ASUS A7N8X Freezing / Best Replacement?

[Maric]

Anyways just recently the last few months my computer has been freezing sporadically during light computer use. It would do it every so often maybe like once a week so I kind of just ignored it. However now it's been freezing almost once or twice a day. After it freezes it sometimes doesn't even want to boot up. It won't even take me to the MOBO startup. However after several power ups it will eventually and randomly boot up again. I noticed today when it froze I could kind of hear the the loud power supply fan sputtering out. I don't know if its because it was freezing or it might the cause of my problem.

I am guessing 3 problems either the MOBO is giving out, my power supply, or my CPU. What do you guys think? Also what is the best way to test to see what is the culprit? I don't really have any extra parts to test out on another rig. If I have to replace the MOBO how do I find one that is still going to be compatible with my RAM, CPU, and video card?

Update. Alright it freezing even more so on me and when I try booting the pc and it I can hear all the hardware running however it doesn't make the beeping sound and my monitor just stays blank. I did finaly get it to boot to make this post. So what part do you think I should order? If I have to replace the MOBO how do I find one that is still going to be compatible with my RAM, CPU, and video card?

 

[brencat]

Maric, I personally think your PSU is dying. Please open the case, and give us the make, total wattage, and Amps values of the +3.3v, +5v, and +12v rails on your PSU. You'll find this information on the sticker.

Next, tell us everything you have running in your system (amount of RAM, # of HDDs, opticals, # fans). Also, is the system overclocked and to what setting?

I have the same mobo as you.

 

[Maric]

AMD Athlon XP 2700+ Thoroughbred 2.167GHz Socket A
4 80mm Fans 2 in the front 2 in the back
Thermaltake Silent PurePower W0009R ATX12V 420W Power Supply
HIS Hightech ICE98-2H-ZAM Radeon 9800PRO 128MB DDR AGP 4X/8X Video Card
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS
Crucial 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 400 (PC2 3200)
CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200)
Western Digital Caviar SE WD3200JB 320GB 7200 RPM IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive
2nd HDD 160 GB
Pioneer 16X DVD±R DVD Burner With 5X DVD-RAM Read Black ATAPI Model DVR-111D

This is the exact hardware I have on my PC. Just went back to newegg history.

 

[brencat]

Originally posted by: Maric
AMD Athlon XP 2700+ Thoroughbred 2.167GHz Socket A
4 80mm Fans 2 in the front 2 in the back
Thermaltake Silent PurePower W0009R ATX12V 420W Power Supply
HIS Hightech ICE98-2H-ZAM Radeon 9800PRO 128MB DDR AGP 4X/8X Video Card
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS
Crucial 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 400 (PC2 3200)
CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200)
Western Digital Caviar SE WD3200JB 320GB 7200 RPM IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive
2nd HDD 160 GB
Pioneer 16X DVD±R DVD Burner With 5X DVD-RAM Read Black ATAPI Model DVR-111D

Maric look at what i've bolded above. I doubt very much if you are using DDR2 -- considering this board only takes DDR. No way that stick fits since DDR and DDR2 use different voltages. Please double check that and report back.

Secondly, you should know that the A7N8X was extremely picky about RAM -- particularly the combos used. In addition, very few people ever got more than 1 x 1gb stick to work in this board at a time. You appear to be trying 2 x 1gb. In my case, I am using 1 x 1gb + 2 x 512mb to get to 2gb, dual channel.

Lastly, what was the last thing you changed in your PC and how long ago was that?

 

[brencat]

Maric, I just did a google search on your PSU. After looking at the specs, I am even more confident the problem is most likely your PSU. When I asked you about the Amps ratings on the rails, i was talking about these:

+3.3V: 30A
+5V: 40A
+12V: 18A

The 12v rail is your most important rail, and unfortunately you are at the minimum spec for a Socket A system. I'd suggest you borrow a PSU from a friend before you drop any $$ on a new one, but make sure that the one you try has a minimum of 22A on that 12v rail. Note that my Enermax...although it's only 350W, has 26A available on the 12v rail. Another thing -- you have an older Socket A system so make sure you use a PSU with a single-12v rail. Many of the newer PSUs today use dual or multi-12v rails but have much weaker 3.3v and 5v rails which you still need.

