Info Asus, Gigabyte and Asrock adding Vermeer and Renoir support to A320 boards. (Update: 1.2.0.7 adds Cezanne support to 300 series)

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,625
1,306
136
Early this month they started to make the bios avalible to all models, but only to A320 boards, B350 and X370 were left out because they are EOL and A320 is still in production.

Not sure why Vermeer, it would have been better to have Cezanne.

EDIT: MSI updated to ComboPI 1.1.0.0 with the bios that say "Win11 Support" for the B350/X370 boards that bios have the microcode for Renoir and Veermer and they work.
But, this is likely a oversight on MSI part(they never released A320 updates like the other brands did, it is unannounced, it removes BR support and they told no one about it, and 1.1.0.0 is petty old), so expect issues.

EDIT2: Gigabyte is launching B350/X370 bios with Renoir support that also have Veermer and Cezanne microcodes. NO idea if they will boot up.

EDIT3: as of 03/30/22 Asus is starting to roll out bios updates for their B350 and X370 boards, no Cezanne support yet.

EDIT4: today 5/3/22 Asrock released their 1.2.0.7 bios for the A320M-HDV r4.0 with full Cezanne support, other brands should follow soon. It looks like AM4 is finally unified.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: DAPUNISHER

.vodka

Golden Member
Dec 5, 2014
1,197
1,516
136
ASUS A320 boards boot Vermeer with the new BIOSes. They're even listed in the CPU compatibility list.

Asrock's A320 boards do, too. Link to one

Biostar started distributing A320 BIOSes based on the same AGESA v2 1.2.0.3c release. Vermeer support, too.

Vermeer on A320 is not a gigabyte only thing. It is a public, not restricted to OEMs release, done so far by Asus, Gigabyte, Asrock and Biostar. MSI is probably next.People tried crossflashing these Asrock A320 BIOSes to X370 boards like the C6H, Vermeer doesn't POST. If you crossflash B450/X470 V2 1.2.0.3c BIOSes to X370 boards, Vermeer doesn't POST.


If I were to guess, the block is being done through a whitelist based on some identifier each chipset uses to identify itself, and it's defined at build time so no way to go looking around the AGESA black box to edit it. But then you'd probably break the signature and the whole thing would become an unbootable brick. This theory would be confirmed if someone were to swap, say, B350/X370 for B450/X470. They're the same silicon, so they should be pin compatible too.

The big change in the chipset will be in the power consumption. Currently the X370 chipset, built on a 55nm manufacturing process using ASMedia IP, runs at a 6.8W TDP (running at full load). For X470, we were told that this is the same process and IP, but the chip will now run at 4.8W peak and 1.9W in an idle mode. This is due to an improved power infrastructure within the chip, and AMD also claims that overall throughput is improved. The chipset firmware is also set to provide better memory OC support and stability.
Anyway, the point being is, AMD went out of their way to implement this block on AGESA V2 1.2.x.x and it's still there, in full force. Every reason they gave for not doing Zen3 on 300 series chipsets has been debunked so far, proven to be lies and excuses. They're even doing it themselves on A320 now.

I particularly like this answer to one of AMD's employees on the big reddit thread

But then comes A320 along with official, public (non OEM only) AGESA v2 support for Renoir and Vermeer (not Cezanne, doesn't POST, so that's locked) a few weeks ago and B350/X370 getting this treatment now (Renoir allowed, Vermeer and Cezanne don't POST/are locked). There's a business decision here to leave 300 series chipsets out from day one, that has turned into specifically making B350/X370 outcasts and I don't know why.
Outcasts, couldn't have put it better.

It is what it is.

Screw artificial, deliberate limitations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KompuKare

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,625
1,306
136
The block its not chipset based. As i said, the A320M-S2H V2 wouldnt boot Veermer CPUs if that were the case, and it seems they do. It is using some other parameter, and the only thing it makes sence is the motherboard name.
Unless they are specifically whitelisting X models.

Well, what had we learn here? dont buy high end, 1st gen AM5 motherboards. The message is very clear.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KompuKare

KompuKare

Senior member
Jul 28, 2009
796
400
136
I particularly like this answer to one of AMD's employees on the big reddit thread
Outcasts, couldn't have put it better.

It is what it is.

Screw artificial, deliberate limitations.
Never registered on Reddit but tempted just to join with those protesting this nonsense. PCIe 4.0 I sort of could understand (or force everyone who wanted to enable PCIe 4.0 for the M.2 to read a long statement about possible date corruption), but this is just stupid segmentation for no reason. X370 buyers were likely to have been the bigger spending early AM4 adapter too.

