ASUS BS or the truth about nVidia nf4 SATA Raid?

[Cisco2]

I have the OS installed in a SATA II HD on SATA 1. I also have one 2 identical WD 80GB drives in SATA 3 & 4. All is well in regular, non-raid mode, but as soon as I set the 2 in SATA 3 & 4 into an array windows will not boot. I have uninstalled, used drivercleaner pro and reinstalled everything nVidia several times with no change.

The nVidia RAID utility sets the stripe just fine but as soon as the XP logo shows up the boot process stops and it crashes. Lately when this happens I get a BSOD with a message about my MB (A8N32) not being fully ACPI compliant.

I phoned ASUS and this is what they said:

"Any drives in SATA 1, 2, 3 & 4 must be in RAID or not in RAID but they can't be mixed."

So I then asked him about putting one in as a JBOD and the other 2 as RAID 0...he didn't seem to know what I meant..lol. He just reiterated that I should move the one I don't want to RAID to the Sil controller.

I decided to try a JBOD for the one + the other 2 in RAID 0...same problem, same message.

Have any of you been succesful in doing what I'm trying with an nf4 board with 4 nVidia SATA plugs? or is ASUS tech support right?

 

[Capt Caveman]

I run my OS on a single 74gb raptor in SATA 1 and I run a RAID 0 on SATA 3 and 4. No issues. Have you installed the nvidia raid drivers?

 

[Cisco2]

Yeah..I've installed and uninstalled and reinstalled them...no change. Even though they're the same drivers, I've also tried the ones in the ASUS CD and the ones DL'd from nVidia... same revision number, same file sizes, just slightly different time stamps...by a few hours At the moment, 6.82 is the only set of drivers for use... slightly new chipset and all.

I thought ASUS's answer sounded weird...glad to see a Premium can do it... Many people have reported RAID issues with our board. Oddly enough those who want to install XP in an array and use a diskette with the IDE and RAID drivers during install seem to be having the best luck.

 

[grooge]

Originally posted by: Cisco2
Oddly enough those who want to install XP in an array and use a diskette with the IDE and RAID drivers during install seem to be having the best luck.

Normal, because it is the way to do it. RAID is a controller mode, not a HDD mode. When you activate RAID, the controller stop being a normal IDE controller and become a new RAID ide controller. So, you need to load new driver off a floppy in order to have Windows to know how to use the new device. Once the controller is set to RAID, then an array has to be defined before actually being able to use the array. So, you cannot expect to have 2 drives with stuff in to be set as a RAID array on the fly. While creating a RAID1 array will preserve the data on 1 drive and mirror it on the other, RAID0 will destruct the data on both drive and merge the 2 HDD together to create one HDD twice the size of the smallest drive on the array.

 

[Cisco2]

Originally posted by: grooge

Originally posted by: Cisco2
Oddly enough those who want to install XP in an array and use a diskette with the IDE and RAID drivers during install seem to be having the best luck.

Normal, because it is the way to do it. RAID is a controller mode, not a HDD mode.

Yes, I understand what RAID is but...

Suppose you don't have 3 SATA HDs to begin with, just the one. You install WinXP, install the chipset drivers (which include the nVidia SATA drivers) You get no mention of a RAID driver in Device Manager this way so you enable RAID in BIOS and do not RAID anything. When you boot into windows this time you look in device manager and see the SATA RAID controller installed with the proper driver. This lets you know that the chipset driver install program did in fact install the nVidia driver for winXP properly.

Then... you go and get 2 identical SATA drives and plug them into SATA 3 and SATA 4, enable 3&4 in BIOS for raid, use the nVidia boot utility to set-up a RAID 0 stripe, erase data etc...and then winXP crashes on boot and will not boot unless I disable RAID. I get a BSOD which tells me my BIOS is not fully ACPI compliant (btw...the 2 new drives work jus fine as individual SATA HDs.)

So...are you saying that once winXP is installed and you get 2 new HDs you have to reinstall XP using a RAID driver floppy? If this is the case then this will be the first motherboard in the history of motherboards that requires a complete XP re-install when you want to add 2 new HDs in RAID. lol

This indicates a problem to me...not a "proper instalation of RAID" issue. And ASUS's very helpful (not!) response is "When using 3 SATA HDs, they must all be in RAID or none in RAID." Which was what I said in my original message.

I know you guys are trying to be helpful and I thank you for trying, but don't assume due to te small # of Anandtech posts I have that I don't know what I am doing...I do.