 

[Maric]

Originally posted by: brencat
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Maric
AMD Athlon XP 2700+ Thoroughbred 2.167GHz Socket A
4 80mm Fans 2 in the front 2 in the back
Thermaltake Silent PurePower W0009R ATX12V 420W Power Supply
HIS Hightech ICE98-2H-ZAM Radeon 9800PRO 128MB DDR AGP 4X/8X Video Card
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS
Crucial 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 400 (PC2 3200)
CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200)
Western Digital Caviar SE WD3200JB 320GB 7200 RPM IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive
2nd HDD 160 GB
Pioneer 16X DVD±R DVD Burner With 5X DVD-RAM Read Black ATAPI Model DVR-111D
</end quote></div>

Maric look at what i've bolded above. I doubt very much if you are using DDR2 -- considering this board only takes DDR. No way that stick fits since DDR and DDR2 use different voltages. Please double check that and report back.

Secondly, you should know that the A7N8X was extremely picky about RAM -- particularly the combos used. In addition, very few people ever got more than 1 x 1gb stick to work in this board at a time. You appear to be trying 2 x 1gb. In my case, I am using 1 x 1gb + 2 x 512mb to get to 2gb, dual channel.

Lastly, what was the last thing you changed in your PC and how long ago was that?

Do you think this PSU would do well with my desktop?

http://www.xpcgear.com/en431watpows.html

Update:
I just went ahead and order it. Also yeah I messed up I do have 2 x 512 and I believe 1x 1000 of ram. I highly doubt it is the ram since when it freezes it doesn't want to post the MOBO startup. Usually with bad ram the MOBO would at least power up to the startup screen right? At least that is what I am assuming. I think my last upgrade was probably my video card and then I bought an LG widescreen LCD 20.1 monitor. That is about it.

 

[o1die]

Sometimes the ram fails completely, showing the symptoms of a bad board. I would test each stick one at a time using memtest before spending any more money. Many brands of ram carry lifetime warranty. I've sent mine in twice to the same vender, and it was replaced free. I would start looking for the memory receipt in case you need it.

 

[brencat]

Originally posted by: Maric
Do you think this PSU would do well with my desktop?

http://www.xpcgear.com/en431watpows.html

Update:
I just went ahead and order it.

Excellent choice Maric. That's a bit more money than I think you needed to spend, but you'll also be able to transfer that PSU to a Socket 939 system you might have laying around too. FYI, the PSU you just bought is reviewed here:

http://www.cluboverclocker.com...ermax/eg465p-ve/p2.htm

One more thing...xpcgear's information related to this item is wrong. They were noting 38-44-20 for the 3.3v, 5v, and 12v rails respectively, when in fact if you look at the review site I just mentioned, the rail Amps should be 35-35-33. Again...the most important being that last number (33) referring to the 12v Amps.

Good luck - let us know how you make out after install.

 

[Maric]

Hey guys I finally got my new PSU and I am sorry to say it didn't fix the problem. Forty-five minutes with the new PSU while doing some light internet surfing it froze again. So what I did is I took out the 2 RAM sticks - 1 Corsair ValueSelect 512MB and a OCZ Premier 512MB. I left in the 1GB ValueSelect RAM.

I thought everything was working fine however once again the computer froze. Then when I tried rebooting I hit the power up button and it tried booting however quickly turned off. So I like I said above I took out the RAM and I am here posting. So I will let you know again to see if it freezes. Is there any programs to help narrow down the problem faster? So if its not the RAM then what?

 

[brencat]

Oi...sorry to hear that Maric. I'm starting to wonder if your CPU isn't overheating. You mentioned that the mobo quickly shut down shortly after one of your reboots. That could have been the A7N8X's CPU overheat protection kicking in. Please check that your heatsink fan is spinning, not clogged with dust, and properly secured to the socket. Once you've verified that, reboot...and hold down <Delete> to get into the Bios. Check the Hardware Monitor menu and look at the CPU and mobo temps. Your CPU should not be idling much above 45 - 47c. Look at the CPU fan RPMs - they should not be below 1000.

Next, go into the "Advanced Chipset Features" menu and verify that your settings read as below. The settings I've indicated are based on the CPU and RAM you gave us in your earlier post. You may find that some of your settings are different from what I'm recommending. Don't worry...write down anything you have different from me below and we can talk about it if you have any questions.

