Asiana crash from last year.

[waggy]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2329244&highlight=asiana+airlines

this is the thread.

anyway one of the girls was ran over by a firetruck. people were saying how she was thrown out and couldn't be seen.

well now to find out they seen her and she was near the plane. They just didn't check on her..

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/15/us/asiana-crash-new-video/

warning the video has dead bodies.

 

[SSSnail]

Yeah, they ran her over, twice. Two different trucks.

 

[Jodell88]

 

[AViking]

All in all I'm pretty happy that almost everyone survived that crazy crash.

 

[maddogchen]

now they are going after the fireman who wore the helmet cam. probably because its embarrassing evidence of their failures.

 

[bignateyk]

Yeah, they ran her over, twice. Two different trucks.

Can't really blame the guys who ran her over. At that point she was totally covered in foam.

The people who saw her originally could have stopped to check on her, but then they are putting 300 other people in danger by delaying their response.

Was a shitty accident, but I don't think there was any negligence.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

I feel for the girls parents (and the girl), but we are talking about an extreme event. Although (some) firefighters are trained for those situations, actually taking action when something like that occurs is something few people are prepared for. The fact that mistakes were made and someone died is not surprising to me, and it should not be surprising to anyone else (particularly anyone who has spent time as an emergency responder). Again - I sympathize with the girl and her parents. But I firmly believe that we as a society should not criminally (or even civally) punish emergency responders for failing to execute a "perfect" rescue operation, even in instances where it appears (in hindsight) that a group of responders acted in a way that seemingly lacked good judgement.

Remember, this is not an instance where only one person failed to act to save the girl, but an entire group. To me, that speaks to the intensity of the situation, and the fact that probably all of the firefighters involved presumed the girl was already dead. Should they have checked her pulse? Sure. Should they have taken more care to avoid her body with the truck? Absolutely. But in the heat of that moment, with the burning wreck of a huge plane looming over them, it is easy (at least to me) to understand how a mistake like that could happen. And while the result of those mistakes was tragic, the actions of the firefighters (in my mind, at least) was and is not criminal.

 

[dabuddha]

I feel for the girls parents (and the girl), but we are talking about an extreme event. Although (some) firefighters are trained for those situations, actually taking action when something like that occurs is something few people are prepared for. The fact that mistakes were made and someone died is not surprising to me, and it should not be surprising to anyone else (particularly anyone who has spent time as an emergency responder). Again - I sympathize with the girl and her parents. But I firmly believe that we as a society should not criminally (or even civally) punish emergency responders for failing to execute a "perfect" rescue operation, even in instances where it appears (in hindsight) that a group of responders acted in a way that seemingly lacked good judgement.

Remember, this is not an instance where only one person failed to act to save the girl, but an entire group. To me, that speaks to the intensity of the situation, and the fact that probably all of the firefighters involved presumed the girl was already dead. Should they have checked her pulse? Sure. Should they have taken more care to avoid her body with the truck? Absolutely. But in the heat of that moment, with the burning wreck of a huge plane looming over them, it is easy (at least to me) to understand how a mistake like that could happen. And while the result of those mistakes was tragic, the actions of the firefighters (in my mind, at least) was and is not criminal.

That's the part that really gets me. Instead of "Sure," my answer would be a resounding "Absolutely!" I understand its an extreme situation but they didn't even bother to check if she was alive (from what little I could see in that choppy video). Maybe not criminal but at the very least, they should not be allowed to be firefighters anymore.

 

[purbeast0]

That's the part that really gets me. Instead of "Sure," my answer would be a resounding "Absolutely!" I understand its an extreme situation but they didn't even bother to check if she was alive (from what little I could see in that choppy video). Maybe not criminal but at the very least, they should not be allowed to be firefighters anymore.

for all we know, someone did check her pulse and thought she was dead. the way they were talking about the body was as though they clearly thought she was dead already. and in the heat of the moment i could see how checking the pulse could have gone wrong. i'm sure the firefighters had adrenaline pumping hard.

i agree too that they should not be punished criminally. i'm not sure how i feel about them not being firefighters either. this is 1 incident that went totally wrong out of probably thousands that went right.

 

[bignateyk]

That's the part that really gets me. Instead of "Sure," my answer would be a resounding "Absolutely!" I understand its an extreme situation but they didn't even bother to check if she was alive (from what little I could see in that choppy video). Maybe not criminal but at the very least, they should not be allowed to be firefighters anymore.

So they stop and check her pulse. What happens if in those 3 minutes the plane catches fire and ends up killing 50 people?

They made a split second decision. It cost that girl her life, but who knows how many lives it may have saved?

A downed airplane can blow up at any second. Their priority was making sure the hundreds of people on the plane got off before the whole thing blew up.

 

[rudeguy]

So they stop and check her pulse. What happens if in those 3 minutes the plane catches fire and ends up killing 50 people?

