Asus A7N8X MBoard - Want to Upgrade Processor -- Suggestions

[ricwhite]

I have a Asus A7N8X Deluxe Motherboard and would like to upgrade from my AMD 2100+ processor to boost performance slightly. Just wondered what the highest processor available for that motherboard would be. Also, considering price, which processor upgrade would you recommend.

There is a AMD Athlon 2900+ available at microcenter for $79. Do you feel that is a good cheap upgrade that would be worth it?

I am not due for a major computer overhaul for another 2 years, so I'm just trying to do SLIGHT upgrades to my current system. I have purchased more memory and am now trying to boost processing performance. Since I am a rather novice computer person, I would appreciate any easy processor performance boosting suggestions for my current motherboard. I am not interested in replacing the motherboard and processor (and, thus, the operating system) and all of that right now. I just want to easily pop in a upgraded processor.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Assimilator1]

The XP 2900 (Barton,200FSB,2GHz) is quite a reasonable chip but your mbrd may have problems running it.

You see unless you have a Rev 2.0 A7N8X version then its pot luck as to whether your mbrd will run at 200MHz FSB (don't believe the Asus site saying it will support 200MHz FSB!) ,my v1.06 doesn't ,maxes out at about 185MHz.This is common with these.
You could end underclocking the CPU & then it would only be a bit faster than your current CPU.

Your best bet if you can find one for a decent price is to get an XPM 2500 or 2600 (M=Mobile) ,these will run at whatever FSB you want as the multipliers are unlocked.
Also they overclock like hell! .The only slight snag with the XPM in these mbrds is that you will need to do a simple CPU pin linking trick to give you the higher multipliers you'd probably (definitly with 166MHz FSB) need (over x12.5).

The alternative would be to get an XP 3000 (333FSB variant only) ,but they don't overclock as well as the XPMs ,you wouldn't have to mess about though.

Unfortunatly I can't help you with prices as I'm in the UK

Oh btw ,I've got an XPM 2500 @2.51GHz (179FSB) @1.66v on my A7N8X

 

[Assimilator1]

Forgot to say ,you didn't mention what RAM you have.

Naturally if you're going to run at 166MHz (333) FSB then you'll need at least DDR333/PC2700.DDR 400 for 200MHz FSB.
Before you think it ,despite the bios settings ,you can't run your RAM speed below the FSB ,it won't boot.At least it didn't on mine & a few others I've heard about.
Of course its easy enough for you to test that out

 

[imported_Kiwi]

It is considered very bad form to cross-post. Your original (I presume it's the original) message in the motherboards forum is the only one that is in order. Ask the moderator to kill this one (in "Forum Issures").

 

[ricwhite]

Originally posted by: Assimilator1
Forgot to say ,you didn't mention what RAM you have.

Naturally if you're going to run at 166MHz (333) FSB then you'll need at least DDR333/PC2700.DDR 400 for 200MHz FSB.
Before you think it ,despite the bios settings ,you can't run your RAM speed below the FSB ,it won't boot.At least it didn't on mine & a few others I've heard about.
Of course its easy enough for you to test that out

Thanks for your helpful information. I am running DDR 400 (PC3200) RAM. I just bought 2gb more Mushkin PC3200. My Motherboard is an Asus A7N8X version 1.XX -- which means I don't have a 2.0 version. But I'm still don't understand why my MB will max out at 1.85ghz with the 2900+, but with other processors it will go beyond that.

 

[ricwhite]

Originally posted by: Kiwi
It is considered very bad form to cross-post. Your original (I presume it's the original) message in the motherboards forum is the only one that is in order. Ask the moderator to kill this one (in "Forum Issures").

Sorry about that. Kind-of new here. I posted in the motherboard forum and then realized that this might be better answered in the "processor" area since I'm asking for a processor recommendation. However, to make a recommendation, a knowledge of the motherboard I have is essential. So, I'm really confused.

