basic work, starting out and not knowing how much use you'd get out of it, I'd get something like a 40W Hakko:

Ok, well, I probably wouldn't use it on a regular basis but I can think of about 5-6 different projects right now around the house that would benefit from a soldering iron. But I would prefer, as i do everytime I buy tools like this to have something that can work well as an all purpose rather than an entry level that I'll want to upgrade from in the future. And I'd like a stand personally. But you'd say I should stick to Hakko and Weller for brands?

 

[mindless1]

There are lots of brands (and generics) that will last a "few" years. Hakko and Weller can last a lifetime for occasional use. There are clones of an older model Hakko (but lower quality) that take Hakko 900M series tips that are a fair value on a tight budget, but this is more for intricate electronics work where you want a soldering station with adjustable temperature.

936A 110V Adjustable Plastic Electric Soldering Station Pack Solder Iron Welding | eBay

1 x Soldering Station Kit. The handle is very lightweight and comfortable to hold. Temperature Range: 200-480 degree centigrade. Material: Plastic Housing. Made of durable material,anti-corrosion and wear resistance.

www.ebay.com

11pcs 4mm jack Soldering Iron Tips for 936 900M-T Soldering Rework Station Tool | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 11pcs 4mm jack Soldering Iron Tips for 936 900M-T Soldering Rework Station Tool at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

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For general electrical repairs, that Hakko 40W I linked previously should be fine, and outlast the generic 936A linked above except for the tips themselves. You can get a stand separately, there's nothing special about the stand on most. "Some" have some fancy magnetic switch that turns it off or idle when the iron is in the stand but meh, it's just another thing to eventually fail, IMO.

Better would be the next step up in either brand that takes tips with an iron tip as it won't get eaten up by the solder flux as quickly as nickel plated copper will, like the generic tips linked above or the real Hakko tips. This is a whole topic onto itself, picking the best iron for your subjective needs and budget.

If the budget will stretch to $105-$110 then I'd get a Hakko FX888D, or Weller WE1010, and a set of tips for it separately. The fine conical tip that most come with, isn't nearly as useful as a medium-small chisel tip. Soldering small things is more about technique than the tip size (within reason) and a small conical tip just can't deliver heat well.

Hakko FX888D-23BY Digital Soldering Station FX-888D FX-888 (blue & yellow): Power Soldering Accessories: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Hakko FX888D-23BY Digital Soldering Station FX-888D FX-888 (blue & yellow): Power Soldering Accessories: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

https://www.amazon.com/Weller-WE1010NA-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B077JDGY1J

 

[tinpanalley]

How about this?
I have to buy from Amazon Canada.

 

[mindless1]

I'd check some youtube videos of long term owners because I've no experience with it. Long term because when you stuff the electronics and a switch (or is it a continuously variable potentiometer?) in something that gets that hot, it tends not to bode well for lifespan.

It also doesn't appear to be grounded which is useful for electronics sensitive to ESD or in this case because it has mains AC going into it. I don't know if it heats and recovers temp as fast as a normal soldering station either.

It's also expensive for what it is but I assume that has to due with being in Canada. I'd sooner get a basic 40W fixed output iron locally (hardware store?) if you need one right away then wait on a sale on a traditional station style Hakko or Weller.

It is handy to have at least two soldering irons, because if one breaks, you need the other to fix it, or you could be working on something that benefits from two different tip shapes but you don't want to fiddle with swapping tips on an iron while hot.

 

[tinpanalley]

I can't tell you anything this dude is saying but he takes a pretty deep look at it, you might be able to discern something from what he shows, but otherwise I seem to see lots of people being really happy with it on different sites.
I also want to be sure I can use several different tips if I need it.

 

[mindless1]

It does take their better tips so you have that option, but I couldn't make out what he was saying either and the video wasn't that long so since he had a stack of several, it looked more like he was an importer pimping a product.

Overall I suspect it will have a shoter lifespan:cost ratio than a normal base station iron, but if you need portability along with temp adjustment, it still looks better built than the flimsy TS-80/100 irons, which many like for their portability but not as much as a replacement for their main use iron.

 

[tinpanalley]

Ok looks like I'm not going to get anything for less than $150. So I think this project will have to wait until later. Unfortunately.

 

[mindless1]

For your first iron, just grab something from the local hardware store for $10... it'd be different if it were a big investment but you can still get lots done with a low end iron, and from a local store it is likely to be fair quality instead of generic chinese garbage where even the power cord falls apart.

You're allowed to upgrade later and own more than one! Personally I like having the full station type for a home workstaton and a basic 40W in a toolbox in the garage, for automotive or mobile use, but way back when I started soldering, I got by for a few years with a basic Radio Shack iron (before internet shopping was a thing so much fewer choices) that wasn't any better (if as good) as the 40W Hakko linked previously.

 

[tinpanalley]

This is somewhat of a broad topic, where it would take me about the same amount of time to explain in great detail, as to just do it myself. All the concepts involved can be found with a web search, how to open a TV, how to spot bad caps, how to solder, how to pick replacement caps, what size soldering iron to get (~30W-40W is a ballpark until you know differently) etc.

Far more often than not, when a cap in a monitor/tv fails it vents the top and you see it domed or possibly even a crusty residue. You can do a web image search for failed capacitors to see examples.

Hey again,
So I ended up doing more research and have gotten myself a good starter soldering iron. I didn't wanna drop this project, I have so many little things I wanna repair, try to fix, etc.

So I got this Weller after a lot of reading, asking around, research, etc. I also picked up some tip cleaner and 63/37 solder. I just wanted to say thank you for your help. I now just have to do some more research to figure out how to see where the caps are in this monitor and find out if they're in bad shape or not.

