ASUS A7V333 Revision 1.02 vs. 1.04 ???

[Bleser]

I have built three computers with the ASUS A7V333, and all of them have been rock stable and great setups. The first one I built was revision 1.02, the second 1.04, and the third 1.02. All were Athlon 2000+ computers with BIOS 1011 and the exact same case and cooling setups. Now here is my question....

With ASUS' PC Probe, I am able to monitor the CPU, motherboard, and other temperatures / voltages while in Windows. With revision 1.02, the CPU temp is around 51-52 degress celsius at idle or Internet browsing, and up to 57 degrees after long hours of Battlefield 1942 (best game on earth) or other games. Now, with the EXACT SAME COOLING SETUP, components, and environment and revision 1.04 of the board, the CPU idles around 39 degrees celsius and a maximum of 43 degrees after hours of game play. What the heck????

Like I mentioned before, all three boards used the 1011 BIOS revision and the exact same setups, yet differ in CPU temps by as much as 12 degrees celsius!! All three computers are rock hard stable, so it's not like one CPU cooler is on "better' than another. Is it possible that rev 1.04 records the temperature unerneith the CPU and does not use the internal thermal diode, and rev 1.02 does use the internal diode? I call ASUS and they were of no help. This is just a question that I have wanted answered for some time now.

Does anyone know the differences here?

 

[mechBgon]

Could you try a little experiment for us? Get a program that stresses the CPU and raises its temperature, and start it while watching the response time in Asus Probe. If the temperature jumps almost instantly (within 5 seconds) on the Rev. 1.04 board, it may be showing an internal- diode temperature instead of a socket-thermistor temperature. Just a hunch.

I have an A7V333-R which is in for RMA (bad BIOS flash... remind me never to use Asus' Windows flash utility again

). Before attempting to update to the 1011 BIOS, I was running Motherboard Monitor 5.2 on it, which can read the CPU's internal diode through the special Asus monitoring chip. The very strange thing is that the internal- diode reading was MUCH lower than the socket-thermistor reading! The response time to a load was nearly instantaneous, so I'm pretty sure it was reading from the CPU's diode. The readings were in the area that you're reporting for the 1.04 board.

edit: another thought: are all three boards running the same version of Asus Probe?

 

[Bleser]

Thanks for the tips. I will try what you said, but unfortunatley I lost the 1.04 board to a screwdrive slip while removing a heatsink! I'll let you know what I find out though, and let me know what you find out!

Thanks!

 

[randomboy]

I just got my a7v333 running today, and I too am getting some awful strange things from the Asus probe as well as MBM5.2. With a Duron 750 oc'ed to 860, my idle temp is 51C. When I use the supposed CPU diode sensor in MBM, I get a reading of NEGATIVE 46C, while using "Asus 2" sensor, I get a reading of 51C. My "Asus 3" sensor is indicating mobo temp, and I'm gettin 39C.

But the wierd part, is that the mobo and cpu temp will jump to 104C and 122C respectively. Its only for a split second, so I know its not the actual temp, but I'm wondering whats causing the weirdness in the sensors. And according to the MBM high/low, my CPU and mobo both reached an all time low of -70C..........

This is with BIOS 1008, think a flash to 1011 or 1012 is in order??

Sorry for jumpin in on the thread, I'm just getting some wierd temp issues with this board as well

Jeff

 

[mechBgon]

NEGATIVE 46C! :Q Darn it, I wish Asus would get it together. If they'd just add a jumper to switch between socket-thermistor and CPU-diode readings, and leave it at socket-thermistor when they ship it, that would be the perfect solution IMO. CPU readings a la mode.

 

[kyoshozx]

I just upgraded my bios to 1012 and my temps so far seem to be a bit lower than what it was before.

 

[IRJack]

Randomboy, there is no cpu diode on a duron 750, trying to read it is probably hosing your readings up.

I thought that you couldn't see the cpu diode temp reading on an A7V333?!? mechBgon, did you have a chance to try your "cooling the back of the mobo" trick to test and see if mobo monitor is actually reading the cpu diode before you rma'd the board? I may try it tonite if not.

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: IRJack
Randomboy, there is no cpu diode on a duron 750, trying to read it is probably hosing your readings up.

I thought that you couldn't see the cpu diode temp reading on an A7V333?!? mechBgon, did you have a chance to try your "cooling the back of the mobo" trick to test and see if mobo monitor is actually reading the cpu diode before you rma'd the board? I may try it tonite if not.

Thanks to a tip from Mikewarrior2, I found out that MBM 5.2 can sneak a reading off of the Asus C.O.P. monitoring chip, so I tried it. The results were so strange I didn't believe them... CPU internal diode reads in the 38-43C area, while socket thermistor is up in the 55-58C area?! I thought perhaps an update from 1007 to 1011 BIOS would help, so I tried it, but this time the BIOS flash failed :| So my board is on the way to Asus and I'll probably get it back in about two or three weeks.

It is the same board I did the ice-pack experiment with. The MBM 5.2 internal-diode readings jump almost instantly when I apply load to the CPU, so I'm fairly sure they are internal readings, but the low temperature and small swing from idle to loaded makes me think they're inaccurate.

 

[IRJack]

Interesting. I flashed my bios from 1007 up to 1012 and found that the asus probe temp reading dropped substantially - it was showing idle about 51C with 1007, and now 42-43C idle with 1012. I wonder if this is true or if asus caved in and listened to all the people screaming about high temps?

Anyway, after installed Motherboard Monitor 5.2, the supposed reading from the cpu diode was 46C idle. This is an XP1600+ with an AX-7 and 39.5cfm Sunon. Both mobo mon and asus probe reported the board temp at 28C. Asus probe reported 28C before and after the flash. I messed up and didn't check mobo mon before the flash.

I ran a few tests with Q3A and Sisoft Sandra burn-in stress test. Q3A would push temps into the lower 50s with 28C board. Sandra multimedia burn-in looped about 50 times and pushed as high as 55C with 28C board. Cpu utilization was 90+ at all times. Quitting burn-in test would drop the cpu temp immediately from 55 to 50-51 then slowly back down to about 46-47C. These are motherboard monitor numbers - I didn't include asus probe because it doesn't seem to play well with mobo mon.

I'm not convinced these numbers come from the cpu diode. As mechBgon pointed out, these are pretty low. I may have to borrow a can of freezing spray and try spraying the board during operation. That will probably be more revealing.

mechBgon - sorry to hear about your board. I went through the same thing with the windows bios update about a week after I got my a7v333. It took 1.5 - 2 weeks to get the board back. Did you get the "System failed CPU test" message from the post reporter or just dead? This time I used the Alt-F2 EZ-Flash util and had no probs.
Windoze flash util = Bad idea.

 

[mechBgon]

Yep, "system fail CPU test!" was coming from the reporter Glad to hear the EZ Flash worked, I'll try that next time. I've flashed successfully with the Windows utility before. This time, instead of customizing the boot logo using MyLogo, then saving it, then flashing it, I tried to use Asus Update to do both steps together, and that might have been the problem (although if it doesn't work, that is Asus' fault). I also left both of the checkboxes checked (Clear DMI and whatever the other one was), which I don't think I've done in the past. But I'd be foolish to try it again. Trick me once, shame on you; trick me twice... :|

 

[randomboy]

Just seeing if there were any updates to any of this, I'm still contemplating going from BIOS 1008 up to 1011, even though I"m having no problems with 1008, or is it best to have the most updated BIOS??

jeff

 

[eeut]

My rev.1.02 used bios 1011 no change but, temp sure was lowered to 3c, others reported a drop of 7c-10c w/c is getting very wierd probably in rev.1.04 which you have noticed. For bios 1012, a promise support for upcoming xp2400+, xp2600+ so they say, w/c I am using now.