 

[Captante]

I've had my hands on at least a dozen A7N8X deluxe Motherboards & every one of them ran a 400mhz fsb without any issues at all, so I'd be surprised if you have any problems there as long as your RAM is up to it... $79 for the 2900+ is a pretty good deal & you'll see a large & noticable increase in overall system performance, but your OC'ing milage may vary. The fastest stock AXP is the 3200+ which runs at 2.2ghz on a 400fsb and many of them are multiplier-unlocked making overclocking much easier, but they tend to be more expensive then buying a low end A64/Skt 939 motherboard combination.

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

MY A7N8X Deluxe Rev. 2 is perfectly stable at 200MHz, won't post at 201 or anything above it though. Darndest thing.

The highest officially supported processor is the Athlon XP 3200. There is a BIOS update (for rev. 2 boards) if you want to use a Sempron though.

I'd just recommend a mobile AXP.

 

[Assimilator1]

Yes the Rev 2 had no problems with 200FSB ,I said Rev 1.xx
Wierd about the 201 limit though!

Captante
Any Athlon XP made after week 39 2003 are multiplier locked ,including the XP3200.
I assume the A7N8X's you tried were rev 2 mbrds? if not you were damn lucky they all did 200FSB .It's a fairly well documented problem with the rev 1.xx mbrds that many (but not all) won't do 200FSB.

ricwhite
XP2900 = 10x200FSB = 2GHz ,however if you were only able to do 185FSB for example then ,10x185=1.85GHz

XP3000(333FSB) = 13x166 DDR = 2.16GHz.
You'll have no problems hitting full speed with that CPU as you will definitley be able to do 166MHz FSB.
Btw incased you hadn't guessed ,166MHzDDR is equivalent of 333MHz ,200DDR=400

Unless you have an unlocked CPU on which you can test out your mbrds FSB limit I would avoid any 400 FSB XPs as the chance is high that your mbrd won't do 200MHz.
In which case you'll want an XP2800 or an XP3000(333FSB) ,assuming that you can get one for less than the cost of a S754 mbrd & Sempron CPU (don't be so frightened of a Win re-install ).
Overall though the XP mobiles are a better choice still for your mbrd,again only for the right price & if you don't mind a little pin linking (its fairly easy).
If you do have an unlocked CPU we can run you through the prodecure for testing your mbrds FSB limit.

 

[Fern]

Look for a mobile XP and due as Assimilator1 says. Whatever FSB your mobo will reach can be used with the mobile. And if it's only 166/333 just crank up the multi on the mobile.

Fern

 

[ricwhite]

Thanks for the information. Since I'm not familiar with the XP mobile processors, I'll do a little research. Since I am fairly ignorant about FSBs and multipliers, etc, I'm not that up on what the different processors will do on my particular motherboard. I will trust what you said about a possible problem with using the XP 2900+ on my A7N8X version 1.xx MB -- which may be limiting.

My goal is three fold: 1) Easy 2) Inexpensive 3) Significant enough processing improvement over my XP 2100+. As of now, I'm talked out of the 2900+ and will see what I can find on an XP mobile. Does anybody have a recommended model number that would be good to search for?

Thanks again for your help.

Edit:

So, is the AMD XP-M 2600+ something that would work well with my MB as shown in this link:
Link to Processor

 

[Assimilator1]

Yep,though that's bloomin expensive!:Q (as far as I can tell)
Can't you find it cheaper elsewhere?

Try searching for the XP-M 2500 too (the 2400 is the same core but they don't seem to have as good overclocking abilities on average )

Some specs to help ya

XP2100 = 13x133 =1.73GHz ,256KB L2 cache
XP3000 = 13x166 =2.16GHz ,512KB L2 cache (this is an educated guess but I'd say this one is about 25-35% faster than your 2100.Seem about right you guys?)

XPM 2600 = 15x133 =2GHz ,512KB L2 cache ,but can be overclocked from about 2.2 - 2.5GHz ,average AFAIK is 2.3-2.4GHz ,its just pot luck how fast it'll go & it depends how good your cooling is too.Also you can choose any CPU multiplier you want (once the pin joining trick has been done) & thus you can choose your optimium FSB.

