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[Ashraf] 10nm "Lakefield" SoC with Intel big + little cores

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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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You could port the *Chipset* to TSMC, not the Modem, not at this stage of the development cycle. Porting a Modem to a different Fab or Node is about as much work as porting an CPU, if not harder for 5G.

I doubt Intel would have made the early announcement of 8160 if they were unsure of its 10nm by mid 2020.
So, do we know if Intel is fabbing those modems on their 10nm process? Is the TSMC news just a rumour? I'm getting a little confused here.

And unless Apple have been working on their own 5G Baseband in the past few years, I doubt they will have anything to show in 2021 or 2022.
There's rumours that they are, but that all stems from a job posting of theirs from late 2018.
 

moinmoin

Platinum Member
Jun 1, 2017
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There's rumours that they are, but that all stems from a job posting of theirs from late 2018.
I'd say it's a given Apple is working on something of their own, their track record of replacing external tech with internal ones is pretty steady. The question is rather how far they are and whether it's at a point of replacing the external tech any time soon, if ever.

So Intel may well have assessed ages ago that moving their 5G modem to TSCM is less of a risk than missing the internal process node roadmap and risking losing their business with Apple. Note that unlike with their processor business where competition was tame before Ryzen arrived the modem business faced tough competition all the time.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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So, do we know if Intel is fabbing those modems on their 10nm process? Is the TSMC news just a rumour? I'm getting a little confused here.
Just a rumor at this point. Intel would have to deliver like 40-50 million chips by the middle of next year. That's obviously not even close to being realistic on 10 nm.

Apple's modem likely wouldn't be ready in time. Apple could kiss & make up with Qualcomm or use Mediatek's 5G modem. Not sure if they would really want to do either.
 

Dayman1225

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2017
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
18,190
7,090
136
2.6 mW? Wow, nice.

I hope those foldable PCs don't, you know, break. Like those Samsung devices.
 

trivik12

Member
Jan 26, 2006
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7
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Aren’t laptops anyway foldable? Do we really need a tablet or laptop like Galaxy Fold? I would rather see high end laptops with great keyboard, battery life, performance and screen(HDR or OLED or both).
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
10,328
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I would rather see high end laptops with great keyboard, battery life, performance and screen(HDR or OLED or both).
Well, you can already get that if you want. This is something new.

And yes, does sound like Lakefield.
 

sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
40
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Aren’t laptops anyway foldable? Do we really need a tablet or laptop like Galaxy Fold? I would rather see high end laptops with great keyboard, battery life, performance and screen(HDR or OLED or both).

Me too. But that folding x1 carbon looks interesting. 13.3” screen in a 7” tablet form factor but obviously thicker. It will fit in purses and man bags.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
10,328
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Apparently Samsung is going to release a version of the Galaxy Book S with Lakefield. Probably would be the first device with it on the market. Seems that MS is waiting for Lakefield-R.
 

Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
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Apparently Samsung is going to release a version of the Galaxy Book S with Lakefield. Probably would be the first device with it on the market. Seems that MS is waiting for Lakefield-R.
I wonder if its also going to be in the 2.0 to 2.1 lb range. When the Galaxy Book S with Qualcomm was announced as a 13.3" inch on twitter lots of "tech" journalist I like the device for it was a 13.3" 16x9 device that had a similar weight as the macbook 12" that is now discontinued, similar weight, no crappy keyboard, and a much bigger screen, that is 1.65" wider due to the 1.3" larger diagonal and different aspect ratio. This was 16% more screen real estate but the device was barely larger in size even with the bigger screen due to smaller bezels and so on.

It would be great to have a Lakefield option even if Lakefield is not delivering supposedly the 20 hours of battery life that the Qualcomm version is getting with a 69.7 watt hour. It would be outstanding to get a powerful enough machine for writting, portability, etc without the horrible apple keyboard.
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
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Intel should have gone to the Hexa path... 2 big strong cores and 4 small cores. No matter if it uses heatsink. They want to go heatsinkless but is no longer an option
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,645
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It would be great to have a Lakefield option even if Lakefield is not delivering supposedly the 20 hours of battery life that the Qualcomm version is getting with a 69.7 watt hour. It would be outstanding to get a powerful enough machine for writting, portability, etc without the horrible apple keyboard.
Reports are saying at the possibility of the Snapdragon version being cancelled for the Galaxy Book S. Considering the bad reviews for the Surface Pro X, Samsung may have decided to pull the plug on it.

Oh, and the Galaxy Book S is not using a 69.7WHr battery. The Project Athena based Core ix Samsung ultrabooks are, such as the Galaxy Book Ion and Galaxy Book Flex.

Intel says Lakefield is going to reduce SoC standby power by 10x and active power by 1.5-2x. Maybe it'll get close enough to ARM-based alternatives that it won't matter. The Tablet oriented Atom-based device were in the ballpark range for battery life. This will signal their return to the Tablet space after abandoning Broxton in late 2015.

The most important job the WoA effort is doing is to ensure Intel doesn't slack and continue to advance at a rapid rate.
 

Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
2,063
169
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Reports are saying at the possibility of the Snapdragon version being cancelled for the Galaxy Book S. Considering the bad reviews for the Surface Pro X, Samsung may have decided to pull the plug on it.

Oh, and the Galaxy Book S is not using a 69.7WHr battery. The Project Athena based Core ix Samsung ultrabooks are, such as the Galaxy Book Ion and Galaxy Book Flex.
Nods my mistake. I was using google and that was the instant reply google thought it was. I should have digged deeper for sometimes we forget how flawed that algorithmic automatic answers are.

But yeah that is sad if Samsung is canceling the Snapdragon version, then again poor performance is sad and low sales based on a device that does not satisfy the users is sad as well so maybe Samsung is making the right call if the Snapdragon chip underperforms and is not worth the sacrifices with things like drivers and so on.

The most important job the WoA effort is doing is to ensure Intel doesn't slack and continue to advance at a rapid rate.
Agreed, and this is the most important part I am responding to in this post.
 

Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
2,063
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"Hybrid technology" sure sounds like Lakefield.
Previous versions of the X1 folding pc tablet in the prototype stage were Lakefield. Sometimes via the people in the hands on being given the permission to say the word "Lakefield" and other times things like *air quotes* future intel silicon *air quotes.*

I am assuming the first version will be Lakefield, especially since they will be shipping it out prior to microsoft's redesign OS for foldables, offering the foldable OS sku at a later date.

-----

That said on this subject I want to know what is happening with Tigerlake.
(apologizing for being meandering)
  • [Old] Lakefield was a hybrid architecture with a mixture of cores that were Sunny Cove big core x1 plus 4 Tremont small cores. Sunny Cove big cores also being used in things like Intel Ice Lake 10nm chips. Tremont being the successor of Intel Atom now on 10 nm and a follow up on 14nm Goldmount Plus (which before that had the 14nm Goldmount, and the 14nm Airmont used in cherrytrail atom chips like the Atom x5 z8300), aka the 3rd new architecture for Atom after the most recent "Atom Tablet Chip."
  • [Old] We are going to see Intel Lakefield things into high performing tablet devices with a 7w tdp, and it will be targeting devices as thick as an iPad.
  • [New] Announced 01/06/2020 Intel announced Tigerlake and it will have many different skus and thus different thermals.
  • [New] Intel showed off Intel's Horseshoe Bend Device. A 17.3" foldable tablet but more importantly 7mm thick, 9w tdp, and no active cooling.
So my question for this Intel's Horseshoe Bend Device, is it going to be mixing big + small cores mixing some Tigerlake cores (replacing Sunny Cove aka Icelake cores) plus some smaller Atom cores similar to Intel Lakefield, or it going to be all big Tigerlake cores? I am curious even though these devices will cost more money than I am willing to spend on them.

Based off the name I would think it is all big cores but it is hard to keep track of Intel's codenames and naming scheme anymore.
 

amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
878
309
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2.6 mW? Wow, nice.

I hope those foldable PCs don't, you know, break. Like those Samsung devices.

I think idle and near idle wattage is more important than standby.

2mW standby is nice but I wonder if that doesn't get dwarfed by memory standby wattage.

What is total system standby for new laptops now? I leave a laptop a few days or week and the battery gets drained (often ruining the longevity). So many tablets and readers have been ruined this way since they don't intend for battery replacement in most tablets.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,645
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@Roland00Address @NTMBK

Intel confirmed in their press release X1 Yoga Fold is Lakefield and Horseshoe Bend concept is Tigerlake.

Lakefield at high end is 7W, but tweakerz roadmap talked about the chip being aimed at 3-5W. So 7W is akin to 25W mode on U chips and 3-5W is akin to 15W.

Horseshoe Bend having 9W is exactly the TDP Icelake Y and Tigerlake Y is at.

X1 Fold is coming middle of this year.

I think idle and near idle wattage is more important than standby.

2mW standby is nice but I wonder if that doesn't get dwarfed by memory standby wattage.
Modern laptops have what's called active standby. The aim is for S1 like wake up time but S3 like power use. Similar to tablets and smartphones.

The review for the Surface Pro 7 said you can wake it up with near zero delay while using less than 5% over an 8 hour period. The active standby, or called Modern Standby aims for <500ms wake up times.

Update: The Dell Concept Duet is also based on Lakefield.

I hope to see a convertible that's super light instead of all these dual screen/foldable screen devices.

They make the SoC super efficient and they decide to add a second screen. Plus the practically nonexistent foldable screen ecosystem means the devices are super expensive.
 
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Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
2,063
169
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@Roland00Address @NTMBK

Intel confirmed in their press release X1 Yoga Fold is Lakefield and Horseshoe Bend concept is Tigerlake.

Lakefield at high end is 7W, but tweakerz roadmap talked about the chip being aimed at 3-5W. So 7W is akin to 25W mode on U chips and 3-5W is akin to 15W.

Horseshoe Bend having 9W is exactly the TDP Icelake Y and Tigerlake Y is at.
Thank you for the info you provided.

I am still wondering if there are any "atom" small cores in Tigerlake, even though "hunch" wise it very much looks like this is not the case. [Aka I am craving confirmation even though it very much looks like they are only using big cores for the 9w tdp product.]

Thank you once again.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,645
2,525
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@Roland00Address

Pretty sure TigerLake samples have shown up in Geekbench or something else in the past, and they look to be 4c/8t chips just like Ice Lake.
Yup, and it shows 5 cores for Lakefield.

The only hybrid configuration is Lakefield. Looks like the brand name is Core processor with Hybrid technology.

Articles about the X1 Fold are saying it'll come in mid 2020 with regular Windows 10, but it needs Windows 10X to take full advantage of its power saving and be able to recognize the different cores.
 

RetroZombie

Senior member
Nov 5, 2019
464
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I think this product will be an flop.

I fail to understand how this product will be better than one of the current intel high performance four core cpus.

If the windows tablets where still a thing and miniaturization was key because of the lack of internal space maybe...
Because no way one high performance cpu core paired with four slow ones will be better than what intel already provide.

I wonder if android devices with intel are still around?
 

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