Then again wasn't there a brigade on Reddit defending A520 coming without PCIe 4.0 going on about the "chipset" not supporting it . the A?20 chipsets are mostly the CPU SOC and besides the PCIe 4.0 for M.2 on B550 comes directly from the CPU so the chipset has nothing to do with it. Older A320 boards where the OEM scimped on the signalling are a separate issue.
 

bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
3,784
91
91
Seems like some manufacturers like MSI, Asus (not sure about others) are not listing Vermeer on their compatible list of cpus but are silently adding Vermeers to their supported list on A320 boards. Not sure about this but MSI might be the first one to (silently) add Vermeers to b350 boards, so other makers might follow suit.

Cezanne was probably not added because of lack of bios space, all the b350/a320 boards still support Bristol Ridge unlike b450 models which booted out BR to make room for Zen3 models.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,625
1,306
136
Cezanne was probably not added because of lack of bios space, all the b350/a320 boards still support Bristol Ridge unlike b450 models which booted out BR to make room for Zen3 models.
No, the bios size limitation is a lie and always was. In fact A320 do have the Cezanne microcode in their bios, but it is just blocked from booting up. At any rate, B450 16MB boards can support everything.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DAPUNISHER

bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
3,784
91
91
No, the bios size limitation is a lie and always was. In fact A320 do have the Cezanne microcode in their bios, but it is just blocked from booting up. At any rate, B450 16MB boards can support everything.
B450 board do not have Bristol Ridge compatibility, the bios descriptions says that that support was dropped in the more recent bios versions to make room for Matisse and newer cpus. Not disagreeing with what you are saying about Cezanne, just that B350/A320 still supports BR but new bios's for B450 do not.

Its a good thing that MSI silently gave B350 support for Vermeer/Renoir even though they were EOL'd.
 

Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
4,696
1,285
136
B450 board do not have Bristol Ridge compatibility, the bios descriptions says that that support was dropped in the more recent bios versions to make room for Matisse and newer cpus. Not disagreeing with what you are saying about Cezanne, just that B350/A320 still supports BR but new bios's for B450 do not.
My B450-E never supported BR, so there isn't anything to remove. Likewise with my B450M-PRO S.

If you're running BR for some reason, better to just stay on a working BIOS. I doubt there is much improvement for it anyway.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,625
1,306
136
B450 board do not have Bristol Ridge compatibility, the bios descriptions says that that support was dropped in the more recent bios versions to make room for Matisse and newer cpus. Not disagreeing with what you are saying about Cezanne, just that B350/A320 still supports BR but new bios's for B450 do not.

Its a good thing that MSI silently gave B350 support for Vermeer/Renoir even though they were EOL'd.
B450 never supported BR, and A320/B350/X370 are dropping BR support with the new bios. This is due to share the same agesa build as B450 boards that never supported BR to start with.

But again, it never was a bios size thing (the microcode is very small, just a few KBs, i think the entire AM4 lineup is less than 2MB). It was a bussiness decision to drop BR support starting with the 400 chipset series, and from that point on, 300 and 400 were on two diferent developments cycles, not only because of BR, they planned to just drop 300 series support for Matisse too, they had to revert that decision due to the backlash.

The 300 boards are now switching to 400 series agesa builds that has blocks in place to avoid having a combination that AMD does not want. They only really want to support Renoir with this, not sure wth happened with Veermer and A320 there.

AMD Renoirs PRO are starting to show up everywhere and in good amounts. And there is now the new Athlon based on it and the rumored Renoir-X skus whiout IGP.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: bononos

bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
3,784
91
91
B450 never supported BR, and A320/B350/X370 are dropping BR support with the new bios. This is due to share the same agesa build as B450 boards that never supported BR to start with.
.............
Yes, you're right, I made a wrong assumption when I read the description on a mid-2019 MSI bios update which said that BR wasn't supported and thought that BR was supported when b450 was released.
 

Timorous

Senior member
Oct 27, 2008
897
1,144
136
Has anybody had any luck getting that B350 Tomahawk bios working on a B350M Mortar? If I can get a working vermeer BIOS for my Mortar then I am very likely to upgrade to the 5800X3D if the price is not absurd.

Edit: As for why AMD did this perhaps it is supply/demand related. If 350/370 owners could have upgraded to zen3 from the off I think the part shortages would have been even worse. Of course now there is less reason to block those chips when they are allowed to work on thr objectively inferior A320 platform.
 
Last edited:

.vodka

Golden Member
Dec 5, 2014
1,197
1,516
136
Well, this thread blew up. Good to see Tom's looking into it:

AMD: We're Exploring Supporting Ryzen 5000 on 300-Series Motherboards

Thing is, there is nothing to explore, AMD.