 

[IRJack]

Finally have some results for you guys. Bottom line - Motherboard Monitor 5.2 DOES use the ondie CPU temp sensor - Asus Probe v2.17.02?? still uses the motherboard socket thermistor.

This experiment is basically the same one carried out by mechBgon a few months ago.

I started out with asus probe running. It showed the cpu temp to be 39C with 26-27C board. I popped the right cover off my tower and had access to the back of the mobo through the mobo tray. With a couple of quick sprays from Chemtronics Freeze-It freezing spray (aka Technician-in-a-can) to the backside of the board under the socket, the CPU temp dropped from 39C to 3C immediately. It then slowly raised through the 10s, 20s, back into the 30s. This confirms that Asus Probe is using the mobo thermistor, otherwise there would have been little response in temp change.

I then quit Asus Probe and started Motherboard Monitor - these two really screw each other up if running at the same time, at least for me. Mobo Mon reported the ondie temp to be 44C with 26-27C board. So I gave the backside of the board a few sprays for Freeze-It - no temp change. So I hosed the area of the board under the socket with a good dose of Freeze-It. The CPU temp DID NOT CHANGE. This should be what happens when you take readings from the ondie CPU thermistor. WOOHOO!

Now the question - How accurate is the ondie thermistor reading we're receiving? 44-47C idle temp on my XP1600+ seems a little low after seeing Asus Probe numbers in the 50s - I believe a lot people with the Epox board that uses the ondie thermistor were reporting temps into the 60s and 70s. But, yeah, it's all relative to case temp, application of the hsf, dust on the hsf, phase of the moon, etc.

Anyone have an independent thermocouple to test this out?

 

[IRJack]

Almost forgot...

Does anyone know what the other sensor available to Motherboard Monitor is?
Asus 1 = Motherboard temp
Asus 4 = Ondie temp
Asus 3 = CUL2 mobo (if I remember correctly)
Asus 2 = ????

My "Asus 2" temp is reporting 15C. Sounds bogus since my room runs in the 75F (24C) area.

 

[randomboy]

Originally posted by: IRJack
Almost forgot...

Does anyone know what the other sensor available to Motherboard Monitor is?
Asus 1 = Motherboard temp
Asus 4 = Ondie temp
Asus 3 = CUL2 mobo (if I remember correctly)
Asus 2 = ????

My "Asus 2" temp is reporting 15C. Sounds bogus since my room runs in the 75F (24C) area.

Thats funny....my Asus 3 is the sensor that is reporting 15C CONSTANTLY as well.

I'm not sure what is what for the sensors, here are my readings:

Asus 1 = 36C, up to 38-39 under load
Asus 2(CUSL2) = 58C, up to 63C under load
Asus 3 = 15C CONSTANTLY
Asus 4(CPU diode) = 43C, up to 51-52C under load....

I'm not sure which revision mobo I have, about to change a few fans, so I'll have my case open and look

Jeff

 

[IRJack]

Here are my current readings:

Mobo - Asus 1 - 28C
CUSL2 - Asus 2 - 55C
????? - Asus 3 - 15C
CPU - Asus 4 - 46-47C

I believe the Asus 3 sensor is garbage. I just got through playing Q3A for about 30-45 minutes,and Asus 3 was still 15C when I quit. I haven't seen it change at all, has anyone?

I just ran some quick Sandra benches (arithmetic and multimedia), and the cpu jumped to 49C, CUSL2 went from 55 to 56C. I wonder what the hell this reading is???

edit: Ah, CUSL2 is an 815 mobo. CUSL2 The reading is probably meaningless on an A7V333.

 

[mechBgon]

Thanks for the info IRJack! Yeah, I can't help but wonder at the low temps being reported, since they are evidently CPU-diode readings. I was expecting to see the temps the EPoX owners were seeing too. Granted, those readings do fall into the area that Pentium4's report from their onboard diodes. Mysterious...