CPU External Frequency (MHz) [166]
CPU Frequency Multiple Setting [Auto]
CPU Frequency Multiple [13x]
System Performance [User Defined]
CPU Interface [Optimal]
Memory Frequency [100%]
Resulting Frequency 166MHz
Memory Timing [User Defined]
SDRAM Active Precharge Delay [8]
SDRAM RAS to CAS Delay [3]
SDRAM RAS Precharge Delay [3]
SDRAM CAS Latency [2.5T]
FSB Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
AGP Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
CPU Vcore Setting [Auto]
CPU Vcore (Core Voltage) [1.65V]
Graphics Aperture Size [128M]
AGP Frequency (MHz) [66]
System BIOS Cacheable [Disabled]
Video RAM Cacheable [Disabled]
DDR Reference Voltage [2.7V]
AGP VDDQ Voltage [1.5V]
AGP 8X Support [Enabled]
AGP Fast Write Capability [Enabled]

 

[Maric]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: brencat
Oi...sorry to hear that Maric. I'm starting to wonder if your CPU isn't overheating. You mentioned that the mobo quickly shut down shortly after one of your reboots. That could have been the A7N8X's CPU overheat protection kicking in. Please check that your heatsink fan is spinning, not clogged with dust, and properly secured to the socket. Once you've verified that, reboot...and hold down <Delete> to get into the Bios. Check the Hardware Monitor menu and look at the CPU and mobo temps. Your CPU should not be idling much above 45 - 47c. Look at the CPU fan RPMs - they should not be below 1000.

Next, go into the "Advanced Chipset Features" menu and verify that your settings read as below. The settings I've indicated are based on the CPU and RAM you gave us in your earlier post. You may find that some of your settings are different from what I'm recommending. Don't worry...write down anything you have different from me below and we can talk about it if you have any questions.

CPU External Frequency (MHz) [166]
CPU Frequency Multiple Setting [Auto]
CPU Frequency Multiple [13x]
System Performance [User Defined]
CPU Interface [Optimal]
Memory Frequency [100%]
Resulting Frequency 166MHz
Memory Timing [User Defined]
SDRAM Active Precharge Delay [8]
SDRAM RAS to CAS Delay [3]
SDRAM RAS Precharge Delay [3]
SDRAM CAS Latency [2.5T]
FSB Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
AGP Spread Spectrum [Disabled]
CPU Vcore Setting [Auto]
CPU Vcore (Core Voltage) [1.65V]
Graphics Aperture Size [128M]
AGP Frequency (MHz) [66]
System BIOS Cacheable [Disabled]
Video RAM Cacheable [Disabled]
DDR Reference Voltage [2.7V]
AGP VDDQ Voltage [1.5V]
AGP 8X Support [Enabled]
AGP Fast Write Capability [Enabled]</end quote></div>

I changed everything to what you said. There was a few that were a little different from what you posted.


Resulting Frequency 166MHz = 200MHz
Memory Timing [User Defined]

SDRAM RAS to CAS Delay [3]
SDRAM RAS Precharge Delay [3]
SDRAM CAS Latency [2.5T]

One of this was different from what you had.

Graphics Aperture Size [128M] = This was at 64MB
AGP Frequency (MHz) [66] = I think this was at auto

Finally the CPU temperature was at 63C/145F
The MOBO temperature was at 38C/100F

I checked the heatsink fan and it was still spinnng strong. So I highly doubt those are correct CPU readings?

 

[brencat]

Originally posted by: Maric
Finally the CPU temperature was at 63C/145F
The MOBO temperature was at 38C/100F

I checked the heatsink fan and it was still spinnng strong. So I highly doubt those are correct CPU readings?

Maric, I have never known the A7N8X Bios to report a temperature significantly different from the actual (this is not like the old Gigabyte boards!!). 63C at idle is wayyy too hot. I suspect the freezes are the CPU overheating if that's your idle temp, and when your PC shut down on you...that was basically a confirmation of this suspicion.

I recommend you disconnect the heatsink, clean any/all dust from the fan and fins, use a small amount of 90% pure isopropyl alcohol (or regular alcohol if you don't have that) on a soft cloth to clean the contact surface of the heatsink and CPU core. Apply a fresh coat of thermal paste (use good stuff like Arctic Silver 5), and reseat everything.

The changes I recommended to your Bios settings will help with stability once we get the CPU temp under control. Let us know how you make out.