They made a split second decision. It cost that girl her life, but who knows how many lives it may have saved?

A downed airplane can blow up at any second. Their priority was making sure the hundreds of people on the plane got off before the whole thing blew up.

Yea...this is my big problem with a bunch of nerds second guessing every first responder. What the hell do you know about this kind of thing? How do you know what protocols are and aren't in place? Who the fuck are you to judge people that are risking their lives to try to save others?

Meanwhile 99% of these people wouldn't try to help out a fellow human if they saw them in need. God forbid they have to get blood, puke or some other bodily fluid on their $300 jeans. Nope. Better to wait for it to hit the news so I can criticize every move made with my vastly superior knowledge.

Ignorant trolls.

 

[sandorski]

Tragic error. An investigation and procedure change should definitely come out of it. I wouldn't lay blame on anyone though, they'll be going through enough remorse as it is.

 

[PowerYoga]

Can't really blame the guys who ran her over. At that point she was totally covered in foam.

The people who saw her originally could have stopped to check on her, but then they are putting 300 other people in danger by delaying their response.

Was a shitty accident, but I don't think there was any negligence.

nope. She was not covered in foam at all. That's just the bullshit excuse the fire department came up with to save face.

 

[purbeast0]

nope. She was not covered in foam at all. That's just the bullshit excuse the fire department came up with to save face.

you should probably watch the video before you make false comments

 

[PowerYoga]

you should probably watch the video before you make false comments

did YOU watch the video? She's lying on the fucking grass with a man POINTING AT HER.

 

[AViking]

Was everyone off the plane at that point? If the plane was empty and they were just putting a fire out then I would think what they did was wrong. They should have checked for a pulse.

If the plane had passengers on it then zero shits given. One person on the ground outside a burning aircraft can't possibly be more important than many people inside of a burning plane.

 

[bignateyk]

did YOU watch the video? She's lying on the fucking grass with a man POINTING AT HER.

Yeah.. that was when the first people saw her. Then they decided it was probably more important to get to the burning plane to try to save the other hundreds of people.

At that point she became covered in foam, which is when she was run over.

 

[waggy]

Yeah.. that was when the first people saw her. Then they decided it was probably more important to get to the burning plane to try to save the other hundreds of people.

At that point she became covered in foam, which is when she was run over.

actually by the time the firetrucks and such got to it everyone was off the plane.

and having 1 person take 10 seconds to check her pulse is NOT going to endanger anyone. that excuse is such bullshit.

I don't fault the guys driving the trucks. She was covered in foam when they ran her over.

I fault the first people there for A) not checking pulse and B) not moving the body to keep it from getting ran over.

 

[bignateyk]

actually by the time the firetrucks and such got to it everyone was off the plane.

and having 1 person take 10 seconds to check her pulse is NOT going to endanger anyone. that excuse is such bullshit.

I don't fault the guys driving the trucks. She was covered in foam when they ran her over.

I fault the first people there for A) not checking pulse and B) not moving the body to keep it from getting ran over.

It would have taken longer than 10 seconds to stop the truck, get off it, go over to her, check her pulse, and then resume driving.

But I agree, if everyone was already off the plane, they should have stopped and taken care of her.

 

[rudeguy]

It would have taken longer than 10 seconds to stop the truck, get off it, go over to her, check her pulse, and then resume driving.

But I agree, if everyone was already off the plane, they should have stopped and taken care of her.

and how exactly would they know everyone was off the plane?

 

[purbeast0]

did YOU watch the video? She's lying on the fucking grass with a man POINTING AT HER.

yeah, and they didn't run over her at that point. they ran over here when foam was all over the grass.

so again, you should watch the video before you start making false claims.

 

[yuchai]

and how exactly would they know everyone was off the plane?

so, if whether everyone was off the plane is an unknown, it makes more sense to ignore a life that can possibly be saved right in front of you?

i'm not blaming the first respondents, by the way. Maybe they were 100% compliant with current protocol, but I really feel that with the right protocol and execution of it, that this incident was avoidable. So I'd say a review of the incident is certainly in order.

 

[rudeguy]

so, if whether everyone was off the plane is an unknown, it makes more sense to ignore a life that can possibly be saved right in front of you?

i'm not blaming the first respondents, by the way. Maybe they were 100% compliant with current protocol, but I really feel that with the right protocol and execution of it, that this incident was avoidable. So I'd say a review of the incident is certainly in order.

and what makes you more qualified than them to judge the situation?

 

[stlc8tr]

The whole SFFD response would look less shady if the fire chief didn't ban helmet cams after the initial helmet cam footage surfaced showing the SFFD running over the kid.

 

[rudeguy]

The whole SFFD response would look less shady if the fire chief didn't ban helmet cams after the initial helmet cam footage surfaced showing the SFFD running over the kid.

he probably had to do it to stop basement dwelling forum trolls from continually second guessing his people who were putting their lives on the line to save others.