Assisted Suicide Ruled Legal In Canada

[cbrunny]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/0...-strikes-down-ban-on-doctor-assisted-suicide/

Ok, so the title is hyperbole. But you know someone is going to say it and actually mean it.


Please keep your opinion for your commentary, and not for deforming the accuracy of your title.

Perknose
Forum Director

 

[Harabec]

Anyone who's against it is probably leading a peaceful, ignorant life and wishes to force his own views on others, taking away their most basic right to choose when to live and when to die...


IMO.

 

[PokerGuy]

Seems like a perfectly logical ruling, I agree with their reasoning. I've never understood what makes people feel they have the right to tell other people what they should have to endure in their lives. If someone feels they don't want to endure something anymore, that's up to them. I'm in favor of people making their own decisions for their own lives.

One note I found interesting is that they don't limit it to people with "terminal" conditions, which opens the door to (for example), someone with Alzheimers or early onset dementia to call it quits with the assistance of a doctor.

 

[Blanky]

I don't know what my opinion is on it but I find it funny that there are definitely people who are against assisted suicide yet for capital punishment and at the same time probably think themselves small-government libertarians.

 

[PokerGuy]

I don't know what my opinion is on it but I find it funny that there are definitely people who are against assisted suicide yet for capital punishment and at the same time probably think themselves small-government libertarians.

Those two notions are not at all contradictory. Capital punishment is just that -- punishment for a heinous crime and permanent removal of the offender from society so they can't further offend. Assisted suicide is completely different and unrelated, your position on one issue has no logical bearing on your position on the other.

 

[Subyman]

It is a tough issue. I believe a person, if deemed terminally ill, should have the choice to pursue that option. I'd think it may be hard to find a doctor that would do it locally, but I don't think the government should stand in the way. There would need to be a lot of safe guards and oversight.

There is the darker side of me thinking why go through a $200,000+ assisted suicide panel when a $1 bullet would do it in the comfort of your home, but I know that's crazy talk.

 

[Subyman]

Those two notions are not at all contradictory. Capital punishment is just that -- punishment for a heinous crime and permanent removal of the offender from society so they can't further offend. Assisted suicide is completely different and unrelated, your position on one issue has no logical bearing on your position on the other.

I agree, but I also think the opinions tend to go hand-in-hand and not in the way Blanky would think. I think a compassionate person would be against capital punishment but for euthanasia. A hard-liner would be for capital punishment but against euthanasia.

 

[Spungo]

I've never understood what makes people feel they have the right to tell other people what they should have to endure in their lives.

It's because I can't get an erection unless I know people are dying a slow and painful death and our laws try to prolong their suffering. Why do you gotta hate on my sexual needs? This is discrimination.

 

[cbrunny]

I agree, but I also think the opinions tend to go hand-in-hand and not in the way Blanky would think. I think a compassionate person would be against capital punishment but for euthanasia. A hard-liner would be for capital punishment but against euthanasia.

i would also tend to agree with this.

 

[Blanky]

Those two notions are not at all contradictory. Capital punishment is just that -- punishment for a heinous crime and permanent removal of the offender from society so they can't further offend. Assisted suicide is completely different and unrelated, your position on one issue has no logical bearing on your position on the other.

Of course they are. If you're against assisted suicide but for capital punishment you hold the view that government has a more profound decision on whether you live or die than you do; it alone decides whether you can live or die.

 

[zinfamous]

thread title says murder, but article is about suicide.

:hmm:

 

[PokerGuy]

Of course they are. If you're against assisted suicide but for capital punishment you hold the view that government has a more profound decision on whether you live or die than you do; it alone decides whether you can live or die.

That's baloney. Capital punishment is not something simply levied against someone on a whim of government for no particular reason. It's punishment for a specific crime. Thus someone has complete control if they are going to be subject to capital punishment or not. You can be for that, and also be against euthanasia for other reasons (religious, moral, ethical, whatever). The two positions are not connected, though there might be a correlation. I happen to be for both, because I favor people being free to make decisions, but also to face the consequences of those decisions.

 

[cbrunny]

If you had a 2 x 2 matrix that was a non-bastardized version of this:

..Capital Punishment
.....For.......Against
__________________
|............|.............| Euthanasia
|....a......|......b......| For
|_______|________|
|............|.............|
|.....c......|.....d......| Against
|_______ |________|

I would expect that the majority of people would be split relatively evenly between cells 'b' and 'c'. There will still be people in cells 'a' and 'd' though. I would expect more in 'a' than 'd' but not by much.

