Ask the card-carrying socialists: Is Obama one of them? - Wharton, co-chair of...

[blackangst1]

You must be locked in the teabagger wing of the sanitarium then. You need to find a window or something to see the 99% of the world not as crazy as you.

Really?

 

[Brainonska511]

Whoa, is it me, or is spidey turning into dmcowen?

There must be balance in the Force.

 

[Red Dawn]

Easy to understand when you hang out at klan meetings ...

The sheet is strong with this one.

 

[Mani]

What the hell "he's not even a liberal". He was the most liberal senator there was. The most radical far left president we've ever had. And he's a marxist/communist which includes some socialist tendencies. I normally just call him what he really is, a piece of shit.

Marxist/ communist - do you even know what that means? Have you read Marx's manifesto? You guys throw around incendiary terms like this without having any clue what they truly mean - and you wonder why nobody takes you seriously.

 

[ShawnD1]

Marxist/ communist - do you even know what that means? Have you read Marx's manifesto? You guys throw around incendiary terms like this without having any clue what they truly mean - and you wonder why nobody takes you seriously.

It's fun to type these common words into the WordWeb dictionary to see what they actually mean.

Liberal (noun)
1. A person who favours a political philosophy of progress and reform and the protection of civil liberties
2. A person who favours an economic theory of laissez-faire and self-regulating markets

Conservative (noun)
1. Resistant to change
2. Having social or political views favouring conservatism (worst definition ever)
3. Avoiding excess (example given is "a conservative estimate")
4. Unimaginatively conventional
5. Conforming to the standards and conventions of the middle class

Communism
1. A form of socialism that abolishes private ownership
2. A political theory favouring collectivism in a classless society

Marxism
1. The economic and political theories of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels that hold that human actions and institutions are economically determined and that class struggle is needed to create historical change and that capitalism will ultimately be superseded by communism

I've never seen marxism summarized in a way that actually made sense. From the description, that actually does sound about right. Yes people do things based on money, yes class struggle creates change, and yes communism is taking over, but it will eventually be overthrown by a class struggle within the communist state (ie USSR).

 

[JEDIYoda]

Ask the card-carrying socialists: Is Obama one of them?

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/14/Obama.socialist/index.html?hpt=C2

But Wharton, co-chair of the Socialist Party USA, sees no reason to celebrate. He's seen people with bumper stickers and placards that call Obama a socialist, and he has a message for them: Obama isn't a socialist. He's not even a liberal.

He and others say the assertion that Obama is a socialist is absurd.
"It makes no rational sense. It clearly means that people don't understand what socialism is."


Since so many people keep throwing that term around, and they really have no idea what it means, I thought this was a good piece.

can I ask one question?? please....
Who gives a shit?

 

[jbh545]

No doubt he's a socialist to the core. Obviously hardcore socialists aren't going to be happy with him because he's not able to openly and honestly admit who he was lest he see unrest and popular revolt far in excess of what's occurring now. There would be no way for him to get elected on a socialist platform. In fact, he campaigned as a centrist and many of his speeches were Reagan-esque, focusing on American exceptionalism and tax cuts for the middle class. Look at his associations, the kind of people he appoints to office, and the comments that occasionally slip out despite his best efforts, and it's pretty clear what his true beliefs are. For example, the socialist in that article is upset that Obama didn't push single payer. Well, Obama didn't push single payer because it never would have passed, but is there any doubt that he wants that? Hell, there are old videos of that saying it's what he wants.

It goes deeper than that though. I firmly believe that in Barack Obama for the first time we have a president who does not like this country and what it represents. Many liberals throughout American history (like say FDR), even though they damaged the country greatly, I can recognize that it was through good but misguided intentions rather than malevolence. Obama either has less of an understanding of economics than could be gained in an evening of reading, or he understands economics but is actively sabotaging the economy to push more people down into the social classes that vote left. Either scenario is deplorable. Really, what kind of president says "Like it or not, America is still a superpower"? Someone worthy of the office should aspire to have America be #1 in everything as it has been in the past.

 

[Brainonska511]

No doubt he's a socialist to the core. Obviously hardcore socialists aren't going to be happy with him because he's not able to openly and honestly admit who he was lest he see unrest and popular revolt far in excess of what's occurring now. There would be no way for him to get elected on a socialist platform. In fact, he campaigned as a centrist and many of his speeches were Reagan-esque, focusing on American exceptionalism and tax cuts for the middle class. Look at his associations, the kind of people he appoints to office, and the comments that occasionally slip out despite his best efforts, and it's pretty clear what his true beliefs are. For example, the socialist in that article is upset that Obama didn't push single payer. Well, Obama didn't push single payer because it never would have passed, but is there any doubt that he wants that? Hell, there are old videos of that saying it's what he wants.