 

[randomboy]

I got the rundown from SWScorch on the A7V, pretty much the same as IR's, but a little different.

Here are my readings at idle:

Asus 1- Mobo- 36C
Asus 2- none
Asus 2 CUSL2- CPU diode- 57C
Asus 3- ????- 15C ALWAYS
Asus 4 Cpu diode- SOCKET thermistor (hence its reading 10-20C lower than the die temp)- 41C

Hows that look to you guys?

Jeff

 

[IRJack]

Do you believe that the CUSL2 reading may be closer to the CPU temp? Just wondering since you put that down for the CPU diode. It is closer to the temp that I was expecting, but it doesn't seem to flutuate as much for me when going from load-idle and vice-versa. My Asus4 sensor has the largest temp swing and from the experiment I did, it didn't read the socket thermistor.

As far as the low temps being reported, I couldn't really say. If I could borrow a thermal couple and meter from work....

 

[randomboy]

Yes, I was told that the CUSL2 sensor is the true on die sensor, whereas the supposedly CPU diode temp according to MBM is actually the socket reading. It only makes sense to me as well as the CUSL2 sensor is the hottest reading you get, and I dont believe much else gets hotter than the CPU The one thing that makes me wonder tho, as it does you, is that reading just doesnt change all that much, even under load. I think it ranges 5-6C MAX from idle to full load, whereas the "cpu diode" temp (which I do think is just the socket reading) varies 10-12C I think.

Oh yeah, since we are on the subject of the mobo we own, which pins to connect for HDD LED activity?? I got the power LED working fine, I just dont feel like messing around and trying to find the correct pins on my own.

Jeff

 

[IRJack]

The ide header is a two pin header above the AFPanel header on the lower right side of the board, just below your h/w monitor chip. They didn't make it very obvious in the docs - at least on the chasis sticker (which I do like; nice not to have to flip open the manual).

About the Asus sensor in Motherboard Monitor: I don't believe the Asus 4 sensor is the socket thermistor, since the temp did not fluctuate when I hit the board with freezing spray. When using asus probe (which does read the socket thermistor), the temp dropped substantially when I sprayed the board (see the results above).
I'm not saying that the Asus 4 ondie temp sensor IS the ondie temp for sure, but it definitely is not the socket thermistor. It would not be a surprise if it was an "altered" ondie temp. Something like the true on die temp - 10C or something. It also could be possible that Asus' setup to monitor the ondie thermistor is not very accurate.
The best way to test this would be to have an accurate independent thermocouple reading (ie something not attached to the mainboard).
Any volunteers?

edit: New info. I just put a fan behind my motherboard pointed at the back of the cpu socket to reverify what I saw last week, but this time I also monitored the CUSL2 sensor. The cpu diode showed no change, BUT the CUSL2 sensor dropped from 51C to 47C, all other temps remained constant. Just to check, I exited mobo mon, and started asus probe. Asus probe showed the cpu temp at 39C to begin with, then after I applied the fan it dropped to 35C.
After that, it looks like the CUSL2 sensor may be reading the socket thermistor instead of the cpu diode. Can one of you guys give this a shot to verify my results??? By the way , my board is a rev 1.02 - which may or may not make a difference.

 

[microAmp]

MBM website On the left, look for the ASUS click on the link and it'll give all the ASUS boards find the A7V333 and it'll tell you what is what.

 

[IRJack]

Thanks for pointing that out, motoamd.

Now if we only knew if the diode reading was accurate....

 

[randomboy]

Just came back to look at this post, see if anything new came up

After looking at some Sandra #'s, I've determined that Asus 3 is "Power/Auxiliary Temperature". If you open up Sandra, and open up Mainboard Information, its in with the temp info there with the CPU and board temp.

Jeff