 

[Maric]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: brencat
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Maric
Finally the CPU temperature was at 63C/145F
The MOBO temperature was at 38C/100F

I checked the heatsink fan and it was still spinnng strong. So I highly doubt those are correct CPU readings?
</end quote></div>
Maric, I have never known the A7N8X Bios to report a temperature significantly different from the actual (this is not like the old Gigabyte boards!!). 63C at idle is wayyy too hot. I suspect the freezes are the CPU overheating if that's your idle temp, and when your PC shut down on you...that was basically a confirmation of this suspicion.

I recommend you disconnect the heatsink, clean any/all dust from the fan and fins, use a small amount of 90% pure isopropyl alcohol (or regular alcohol if you don't have that) on a soft cloth to clean the contact surface of the heatsink and CPU core. Apply a fresh coat of thermal paste (use good stuff like Arctic Silver 5), and reseat everything.

The changes I recommended to your Bios settings will help with stability once we get the CPU temp under control. Let us know how you make out.</end quote></div>

So first and foremost like I stated earlier I took out the RAM out the two stick of RAMS yesterday and I left the computer on all night and it did not freeze. It hasn't stayed on this long without freezing since the problem started. So today I did what you told me and took out the heatsink cleaned the heatink applied a fresh coat of thermal paste on the heatsink and the cpu. I however forgot to plug in the heatsink fan power and at first I got readings of 55c which is about 10 degrees lower from my previous reading so I thought cool it worked. However I started seeing the temparature readings slowly going up when I quickly realized that I forgot to plug in the heatsink fan power. So of course I a turned it off and I little sit about a few hours. Then I booted it again this time with the heatsink fan on and with the fresh coat of thermal paste it gave the same readings of 65c which was the same before I put the frest coat.

After this I decided to put one RAM of stick which was the OCZ premier series which has on the label 2.5-3-3-7 which I noticed i seen this on the settings I changed. The settings I have that you recommended was 2.5t-3-3-8. So while having this stick on it froze about two hours in. So I took it out and put the other RAM stick in which is a Value RAM which it is in now while I am posting this.

So I have two questions - is the heatsink fan suppose to be on top of the CPU on really tight? What I mean is that when you put the heatsink is suppose to have really tight clamp fit? Meaning while installing the heatsink I use the screwdriver to push down on the metal that holds it down to the motherboard since I can't use my fingers.

Also I'm I putting the thermal paste on correctly? I smeared a nice coat of paste on the metal part of heatsink and then put a nice coat on the reactangle on top of the CPU.

Obviously its too soon to tell if its the RAM stick or the RAM module causing the lock ups since I've only been testing this new RAM stick on the the different RAM module about 2 hours.

 

[brencat]

Originally posted by: Maric
So I have two questions - is the heatsink fan suppose to be on top of the CPU on really tight? What I mean is that when you put the heatsink is suppose to have really tight clamp fit? Meaning while installing the heatsink I use the screwdriver to push down on the metal that holds it down to the motherboard since I can't use my fingers.

Also I'm I putting the thermal paste on correctly? I smeared a nice coat of paste on the metal part of heatsink and then put a nice coat on the reactangle on top of the CPU.

Yes, the HSF is supposed to be on the CPU tight. Make sure it's on the right way around though -- with the raised notch on the bottom of the HS aligned with the top of the socket. Pages 8 - 14 of this guide will show you what I mean about the notch lining up correctly:

http://www.amd.com/us-en/asset...nd_tech_docs/23986.pdf

No, you used too much thermal paste - which is just as bad as not using any. You only need a tiny amount the size of a cooked rice grain which you place in the center of the core only. Then take the edge of a credit card and smooth it totally flat over the entire core. You need to clean up everything with isopropyl alcohol and start over. Check out page 5 of this guide:

http://www.arcticsilver.com/pd...5_singlecore_expsd.pdf

Once you've squared away these issues, test each stick of RAM and each RAM slot on your mobo separately for errors. For that, you'll need to make a floppy or ISO of a program called memtest86 which you can get from the below link. The program runs right after POST. Test each RAM stick in each slot for at least 8 hrs each with this program. Any errors at all and your stick or slot may be bad. Make a note of it, then test the others the same way. Be methodical and patient. Did you raise the DDR Reference Voltage in Bios to 2.7v like I suggested? If not, make sure you do before you start the test.

http://www.memtest.org/

 

[Maric]

Originally posted by: brencat
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Maric
So I have two questions - is the heatsink fan suppose to be on top of the CPU on really tight? What I mean is that when you put the heatsink is suppose to have really tight clamp fit? Meaning while installing the heatsink I use the screwdriver to push down on the metal that holds it down to the motherboard since I can't use my fingers.