It goes deeper than that though. I firmly believe that in Barack Obama for the first time we have a president who does not like this country and what it represents. Many liberals throughout American history (like say FDR), even though they damaged the country greatly, I can recognize that it was through good but misguided intentions rather than malevolence. Obama either has less of an understanding of economics than could be gained in an evening of reading, or he understands economics but is actively sabotaging the economy to push more people down into the social classes that vote left. Either scenario is deplorable. Really, what kind of president says "Like it or not, America is still a superpower"? Someone worthy of the office should aspire to have America be #1 in everything as it has been in the past.

Looks like someone was hit in the head a few too many times with the crazy stick.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Read below. LMAO at the gibbering idiocy of Obama haters.

 

[IronWing]

Spidey, 1) what are you drinking tonight?

2) What are you complaining about? Obama and the Dem Congress gave your industry the keys to the public cash drawer with the pro-insurance industry health reform law. You guys will have at least a solid decade to loot America before anyone will make another run at fixing the health care system.

 

[jbh545]

Looks like someone was hit in the head a few too many times with the crazy stick.

Good to see that you can debate on substance. I guess this never happened.

http://www.breitbart.tv/obama-in-03-id-like-to-see-a-single-payer-health-care-plan/

 

[Brainonska511]

Good to see that you can debate on substance. I guess this never happened.

http://www.breitbart.tv/obama-in-03-id-like-to-see-a-single-payer-health-care-plan/

What's the point of debating with people like you? To quote Barney Frank, "trying to have a conversation with you would be like arguing with a dining room table: I have no interest in doing it."

You're just going to play the 'socialist, secret muslim homosexual facist marist commie who hates america' card, which never had any substance to start. So really, I see nothing to debate.

 

[nakedfrog]

Good to see that you can debate on substance. I guess this never happened.

http://www.breitbart.tv/obama-in-03-id-like-to-see-a-single-payer-health-care-plan/

If it makes you feel any better, when I read this:

It goes deeper than that though. I firmly believe that in Barack Obama for the first time we have a president who does not like this country and what it represents.

I immediately wrote you off as a crackpot.
And I can't see how the legislation we're stuck with now is better than a single-payer system.

 

[Descartes]

No doubt he's a socialist to the core. Obviously hardcore socialists aren't going to be happy with him because he's not able to openly and honestly admit who he was lest he see unrest and popular revolt far in excess of what's occurring now. There would be no way for him to get elected on a socialist platform. In fact, he campaigned as a centrist and many of his speeches were Reagan-esque, focusing on American exceptionalism and tax cuts for the middle class. Look at his associations, the kind of people he appoints to office, and the comments that occasionally slip out despite his best efforts, and it's pretty clear what his true beliefs are. For example, the socialist in that article is upset that Obama didn't push single payer. Well, Obama didn't push single payer because it never would have passed, but is there any doubt that he wants that? Hell, there are old videos of that saying it's what he wants.

It goes deeper than that though. I firmly believe that in Barack Obama for the first time we have a president who does not like this country and what it represents. Many liberals throughout American history (like say FDR), even though they damaged the country greatly, I can recognize that it was through good but misguided intentions rather than malevolence. Obama either has less of an understanding of economics than could be gained in an evening of reading, or he understands economics but is actively sabotaging the economy to push more people down into the social classes that vote left. Either scenario is deplorable. Really, what kind of president says "Like it or not, America is still a superpower"? Someone worthy of the office should aspire to have America be #1 in everything as it has been in the past.

What's worse, someone that wants America to be #1 in everything at any cost or someone so arrogant that they assume America was #1 and refuses to be open to evidence to the contrary?

You can love your child, but a parent that refuses to believe their child does anything wrong is a bad parent.

 

[blackangst1]

If it makes you feel any better, when I read this:

I immediately wrote you off as a crackpot.
And I can't see how the legislation we're stuck with now is better than a single-payer system.

Because the single payer system, without the abiloity to opt out, and the inclusion of an optional third party payer, is unconstitutional.

 

[jbh545]

What's worse, someone that wants America to be #1 in everything at any cost or someone so arrogant that they assume America was #1 and refuses to be open to evidence to the contrary?

You can love your child, but a parent that refuses to believe their child does anything wrong is a bad parent.

