Asus A7V8X / Radeon 9700 AGP 8X No Boot Issue Explained?

[Technonut]

Just read this at HardOCP:

In certain cases, after installing the RADEON 9700 PRO 128MB in an AGP 8x capable motherboard, the system will not post, or boot up.

This is one of the things that comes with being first to market with new technology and you guys need to be aware of it. The Asus KT400 is the only board we have found so far that it does not work with.

Our buddies over at Asus had their two cents to add as well...

The problem is caused by a combination of power supply and motherboard +5V voltage ramp curves creating a situation where certain process corners in the ASIC will intermittently return an incorrect value for the ASIC ID after a cold boot. Fix:

* Short-term solution is diligent screening prior to shipping.
* Long-term there are 2 options:

1. A modification to the motherboard BIOS (system BIOS) to create an extra read of the ASIC ID, the return value of which is ignored. The second read of the ASIC ID will then return the correct value

2. A board modification to monitor the read of the ASIC ID using programmable logic which will generate a NAK command back to the Northbridge controller while allowing the Radeon 9700 Pro to act as if the read command were executed successfully in order to cause the Northbridge to reissue the read command.

 

[Technonut]

Bump.. I think that this is interesting considering that this appears to be a mobo issue confirmed by ASUS.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Hmmm...maybe ATi isn't so evil and stupid after all

 

[First]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Hmmm...maybe ATi isn't so evil and stupid after all

It's already been confirmed by ATi that a new stepping of the 9700 core was necessary for seamless AGP 8X operation.

We'll have more coverage on this situation in an upcoming review...

 

[Technonut]

It's already been confirmed by ATi that a new stepping of the 9700 core was necessary for seamless AGP 8X operation. We'll have more coverage in an upcoming review...

Was this confirmed by ATI directly to AnandTech? If not, do you have a link? I read a post somewhere stating that the majority of the retail 9700's shipped out already were fitted with the core revision, and very few of the original stepping actually made it into retail channels. It has all been very confusing to the consumer. ASUS making the above statement just adds to the confusion.

EDIT: Here is one post from the Rage3D 9700 Forum:

I don't know what they are talking about in that article, but every single R300 shipped out is an A13 stepping -- There is only one chip shipped to customers, reviewers, etc... Please, don't damage your boards by removing the heatsink. That is not covered by warranty. Certainly feel free to run any chip ID program you want, if you don't believe me.
AE2 is not known to me, but it might of been an engineering sample stepping 2 -- Those did occur, back a few months, but very few were produced (a few hundred) and they only made it into demo or engineering sample boards.

 

[dszd0g]

This issue is relevant to me, because I just purchased an Asus A7V8X and a Radeon 9700 (before I was aware of this issue). I will be building the system this weekend.

Here are a couple relevent threads on the Rage3d forum. It appears that some people are running an Asus A7V8X with out any problems, while others are having tons of problems. It is unclear to me whether the issue is specific to certain Radeon 9700 cards, and whether the Asus 1006 final BIOS fixes the issue.

RADEON 9700 PRO 128MB - System POST related issues on AGP 8x motherboards
Anyone have an ASUS A7V8X MB?
9700 Has 8X AGP Issue AND ATI FIX
Asus & Bios Fix (P4S8X)

The issue is quite definitely not Asus specific. From what I have seen every single 8X motherboard is encountering this issue. ATI is claiming it is a problem on their end and Asus is claiming it is a problem on their end. That is very good for us users. It may be the case that this problem was caused by a mistake on both sides that either side could have avoided and both sides are fixing.

Unfortunately, ATI has said that they will not have a software fix. They are talking about the first replacement board shipment being available 9/23.

One user who has been having a ton of problems with his Radeon 9700 Pro still is having problems with the 1006 Final in 3D modes.
One user fixed all their lockup problems in 3D modes on a P4S8X by changing the refresh rate to 85Hz.