This thread asks a simple question: Are any of you running 3 SATA HD's in an nVidia nf4 chipset motherboard with 2 drives in RAID and one not in raid? (In other words, I think ASUS tech support is not telling the truth...I already have confirmation from another forum, that an ASUS SLI Premium can run 1 SATA drive not in raid and a RAID 0 array in 2 others with no fuss no muss.)

Perhaps my English is not as good as I thought...which would be a big bummer since I can't communicate worth a crap in any other language

 

[tomt4535]

Im running 2 raptors in SATA1 and SATA2, and ive got my Seagate 300gb SATA in SATA3. No problems here. The only thing thats kinda wierd is my OS drive array is drive F, while the backup drive is C. Other than that, Ive had no problems.

 

[grooge]

So...are you saying that once winXP is installed and you get 2 new HDs you have to reinstall XP using a RAID driver floppy? If this is the case then this will be the first motherboard in the history of motherboards that requires a complete XP re-install when you want to add 2 new HDs in RAID. lol

When you plugged the drives, and booted for the first time, did you create the array and then go into windows, or you just went into windows and started messing around with the drives?

 

[grooge]

sorry, I did not see the line where you said you did it. I would just download the latest drivers from nvidia and install them. Not all the necessary drivers might have been installed at win install if the RAID controller was not set. And I was using 2 single disk with one RAID 0 array on my nforce4 motherboard without any problem

 

[Cisco2]

Originally posted by: tomt4535
Im running 2 raptors in SATA1 and SATA2, and ive got my Seagate 300gb SATA in SATA3. No problems here. The only thing thats kinda wierd is my OS drive array is drive F, while the backup drive is C. Other than that, Ive had no problems.

Thanks Tom, I knew that many would be running with 3 drives set-up the way want mine done.
I hate it when XP gets set-up on a volume other than C - mostly for cosmetic reasons, but there are still some programs with badly implememnted installers that will not install properly unless "C" is it...annoying

 

[Cisco2]

Originally posted by: grooge
sorry, I did not see the line where you said you did it. I would just download the latest drivers from nvidia and install them. Not all the necessary drivers might have been installed at win install if the RAID controller was not set. And I was using 2 single disk with one RAID 0 array on my nforce4 motherboard without any problem

Thanks for confirming that you have mixed RAID and non-RAID. I have tried re-installing the drivers several times...even at the individual file, manual instal level...still get same problem.

There has to be something screwy going on with this (and both Beta) BIOS. Another weird thing it does is that once you create a RAID array, the HDs are no longer auto-detected in the BIOS as individual HDs...they just disappear from auto-detect and the only hint that they exists is in the Boot configuration where the stripe shows up as a selectable boot option.

New board...new chipset...new problems...it's not unexpected. But ASUS's RAID nazi ("No RAID for you!") tech support is just unbelievably bad.

 

[grooge]

Originally posted by: Cisco2

There has to be something screwy going on with this (and both Beta) BIOS. Another weird thing it does is that once you create a RAID array, the HDs are no longer auto-detected in the BIOS as individual HDs...they just disappear from auto-detect and the only hint that they exists is in the Boot configuration where the stripe shows up as a selectable boot option.

New board...new chipset...new problems...it's not unexpected. But ASUS's RAID nazi ("No RAID for you!") tech support is just unbelievably bad.

Oh.. ok. I now have more information.. First, when the controller is set as RAID, it is normal that the drives dissapear from the BIOS drive list. They are now taken in charge by the nvraid BIOS" Nothing to worry there.

Second, you said new chipset. Does that means that these drives were used by another RAID controller?? If yes, then you have to erase the metadata written to the HDD that hold information about the array. If not done, or drives just being reformatted, then it is possible that the new metadata do not completly overwrite the old one, creating array conflict. The best way to do it is to use third party apps that will just wipe everything from the drive. Usually HDD man. has them on their web site..

 

[Cisco2]

Originally posted by: grooge

Oh.. ok. I now have more information.. First, when the controller is set as RAID, it is normal that the drives dissapear from the BIOS drive list. They are now taken in charge by the nvraid BIOS" Nothing to worry there.

Ok, thanks... this wasn't the case with my last MB (A7N8X-DX) but then RAID wan't integrated into the BIOS of that one. That was before nVidia expanded the chipset to include RAID so it used the Silicone Image SATA RAid controller. It makes sense that in that case the BIOS was unaware of the RAID and continued to autodetect them as individual drives.

Second, you said new chipset. Does that means that these drives were used by another RAID controller?? If yes, then you have to erase the metadata written to the HDD that hold information about the array. If not done, or drives just being reformatted, then it is possible that the new metadata do not completly overwrite the old one, creating array conflict. The best way to do it is to use third party apps that will just wipe everything from the drive. Usually HDD man. has them on their web site..