 

[mindless1]

The first thing I would've done is popped the back off the monitor, then see if there is a separate board with a metal cover over it, but really anywhere you can see a bad looking cap, replace it. While you're at it, some people would also replace the other caps in the same (output) area of the SMPS subcircuit, which is usually no more than 3-4 caps, though you may already see more than one that have bulged.

For example here is a pic from an ebay listing claiming it is the power board for your model monitor, so the more likely bad caps would be at top right, then top center.

Monitor ASUS Pb238q Power Supply Board 715g4832-p02-001-003h for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Monitor ASUS Pb238q Power Supply Board 715g4832-p02-001-003h at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[tinpanalley]

I keep getting people over on linustechtips telling me it's more complicated. Losing hope...
I often gauge answers for help from both places. Not questioning you just trying to see all angles.

 

[mindless1]

The problem seems to be that you never did anything. First thing to do is open the monitor and inspect it, whether it be sighting a bad cap, or something else.

Well, maybe that's the second thing. In a case where the backlight has failed, you'd apply a video signal (leave it connected as it last worked) so when it should be on, you shine a flashlight at it at an angle in a low lit room to see if there is any image on screen - except that is probably a waste of time in this case because if it was just backlighting, the indicator LED would have stayed in the active color not the orange color.

However someone on the other forum stated "If you're absolutely convinced it is a capacitor, you'll need a ESR meter and a capacitance meter, and test suspect capacitors for both their capacitance and ESR - failure mode can be one or the other, or both. Failed capacitors need not be bulging. ", which is true in theory, but false in practice. Practically every time a capacitor has failed to the point of a non-working monitor, it will have bulged or leaked and left crusty electrolyte behind. The circuits in a monitor do not depend on precise capacitance values and if the ESR was too high, it heats up (or electrolyte decomposes) and bulges or leaks before it gets so bad that the monitor doesn't work.

Lastly I did not mean to imply that a bad cap is "probably" the problem, only that it is a very (IMO, the most common by far unless it saw a power surge) common problem and one easily enough detected from visual observation. Rule out the more common things before getting to potential faults that take more time (or firing the parts cannon = money).

You wrote "White power light button comes on but then turns orange which is usually lit when there is no signal. " Attempting to turn a monitor on and having it go into its low power sleep mode similar to no video signal can be a bad capacitor. I have had that happen to monitors. It doesn't necessarily mean no video, can also mean the rest isn't running enough for the logic to toggle the LED state.

 

[Steltek]

It might help to look at the caps under a magnifying glass, if you have one. Even before my vision deteriorated to the point it is now, the extra magnification was sometimes helpful in identifying a borderline capacitor.

I really miss our old Radio Shack store for things like this. The old man that owned and ran it was an absolute electronics fanatic - if you needed it, he either had it or knew where he could get it for you cheap. With him as a resource, it was literally cheaper to replace ALL the caps on a board than it was to buy the equipment to test them. It was a good thing that he retired and eventually passed on before Radio Shack became what it was and then failed - he'd have been so very disappointed in them.

BTW, the last monitor I took apart a few years ago (it was a Dell) had a circuit board with a couple of caps and resistors on it around the HDMI/DVI/VGA ports as well. You might want to take a gander around that area as well if you get it disassembled that far.

 

[tinpanalley]

The first thing I would've done is popped the back off the monitor,..

Ok, so you won't believe this, but I've actually only now gotten to this.
I cracked it open, sure enough there was a power board and this is what it looked like.


Very dirty, so I cleaned it all out.
Then I noticed that the only cap that looked in bad shape, bulging, was the one on the elevated green mini board on the top left of the photo. Here's a closeup... bit blurry, sorry.


The others all looking fine...




So that mini green board would have to be desoldered from the brown board, then the cap replaced, and even then it wouldn't be with any assurance that it would solve anything. But to answer your question (and thanks again for the help by the way) yes, there does seem to be a bad cap in there and precisely on the power board.

 

[mindless1]

Don't know what to state at this point. Everyone has their own priorities and parts supplies vs uses for parts otherwise.

I already have a suitable cap I could throw in to test it, but if you don't, up to you to try replacing the cap and if it doesn't help, having a new cap you can remove and use for something else. It's a wide world out there, what parts are useful to one person but not another and what efforts are worthwhile to try.

It's also possible that downstream components are already damaged from that cap failing. Too much time has passed, I don't recall the particulars of the topic, but personally, what I'd do, and have done, is put in an order to digikey and order that cap along with other common values that monitors and other consumer electronics often have fail so I have stock to put in as needed... whole other can of worms, being ready for a cap failure ahead of time.

Your call. Obviously the easiest answer is trash it and buy new but I hate to default to that position when I end up repairing roughly 80% of things that fail, but it is a learning curve and being able to analyze and fix time effectively too.

Some things are old tech in substantial ways so not worth fixing. A 23" 1080p monitor, I would fix for a secondary use but for a primary use, I'd think it was time for an upgrade in size and resolution. Even so, I'd throw a new cap in and if I didn't have a use for the monitor, it's a $1 cap and I could sell or give it to someone. If it didn't work with a new cap, little ventured, pull the cap and move on unless you want to invest even more in a whole power board (if isolated to the cause), which I would not do for a mere 23", 1080p monitor.

Ultimately I think this monitor is not worth much to you to have waited this long, but with it open, swapping a cap is not much effort either, depends on what you are practiced at doing, desoldering a daughterboard is just a few minutes with desoldering braid or a hot air rework station.

Too much text on my part, more than the $1 cap or time to replace it, lol.