 

[Vic]

One of these days, someone is going to have to explain to me how refusing heroic end-of-life modern medical care is the same as suicide.

 

[cbrunny]

heroic end-of-life modern medical care

what is that?

 

[Vic]

what is that?

The health industry's bread and butter and where about a third of all medicare costs go.
It is keeping patients alive through costly and invasive medical procedures when there is no realistic hope of quality of life improvement.

 

[zinfamous]

That's baloney. Capital punishment is not something simply levied against someone on a whim of government for no particular reason. It's punishment for a specific crime. Thus someone has complete control if they are going to be subject to capital punishment or not. You can be for that, and also be against euthanasia for other reasons (religious, moral, ethical, whatever). The two positions are not connected, though there might be a correlation. I happen to be for both, because I favor people being free to make decisions, but also to face the consequences of those decisions.

Assuming the government adequately determines the guilt of those it puts to death, that would be one thing.

But it doesn't. The government willfully condemns innocents through its reliance on the feebleness and whims of the justice system. It's shameful, really, and at this point I don't see how anyone could morally support such a failed system.

 

[cbrunny]

The health industry's bread and butter and where about a third of all medicare costs go.
It is keeping patients alive through costly and invasive medical procedures when there is no realistic hope of quality of life improvement.

Well, ok, I guess. That's a bit confusing without an example though, or stats on how common that sort of thing happens. The American system is basically built on a means-to-pay model though, and in the case of straight out of pocket healthcare costs why should the hospital not do the procedure? What's the incentive to say no to a paying customer with a fistfull of cash?

Mind you, I think the American model is batshit stupid, and I'm strongly in favour of a universal single payer like we have in Canada.

 

[Ichigo]

Well, ok, I guess. That's a bit confusing without an example though, or stats on how common that sort of thing happens. The American system is basically built on a means-to-pay model though, and in the case of straight out of pocket healthcare costs why should the hospital not do the procedure? What's the incentive to say no to a paying customer with a fistfull of cash?

Mind you, I think the American model is batshit stupid, and I'm strongly in favour of a universal single payer like we have in Canada.

America's insistence that it's #1 in every facet of life means that it would rather continue its current health care model before admitting that Canada has a better system and wounding its pride.

 

[Victorian Gray]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/0...-strikes-down-ban-on-doctor-assisted-suicide/

Ok, so the title is hyperbole. But you know someone is going to say it and actually mean it.

It's about bloody time. Now we get to see how Harper tries to weasel around the ruling.

My money is on the Court.

 

[PokerGuy]

It's shameful, really, and at this point I don't see how anyone could morally support such a failed system.

It's not a thread about the merits or moral support for capital punishment, that's a whole other discussion. A poster compared support for euthanasia vs support for capital punishment, and my point is that they are not the same and they are not tied together in any way.

 

[PokerGuy]

America's insistence that it's #1 in every facet of life means that it would rather continue its current health care model before admitting that Canada has a better system and wounding its pride.

Sorry, Kanukistan can keep it's crappy healthcare system, thank you very much.

 

[Blanky]

That's baloney. Capital punishment is not something simply levied against someone on a whim of government for no particular reason. It's punishment for a specific crime. Thus someone has complete control if they are going to be subject to capital punishment or not. You can be for that, and also be against euthanasia for other reasons (religious, moral, ethical, whatever). The two positions are not connected, though there might be a correlation. I happen to be for both, because I favor people being free to make decisions, but also to face the consequences of those decisions.

Fairly sure that euthanasia is not levied against someone on a whim, either.

Deciding whether somebody can live or die is claiming the ultimate level of judgement. To argue the government can make the decision for an individual but the individual cannot is contradictory. I maintain my original view.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Sorry, Kanukistan can keep it's crappy healthcare system, thank you very much.

S'ok, we're happy to keep a cheaper, better performing system.

 

[Blanky]

Sorry, Kanukistan can keep it's crappy healthcare system, thank you very much.

But it isn't crappy. Objective studies comparing outcomes, citizen satisfaction with healthcare, etc. show that Canada is superior. It may not be for you, it may not be for me (I have great health insurance, insofar as that's possible in the US), but taken as a whole Canada is doing more per dollar than the US. That last point is actually not even a debate-able one.