Great piece of advice, I didn't know that. Yes, they were in a silicon image RAID 0 stripe for nearly 3 years. I'll try that tonight and let you know.

Thanks again.

 

[mrestine]

Can you give me the URL to the "HDD man"? Thanx.

s/f
Mike

 

[Cisco2]

MY ISP was down all last night but I saw one of their service trucks mucking around with the cables this morning when I went to work. Hopefuly I'll get a chance to DL the proper utility tonight and give it a go.

 

[Peter]

grooge has it spot on. When you kick the NVidia SATA controller into RAID capable mode, its programming interface changes (away from generic PCI IDE into NVidia proprietary RAID controller), and you'll need a different driver - completely regardless of whether you're actually RAIDing any of the drives connected to it.

 

[caz67]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
I run my OS on a single 74gb raptor in SATA 1 and I run a RAID 0 on SATA 3 and 4. No issues. Have you installed the nvidia raid drivers?

Exactly the same set up, no issues at all.

 

[Cisco2]

Originally posted by: Peter
grooge has it spot on. When you kick the NVidia SATA controller into RAID capable mode, its programming interface changes (away from generic PCI IDE into NVidia proprietary RAID controller), and you'll need a different driver - completely regardless of whether you're actually RAIDing any of the drives connected to it.

Of course...and they ain't working too well for me and apparently many, many others with the ASUS A8N32-SLI DX. And ASUS tech support is not being particularly honest with their insinuation that 2 SATA HDs in RAID plus one SATA HD not in RAID is not a supported configuration...that is obviously wrong from the posts here and in other forms where I openly questioned their statement. I suppose it IS possible that this one MB doesn't support that, whereas all other nf4 MBs do...but I doubt it.

BTW... I did try all kinds of full wipes and reformats of the HDs in question and the problem persists. The drives work fine as individual HDs using either the nVidia IDE driver or the MS driver. They even do the MS software RAID 0 thing with dynamic disks just fine with either IDE driver.

But the moment I turn RAID on in BIOS and with the nVidia low-level RAID utility. windows blue-screens dring driver loading with the ubiquitous "Your BIOS is not fully ACPI compliant message." This is actualy an improvement: at first windows load would just crash and reboot the system without a message.

 

[grooge]

I would just give up on that board. I won't get any Asus with nforce4. They screwed their design. Maybe you could try the new Asus with ATI chipset. at least, it seem that they figured out how to make this chipset to work.

I sold my nforce4 mobo, and went with the Asrock 939 dual.. no regret..

 

[Cisco2]

Originally posted by: grooge
I would just give up on that board. I won't get any Asus with nforce4. They screwed their design. Maybe you could try the new Asus with ATI chipset. at least, it seem that they figured out how to make this chipset to work.

I sold my nforce4 mobo, and went with the Asrock 939 dual.. no regret..

Nah.. it's too god to give up on--I'd give up RAID 0 before I do that.

I just saw a post by someone who had his board come with BIOS 903--just a matter of days (hours?) before the next release BIOS is up for DL...onwards and upwards.

This MB WILL do what I want it to do...sooner or later

 

[Cisco2]

Just flashed the new BIOS, 903, and it works.

A single WD2500KS in SATA 1 not in RAID...a pair of WD800JB IDE with SATA adapters in SATA 3 & 4 in a RAID 0 array and it works like a charm...cold booting, warm booting, etc... funny thing is that both in PCMark '05 and HDtach the tested performance of the two old drives in RAID 0 and the new SATA II drive by itself is almost identical.

You can almost say SATA I + RAID 0 = SATA II, lol...anyway, 1 bug down, 1 or 2 to go. Not bad at all for a 1 month old MB if you ask me.

 

[Cisco2]

Originally posted by: grooge
First, when the controller is set as RAID, it is normal that the drives dissapear from the BIOS drive list. They are now taken in charge by the nvraid BIOS" Nothing to worry there

Perhaps there was nothing to worry about...perhaps the low level individual HD detection by the BIOS of HDs in an array is just cosmetic...but with the release BIOS 903, low-level individual HD detection is back just as I have always seen it before.

2 HDs in a RAID 0 array are first detected individualy and after that the nVidia RAID kicks in and confirms the healthy stripe. This method continues with the latest BIOS release (1009.)

The stripe has been performing flawlessly for 2 weeks now, and the 3rd SATA HD continues in individual non-raid mode.