Also I'm I putting the thermal paste on correctly? I smeared a nice coat of paste on the metal part of heatsink and then put a nice coat on the reactangle on top of the CPU.
</end quote></div>
Yes, the HSF is supposed to be on the CPU tight. Make sure it's on the right way around though -- with the raised notch on the bottom of the HS aligned with the top of the socket. Pages 8 - 14 of this guide will show you what I mean about the notch lining up correctly:

http://www.amd.com/us-en/asset...nd_tech_docs/23986.pdf

No, you used too much thermal paste - which is just as bad as not using any. You only need a tiny amount the size of a cooked rice grain which you place in the center of the core only. Then take the edge of a credit card and smooth it totally flat over the entire core. You need to clean up everything with isopropyl alcohol and start over. Check out page 5 of this guide:

http://www.arcticsilver.com/pd...5_singlecore_expsd.pdf

Once you've squared away these issues, test each stick of RAM and each RAM slot on your mobo separately for errors. For that, you'll need to make a floppy or ISO of a program called memtest86 which you can get from the below link. The program runs right after POST. Test each RAM stick in each slot for at least 8 hrs each with this program. Any errors at all and your stick or slot may be bad. Make a note of it, then test the others the same way. Be methodical and patient. Did you raise the DDR Reference Voltage in Bios to 2.7v like I suggested? If not, make sure you do before you start the test.

http://www.memtest.org/

When barely put in the fresh coat of thermal paste the temperature was at 50c then went back to 65c. What I am started to realize is mostly during the day the computer keeps freezing won't even turn on most of the time. My room gets pretty hot during the day maybe in the high 80's. But today at night when its not too hot in the room I turned it on again and the cpu readings were going from 55c-50c to 30c instantly then back to 55c to 50c again. How could the temperature be bouncing everywhere?

 

[Vovlov]

Maric

Hope this helps in some way!

I had this same problem you're having. I've found out that the freezing was due a faulty RAM slot. So you should check each slot individually by placing only one RAM module (just like brencat suggested).

Regarding the temperature, my problem was that my pc was in a small cabinet that dind´t allow the hot air to come out dispite being open on both sides. As you may know hot air tends to climb up so be sure that you're not restraining air movement above your pc and the area around is free of heat sources and there´s lot of space for the pc to "BREATHE".


I'm not a pc expert so these are just some ideas!

 

[KGB]

Maric,

Check your MB for bad capacitors. NF2 boards were plagued by this.

Check here for more details.

 

[onamatic]

I have been wrestling with the same mobo ( with an XP3000+) for months. Same symptoms roughly; freezes then uncommanded power down, overclocking or not makes no difference. Does the same under Linux or Windows. It's been the most pernickety mobo I've come across, the BIOS plays fast and loose with IRQs it seems - sometimes it's OK, sometimes not.

Gut feeling is that it certainly isn't a power supply problem and probably isn't CPU temp. related BUT I have noted spurious leaps in reported temperatures - by their very nature they're extremely hard to capture / reproduce. Cannot find any loose connections to account for them - am currently investigating this (when I can find my freezer spray).

It's a shame - it's a really good board when it works (which it does sometimes for days!).

Will report back if anything comes to light.

 

[htpcguy]

I just joined to participate in this thread.

This board was a huge hit a while back and I got my recommendations here I think.
It had a lot of great features and overclockability for a good price.
Personally, it was always finicky for me with the settings though I recently got a little speed boost by installing ubuntu to dual boot (beside the point) and feel like for business / web daily use it is still pretty peppy so I thought Ubuntu would buy me another year until i'd get a core2duo or something with a similarly full featured mb.

Unfortunately, a month ago a power supply started going and it couldn't make it through the windows boot anymore. Swapped it with another old one and it worked great for a month. However, now it won't get past spinning the hard drives and fans. It doesn't make that first beep and the monitor stays off.

I noticed 2 of 4 of the large capacitors leaking something

 

[htpcguy]

http://www.badcaps.net/forum/s....php?p=35346#post35346