 

[Technonut]

The issue is quite definitely not Asus specific. From what I have seen every single 8X motherboard is encountering this issue. ATI is claiming it is a problem on their end and Asus is claiming it is a problem on their end. That is very good for us users. It may be the case that this problem was caused by a mistake on both sides that either side could have avoided and both sides are fixing.

Just one post from the 29th page of one of the threads at Rage 3D:

I had the ASUS P4S8X (until I RMA'ed it) and the Built by ATI retail 9700 Pro (until I sold it on ebay) and my PC would crash almost everytime running 3dmark2001se. I tried everything in this thread. I even replaced the PS with no luck. The last thing I did before boxing everything up was to put my Ti4600 in the P4S8X. Guess what? It crashed in game 5 of 3dmark2001se! The exact same place my 9700 pro was crashing! I took this to mean it was probably a mobo problem and not a problem with the 9700 Pro. Anyway, I got feed up and now I'm waiting for ATI to sell through their first shipment of cards so I can pick me up another one. The 9700 Pro is just too fast to go back to a Ti4600. BTW, I replaced the P4S8X with a ASUS P4T533-C and 512MB of PC1066 RDRAM.

Another:

It's odd that you guys who have tried the 1003A bios are still having problems, as the release notes for the 1003A bios says: 1. Serial ATA ROM updated 376.bin(016).
2. Patch ATI AGP 8X.
3. Support Intel Pentium 4 2.8Ghz CPU.

Another:

BIG TIME!!! That's why I just spent the last 45 minutes taking my 2.8GHZ P4 and P4S8X out of my case and reinstalling my 2000+ and Epox 8K3A+. Gonna send them back for sure now. I'll wait until we get some "stable" motherboards that support DDR400/8X AGP (the latter is not as important as the DDR400). This has proven to me that the problem doesn't lie in the 9700, but in those chipsets questioned. I had the same problems with every AGP card I threw in: Voodoo3 3000 AGP, 9700 Pro (2 different cards with 1.0 BIOS and 1.1 BIOS revision), Radeon 8500 128MB, Radeon 64MB VIVO, and FireGL 8700. What more proof do I need that my 9700 is not the problem? And I've ruled out power because my PSU is ROCK SOLID in my 2000+ system (which probably pulls much more power than the P4 dad). I think the memory controller on the board has some serious issues.

Yet another:

I am just done my system for new ABIT AT7max2, Everything from begining is errorless, I also did the benchmark of UT2003 DEMO for 800x600, 1024x768....no lock up...very smooth. Really don't see any problem...What I would like to suggest is that you don't have to get the DDR400 RAM, just get the very good DDR333 (I use apacer DDR333, samsung c-tcb3 chip)
I use very aggresive ram setting(ultra) in the bios, and now I am oc my AGOIA 0213 1600+ @ 2200 default v-core, ram is running @ 2-2-2-5-1

And one more.... (I could go on)

I just put together an XP2000,GA-7VAX&Radeon 9700 Pro everythings working just fine. (knocks on wood) No 3-D issues so far looped 3-D mark for an hour and played Everquest for 2.
Bios is at 8x agp both 3-D mark and Sisoft Sandra confirm 8x agp
Radeon's bios version 8.003
bios part# 11394 296 101
bios information 113-94206-101
GA-7VAX revision 1.1

EDIT: I will have an ABIT AT7Max2 arriving today, and will post back with my results using the 9700 Pro.

Unfortunately, ATI has said that they will not have a software fix. They are talking about the first replacement board shipment being available 9/23.

I have yet to see any official statement from ATi regarding replacement cards on the 23rd.

 

[kyoshozx]

Well later on today I shall be receiving my Asus A7V8X and I currently have a Radeon 9700. I'll post my experience later on to see if I have any compatibility problems with the Radeon 9700

 

[Technonut]

I installed the 9700 in the AT7 Max2 with a cheap 300W PSU, and the board booted right up. I still am in the process of testing, but did run 3 loops of the 3DMark2001 SE benchmark with no lockups. I will post a thread in the Motherboard Forum when my testing is further along.