Show me some evidence that modern America has not been number 1 in the things that matter: economy, technology, military.

What's the point of debating with people like you? To quote Barney Frank, "trying to have a conversation with you would be like arguing with a dining room table: I have no interest in doing it."

You're just going to play the 'socialist, secret muslim homosexual facist marist commie who hates america' card, which never had any substance to start. So really, I see nothing to debate.

Well, there may not be much point to actual debate for you since you don't have the ability. You're very skilled at arguing against straw men though. I don't recall opining on Obama's religion or sexuality. In fact, I don't really care about that. But he is a radical leftist who is ashamed of America's superiority.

 

[ShawnD1]

Because the single payer system, without the abiloity to opt out, and the inclusion of an optional third party payer, is unconstitutional.

Therefore Social Security is unconstitutional.

 

[earthman]

You guys are fucking idiots. President Obama is so far from Socialist he's practically a Republican. He's probably to the right of where a guy like Eisenhower would have been. You really have no idea what a Socialist (or Marxist, for that matter) is, if you buy into any of that. A lot of people on the left, including myself, are disappointed he hasn't shown a little more backbone with the right wing freaks who want to run this country.

 

[umbrella39]

You really have no fucking clue do you? Can you go find a grade school student to explain things to you? Start at 3rd grade and work your way up.

He definitely needs to focus his grade school studies on US History and Government. He has demonstrated time and time again that he hasn't the foggiest clue about either subject.

 

[nakedfrog]

Because the single payer system, without the abiloity to opt out, and the inclusion of an optional third party payer, is unconstitutional.

That makes what just got passed better than a single payer system?

It's too bad they didn't put anything in the Constitution about people actually having to read legislation and know when it entails before it's passed. I guess they figured it was a given.

 

[Sclamoz]

According to some idiots on this board our founding fathers would qualify as socialists!

In 1798, Congress thus enacted a law "for the relief of sick and disabled seamen." The bill taxed mariners’ wages—at the rate of twenty cents per month—to finance health care for ailing sailors in ports throughout the country. The gentlemen attorneys and merchants who wrote this legislation did not trust mariners to personally pay hospital taxes. Rather ship captains garnished the wages and paid them directly to federal customs officials. In this sense the marine hospital tax was a progenitor of the payroll tax. But this method of taxation also conveniently fit the maritime master-servant relationship in the early republic. As maritime historian Marcus Rediker illustrates, the merchant vessel was a highly disciplined space in which sea captains exerted immense authority over the mariner’s body and labor. Captains and merchants also enjoyed advantages in the bargaining of labor contracts, which were typically informal and unwritten. These power relations even influenced the disbursement of wages. To prevent desertion, full payment came only at the conclusion of a voyage. The marine hospital tax now functioned on the same principle and power structure. The merchants and sea captains, who controlled the mariners’ labor and wages, now ensured that mariners would pay the taxes necessary to maintain a healthy and productive labor force.

http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/cp/vol-09/no-01/rao/

 

[BigDH01]

The Socialist, Communist, and Marxist name-calling is nothing but a sham, a diversion to what he really is. A corporatist. So why aren't the Republicans calling him a corporatist? Because they are too.

This pretty much sums up the reality of the situation. Our presidents, including Obama, are closer to Fascist than they are Socialist. I don't see Obama genuinely enacting policy to hand ownership over to laborers. Most policy in this country favors the corporation, and some people on this board appear to worship the same.

 

[Atheus]

Was he or was he not the most liberal/left leaning senator when he served?

If you say no, then you really haven't been paying attention to Hussein.

He may or may not be the most left-leaning American politician, but by the standards of the rest of the world that's still pretty right wing. Most people here consider your party to be radical far-right and the Democrats centrist. Why don't you try asking a Frenchman about American socialism and see if he laughs in your face.

 

[Slick5150]

Because the single payer system, without the abiloity to opt out, and the inclusion of an optional third party payer, is unconstitutional.

According to....... who, exactly?

I like throwing out baseless statements like that to prove a point too.

 

[Siddhartha]

You guys are fucking idiots. President Obama is so far from Socialist he's practically a Republican. He's probably to the right of where a guy like Eisenhower would have been. You really have no idea what a Socialist (or Marxist, for that matter) is, if you buy into any of that. A lot of people on the left, including myself, are disappointed he hasn't shown a little more backbone with the right wing freaks who want to run this country.

He is not a Socialist or a Communist. But he is dealing with political opponents who are willing to let the country go into a 1930's type Depression for purely political motives.