I see the infamous Gigabyte A320M-S2H V2 (B350 in disguise with Vermeer support because of it being "A320") got some attention too. Even The Stilt got caught up in all of that, lol


Has anybody had any luck getting that B350 Tomahawk bios working on a B350M Mortar? If I can get a working vermeer BIOS for my Mortar then I am very likely to upgrade to the 5800X3D if the price is not absurd.
I don't think anybody has tried. That B350 Tomahawk BIOS is based on AGESA v2 1.1.0.0, so it doesn't have any of the artificial locks. If the B350M Mortar is similar enough, it could work. Do you have a SPI programmer? One of those cheap CH341a programmers will do the job.

It may as well not work, for example ASUS boards get bricked if you try to use a BIOS from another model, even from the same family.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ranulf

AnitaPeterson

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2001
5,809
201
106
I can't believe that a basic board like the Biostar A320MH (which has by now reached revision 6!) can run a 5600X, while a more expensive Fatal1ty AB350 won't be able to do it... Yet, here we are!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ranulf

Asterox

Senior member
May 15, 2012
867
1,431
136
Finally, now it's official Bios support.


 
Last edited:

Shmee

Memory and Storage, Graphics Cards
Super Moderator
Sep 13, 2008
6,041
1,403
136
Very good news! I hope there are many more supported boards to come!
 

Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
4,696
1,285
136
Very good news! I hope there are many more supported boards to come!
Indeed. Hope my Crosshair VI gets the treatment.

With my Asrock AB350M Pro4 it doesn't matter too much. That thing has never been stable with any Ryzen APUs anyway. But the AGESA update is appreciated.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,625
1,306
136
I wonder if AMD has a 12-year old making these decisions...

-They release Renoir and Veermer support to A320, A320 is still in production and they need to sell Renoirs, this makes sence. Yet no one stops for one second to think that they already had problems with people with flagships or very good 300 boards complaining about lacking Veermer support. You only need to stop for two seconds to realise that people is going to complain about it.

-After the complains on reddit and the bios size limitation and all their excuses proveen to be lies once again, they release Renoir only to B350/X370, what only ends up pissing people even more. Just stop to think, everyone wanted to have the same support as A320, thats NOT the same!!!!

-Now they release Veermer support to X370 only, and B350 is left aside. This looks like highschool level BS to me.

-Cezanne still locked out of the 300 series for... reasons.

Just unify everything and move on AM5, they are just pissing people off with these poor attempts at artificial segmentation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: .vodka and Ranulf

Shmee

Memory and Storage, Graphics Cards
Super Moderator
Sep 13, 2008
6,041
1,403
136
I wonder when my Gigabyte B350M Gaming 3 gets a new update...
 

.vodka

Golden Member
Dec 5, 2014
1,197
1,516
136
beta for x370 taichi leaked a month ago (might be a hack by someone outside of asrock):
Post #1 vom 09.12.2020, 10:17
That's one of the original experimental B350/X370 BIOSes (AGESA v2 1.1.0.0) Asrock put out back in December 2020, that resulted in them getting a warning from AMD.

We could've officially had Zen3 on 300 series boards back then, but AMD had to go ahead and lock things out in AGESA v2 1.1.8.0 (Zen3 release) and later 1.2.x.x based BIOSes.

Screw artificial limitations.
 

Ranulf

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2001
1,807
340
126
Nothing from Gigabyte on my AORUS GA-AX370-Gaming K7. Though I did learn they added 3000 series support in late 2019.
 

bdunosk

Senior member
Sep 26, 2000
572
1
81
Thanks to all who posted info... I was hoping to drop a 5700g into my Asus B350 ROG Strix, sounds like I need to start researching Alder Lake this time around.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: igor_kavinski

Shmee

Memory and Storage, Graphics Cards
Super Moderator
Sep 13, 2008
6,041
1,403
136
Update here, looks like Gigabyte has released a new BIOS with Vermeer support for my B350M gaming 3 board. Yay! The version is labeled T51c, which is kind of odd. Odder still, this version is dated a couple of days before the latest F51d, and it has an earlier AGESA listed, despite claiming to support the newer CPUs, including the 5800X3D. https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-AB350M-Gaming-3-rev-1x/support#support-dl-bios

I may start looking for deals on a 5950X, and move the 5900X over to the B350 computer. Thoughts on this?
 

igor_kavinski

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2020
3,898
2,356
106
That's incredibly frustrating that some boards are getting BIOS updates while others aren't. And AMD artificially limiting CPU support. That's so not AMD of them.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY