As of today, you owe $530,000

[Nebor]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/w...m?loc=interstitialskip

So, do you guys feel that you're getting half a million dollars worth of services from the government? Odds are, if you post here, you are not. Instead your money is being spent on those who don't work, so that they can afford all the things you can only dream (or work to get) of.

Of course, USA Today is a noted right wing propoganda machine (isn't it?) so there's no mention of war spending.

 

[bamacre]

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...id=52&threadid=2140534

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS2fI2p9iVs

 

[Genx87]

Well too be fair. Big business is also a beneficiary of these entitlment programs.
People expand the govt at record levels then wonder why the middle class disappears.

 

[Vette73]

You do know that corp. welfare pays a whole lot more then personal welfare. That and the majority on welfare are children, not even working adults.
more money is spent on corp welfare, military, etc... then personal "not working" welfare ever has.

I guess you did not get that part.



So are you gettign you 500,000 worth of corp goods?

 

[pstylesss]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
You do know that corp. welfare pays a whole lot more then personal welfare. That and the majority on welfare are children, not even working adults.
more money is spent on corp welfare, military, etc... then personal "not working" welfare ever has.

I guess you did not get that part.



So are you gettign you 500,000 worth of corp goods?

By corporate welfare do you mean tax cuts/breaks? If not, what exactly are you referring to?

 

[Nebor]

I wish I could just pay up now and not be responsible for the glut of stupid spending that's about to occur (UHC.) $500,000 is going to seem like a bargain in 10 years.

 

[dphantom]

Originally posted by: Nebor
I wish I could just pay up now and not be responsible for the glut of stupid spending that's about to occur (UHC.) $500,000 is going to seem like a bargain in 10 years.

Yes, it is going to get worse. Reminds me of Roman history where the last Emperors kept spending more and more on circuses to keep people happy. Human nature, the more government patronizes the citizenery, the more the citizens will demand.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Nebor
I wish I could just pay up now and not be responsible for the glut of stupid spending that's about to occur (UHC.) $500,000 is going to seem like a bargain in 10 years.

Hey, it took me about 30 seconds but shockingly enough I found several lies and convenient omissions in your post almost immediately. First of all, it's $455,000 per household, about $175,000 per person. So when you say YOU owe half a million dollars, this only works if you have some sort of conjoined twin.

Secondly, this debt is over the next SEVENTY FIVE YEARS. If you honestly asked me if I will receive $175,000 worth of government services in the next 75 years my answer would very likely be yes. Since median personal income is about $35,000, this debt over 75 years is less then 1% of your income. Even with the $455,000 figure household income in the US being about $48,000 this adds up to about 12% of your income. Sure that's not good, but it's actually a realistic assessment of the situation instead of some retarded post about how OH MY GOD YOU OWE HALF A MILLION DOLLARS RIGHT NOW GOVERNMENT IS BAD GO GRAB YOUR GUNS.

If you're worried about spending though you're lucky when it comes to UHC! if UHC is implemented as it has been in other countries we'll actually save tons and tons of money as a nation. Think about all the guns you can buy with the savings.

Edited for clarity and new facts!

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Nebor
I wish I could just pay up now and not be responsible for the glut of stupid spending that's about to occur (UHC.) $500,000 is going to seem like a bargain in 10 years.

Hey, it took me about 30 seconds but shockingly enough I found several lies and convenient omissions in your post almost immediately. First of all, it's $455,000 per household, about $175,000 per person. So when you say YOU owe half a million dollars, this only works if you have some sort of conjoined twin.

Secondly, this debt is over the next SEVENTY FIVE YEARS. If you honestly asked me if I will receive $175,000 worth of government services in the next 75 years my answer would very likely be yes. Since median personal income is about $35,000, this debt over 75 years is less then 1% of your income. Even with the $455,000 figure household income in the US being about $48,000 this adds up to about 12% of your income. Sure that's not good, but it's actually a realistic assessment of the situation instead of some retarded post about how OH MY GOD YOU OWE HALF A MILLION DOLLARS RIGHT NOW GOVERNMENT IS BAD GO GRAB YOUR GUNS.

If you're worried about spending though you're lucky when it comes to UHC! if UHC is implemented as it has been in other countries we'll actually save tons and tons of money as a nation. Think about all the guns you can buy with the savings.

Edited for clarity and new facts!

Where do you get 75 years? David Walker states that his numbers are spread over 32 years...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS2fI2p9iVs

 

[Thump553]

Tell me, how much do I owe for Bush's vanity trip that is destroying the USA and it's reputation around the world-ie, the Iraq invasion and occupation?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: Nebor
I wish I could just pay up now and not be responsible for the glut of stupid spending that's about to occur (UHC.) $500,000 is going to seem like a bargain in 10 years.

Yes, it is going to get worse. Reminds me of Roman history where the last Emperors kept spending more and more on circuses to keep people happy. Human nature, the more government patronizes the citizenery, the more the citizens will demand.

Haha well lets hope our leaders dont impersonate Nero and send our armed forces out in dancing gear to fight.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Where do you get 75 years? David Walker states that his numbers are spread over 32 years...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS2fI2p9iVs

From one of your own links you provided in the other thread.

Here

This statement shows that projected scheduled benefits exceed earmarked revenues by approximately $41 trillion in present value terms for the next 75-year period.?

Having been able to successfully verify that portion of the government?s total obligations, here?s the downside of this bright spot he identifies: ?Considering this projected gap in social insurance, in addition to reported liabilities (e.g., debt held by the public and federal employee and veterans benefits payable) and other implicit commitments and contingencies that the federal government has pledged to support, the federal government?s fiscal exposures [i.e., its aggregate direct and indirect debt obligations] totaled approximately $53 trillion as of September 30, 2007, up more than $2 trillion from September 30, 2006, and an increase of more than $32 trillion from about $20 trillion as of September 30, 2000. This translates into a current burden of about $175,000 per American or approximately $455,000 per American household.?