Btw whichever CPU you go for ,ensure you have a good enough cooler ,an all aluminium one won't be good enough ,even more so if your going to overclock.It'll at least want a copper base/core.

Inccidently ,before you buy an XPM ,have you (or someone you know) got a steady hand & good eyesight or a mag glass? (I ask because that's what you'll need for the pin joining mod )

 

[ricwhite]

Can you explain just briefly what's involved with the "pin linking" to give me an idea if I want to mess with it. Does it require a removal of the MB or can it be done in the case? Also, my understanding is that the XP-Ms run cooler than the XPs. In fact, I would imagine that my XP 2100+ is probably running hotter than the XP-M 2600 will run -- even slightly over-clocked. True?

My problem is finding one of these processors.

The XP 3000+ is selling for $239 at Zipzoomfly or about $150 on ebay. WAY too much for that . . . so that's out.

The XP-M 2600+ I've found for $104.99 at the following site:

Link

Or it is going on ebay for around $100 or slightly more.

I want to stay at $100 or less or it's really not worth it.


BTW. . . on another note. I increased my memory from 1gb to 2.5gb (DDR400), because I noticed my memory maxing out on some games I play. But when I ran 3DMARK2003, I found my score about the same (actually slightly lower). My score with 1gb of memory was 10,315. My score with 2.5gb of memory is 10,239. I found that odd and it confirms my opinion that memory additions really don't improve gaming much.

I also don't anticipate upgrading my processor will do much for my 3DMARK score. Some told me when I bought my ATI X850XT card that it is a waste of money with my current processor (XP 2100). But my 3DMARK score went from 4350 (with my ATI 9700 PRO) to 10,300. It's obvious that the single most significant thing to boost gaming performance is the graphics card (BY FAR).

Some have told me that my processor is bottlenecking and limiting my graphics card -- which is probably true to some degree. But even upgrading to a AMD XP-M 2600+ and overclocking it to maybe 2.2ghz won't improve my 3DMARK score that significantly (I don't believe). What do you think?

Do you think I will be able to squeeze a 12,000 3DMARK2003 score if I upgrade the processor? If I can get to 12,000 on the 3D MARK, I will be happy for a few years until I do a complete computer overhaul. I am close to being satisfied with my computer if I can just inexpensively upgrade my processor.

 

[Assimilator1]

Look at this thread ,it'll give you some info.
You can drop the wire into the holes with the mbrd in situ.

Personally I find a much better method (& easier maybe?) is to use some conductive silver paint & paint the 2 pins together on the CPU using a highly sharpened pencil as a brush.You'll need a mag glass for this though ,but it removes any issues about wire thickness,CPU not sitting quite flat or it dropping out when you remove the CPU.

Yes XPMs run slightly cooler because of their lower default voltage (1.45v vs 1.6-1.65v) ,having said that our mbrds lowest setting is 1.575v & they over volt by 0.05v so 1.575 becomes about 1.62v.Result is they then run at about the same temps .Anyway it doesn't really matter ,they are better quality cores so they tend to overclock better

In fact, I would imagine that my XP 2100+ is probably running hotter than the XP-M 2600 will run -- even slightly over-clocked. True?

If you have a Palomino XP2100 then definitly yes ,if its a T'bred XP2100 then the temps will be very similiar

Re you RAM quantities ,I would guess that 2.5GB is slower because the mbrd sets more relaxed timings to run the RAM stabily.More RAM makes more of a demand on mbrds.

....memory additions really don't improve gaming much.

If you are not running out of RAM & thus not suffering from 'swap filing' then yes that's true.
However if your PC was 'swap filing' then more RAM would make a big improvement.

Whoever said you were wasting your money with a X850 & an XP2100 was somewhat off the mark ,though some games demand more from the CPU than others.
But it is true that an XP 2100 will be holding back your card some what.

Btw don't place too much faith in 3DMark ,yes 3dmark03 is very reliant on the graphics card & not much on the CPU ,but this is not necassarily how games will react.
Some will show a big boost with a faster CPU (actually 3dmark2001se will too).

Some have told me that my processor is bottlenecking and limiting my graphics card -- which is probably true to some degree. But even upgrading to a AMD XP-M 2600+ and overclocking it to maybe 2.2ghz won't improve my 3DMARK score that significantly (I don't believe). What do you think?

Again ,don't worry about the 3mark score ,having a faster CPU then your current one will improve game performance.
Benchmark the games you have before & after the CPU swap to see the difference.

No idea about 12,000 for 3dmark03 ,like I mentioned above ,don't worry about it ,benchmark your games instead.

[edit]I forgot to say,for your interest ,I'm running a Radeon 9700 Pro on this rig & I get about 5300 with 3dmark 03

 

[ricwhite]

Thanks for the information, Assimilator1, I'm learning a lot. I guess the XP-M 2500 or 2600 sounds like the best bet for my MB and for some slight overclocking. I don't want to modify and invest in high end cooling so I guess I have to be conservative. If I can get to 2.2ghz or higher, I'd be happy enough. Now . . . to find a 2600+ that isn't trashed . . . that'll be my challenge.

The unlocking trick with the wire doesn't appear too difficult. I'd be willing to give that a shot.

 

[Assimilator1]

Wierd! ,of course you could then sell the mbrd on to get some money back too

Interesting that its the XPM 2800 ,don't think that changes anything.
Btw some people are saying the HSF is noisey.

Hmmm ,on 2nd thoughts ,I've just looked here & the XPM 2800 (AXMA2800FKT4C DTR mobile,number kindly added by stone_age at nwegg) is not the same quality cores as the XPM 2500/2600
Its def vcore is the same as regualr XPs so it likely won't overclock as well as the XPM 2500/2600s ,it'll still be unlocked though.Also its 'T die' is lower again indicating not as good cores.

 

[ricwhite]

Originally posted by: Assimilator1
Wierd! ,of course you could then sell the mbrd on to get some money back too

Interesting that its the XPM 2800 ,don't think that changes anything.
Btw some people are saying the HSF is noisey.

Hmmm ,on 2nd thoughts ,I've just looked here & the XPM 2800 (AXMA2800FKT4C DTR mobile,number kindly added by stone_age at nwegg) is not the same quality cores as the XPM 2500/2600
Its def vcore is the same as regualr XPs so it likely won't overclock as well as the XPM 2500/2600s ,it'll still be unlocked though.Also its 'T die' is lower again indicating not as good cores.

Yeah . . . everything I read seems to indicate that the 2500 or 2600 is much better than the 2800. I think I might just pull the trigger on the 2600 in the link below.

Link

 

[Assimilator1]

Ahh no! ,another DTR (DeskTop Replacement) CPU ,look at the vcore & the part number.

The decent XPMs have a 1.45vcore ,they seem to be scarce!

 

[ricwhite]

So . . . not all AMD Athlon XP-M 2600+s are the same. . . Well, that complicates things. I'll keep searching. I guess I want the one with the part number: AXMG2600FQQ4C.

 

[imported_Sincity]

Or if you live near a FRY's you can get a Sempron 3100+ Socket 754 with Mobo for around $90. You could use your existing AGP video card.

Edit: Opps sorry.....just read again you do not want to swap out mobo/CPU. Well...for $10 more that is somethign to think about. Or, if you can find those "Legendary" 1700+ that can OC 166 x 12. I forget what stepping they were. I have one that I am running for 3 years at 166 x 12. I just recently switched to 200 x 10 when I bought PC3200 memory.

 

[Assimilator1]

Yea if he could find someone whose selling an XP1700 that'll do 2.2GHz (rareish) that would be worth it ,not sure if it would be for one that does 2GHz though.

ricwhite
IQYHA is another stepping to look out for ,but really I wouldn't worry too much about that ,you really want to look out for XPMs that have a 1.45v vcore & 45w heat output rating.

Good luck in your search ,I think you may have left it about a month too late to get what you want.I noticed a couple of overclocker shops in the UK ran out last month & don't have them listed anymore.
If you can't find a 1.45v version then the other XPMs will still be a decent upgrade for you ,it just won't overclock as well.