It's clearly referencing a 75 year period.

 

[digiram]

Originally posted by: Thump553
Tell me, how much do I owe for Bush's vanity trip that is destroying the USA and it's reputation around the world-ie, the Iraq invasion and occupation?

It's ok, he's given up golf for us.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: bamacre

Where do you get 75 years? David Walker states that his numbers are spread over 32 years...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS2fI2p9iVs

From one of your own links you provided in the other thread.

Here

This statement shows that projected scheduled benefits exceed earmarked revenues by approximately $41 trillion in present value terms for the next 75-year period.?

Having been able to successfully verify that portion of the government?s total obligations, here?s the downside of this bright spot he identifies: ?Considering this projected gap in social insurance, in addition to reported liabilities (e.g., debt held by the public and federal employee and veterans benefits payable) and other implicit commitments and contingencies that the federal government has pledged to support, the federal government?s fiscal exposures [i.e., its aggregate direct and indirect debt obligations] totaled approximately $53 trillion as of September 30, 2007, up more than $2 trillion from September 30, 2006, and an increase of more than $32 trillion from about $20 trillion as of September 30, 2000. This translates into a current burden of about $175,000 per American or approximately $455,000 per American household.?

It's clearly referencing a 75 year period.

Aww, I see, my mistake.

So, the numbers are spread over the next 75 years.

But what Walker is describing is what will happen by (roughly) the year 2040 if we don't start making some drastic changes soon. So, of course, we're going have massive problems before we get 75 years down the road.

 

[jackschmittusa]

What's a dollar going to be worth in 75 years? One of today's nickels?

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Nebor
I wish I could just pay up now and not be responsible for the glut of stupid spending that's about to occur (UHC.) $500,000 is going to seem like a bargain in 10 years.

Hey, it took me about 30 seconds but shockingly enough I found several lies and convenient omissions in your post almost immediately. First of all, it's $455,000 per household, about $175,000 per person. So when you say YOU owe half a million dollars, this only works if you have some sort of conjoined twin.

Secondly, this debt is over the next SEVENTY FIVE YEARS. If you honestly asked me if I will receive $175,000 worth of government services in the next 75 years my answer would very likely be yes. Since median personal income is about $35,000, this debt over 75 years is less then 1% of your income. Even with the $455,000 figure household income in the US being about $48,000 this adds up to about 12% of your income. Sure that's not good, but it's actually a realistic assessment of the situation instead of some retarded post about how OH MY GOD YOU OWE HALF A MILLION DOLLARS RIGHT NOW GOVERNMENT IS BAD GO GRAB YOUR GUNS.

If you're worried about spending though you're lucky when it comes to UHC! if UHC is implemented as it has been in other countries we'll actually save tons and tons of money as a nation. Think about all the guns you can buy with the savings.

Edited for clarity and new facts!

If you have a house wife and since children can't work per person is a worthless number. Household figure is more accurate. Nice spin though.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Hey, it took me about 30 seconds but shockingly enough I found several lies and convenient omissions in your post almost immediately. First of all, it's $455,000 per household, about $175,000 per person. So when you say YOU owe half a million dollars, this only works if you have some sort of conjoined twin.

Secondly, this debt is over the next SEVENTY FIVE YEARS. If you honestly asked me if I will receive $175,000 worth of government services in the next 75 years my answer would very likely be yes. Since median personal income is about $35,000, this debt over 75 years is less then 1% of your income. Even with the $455,000 figure household income in the US being about $48,000 this adds up to about 12% of your income. Sure that's not good, but it's actually a realistic assessment of the situation instead of some retarded post about how OH MY GOD YOU OWE HALF A MILLION DOLLARS RIGHT NOW GOVERNMENT IS BAD GO GRAB YOUR GUNS.

If you're worried about spending though you're lucky when it comes to UHC! if UHC is implemented as it has been in other countries we'll actually save tons and tons of money as a nation. Think about all the guns you can buy with the savings.

Edited for clarity and new facts!

If you have a house wife and since children can't work per person is a worthless number. Household figure is more accurate. Nice spin though.

Can you read? Do you even know what spin is?

I listed both personal income and household income. I mentioned personal income because I am willing to bet a large percentage of people on this board (myself included) have neither a wife nor children, and so to say that we all owe $455,000 is a wild exaggeration made specifically for shock effect.

Of course this all ignores the real point of my post that you probably missed, (as it is evident you didn't read it) which is that this number is based over 75 years. Not only that, but you mention that children can't work. Well a child born today might not be working, but he or she WILL be working for the vast majority of the 75 year period referenced and the same goes for any housewife unless she specifically chooses not to work, in which case... duh. Any other pearls of wisdom?

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Hey, it took me about 30 seconds but shockingly enough I found several lies and convenient omissions in your post almost immediately. First of all, it's $455,000 per household, about $175,000 per person. So when you say YOU owe half a million dollars, this only works if you have some sort of conjoined twin.

Secondly, this debt is over the next SEVENTY FIVE YEARS. If you honestly asked me if I will receive $175,000 worth of government services in the next 75 years my answer would very likely be yes. Since median personal income is about $35,000, this debt over 75 years is less then 1% of your income. Even with the $455,000 figure household income in the US being about $48,000 this adds up to about 12% of your income. Sure that's not good, but it's actually a realistic assessment of the situation instead of some retarded post about how OH MY GOD YOU OWE HALF A MILLION DOLLARS RIGHT NOW GOVERNMENT IS BAD GO GRAB YOUR GUNS.

If you're worried about spending though you're lucky when it comes to UHC! if UHC is implemented as it has been in other countries we'll actually save tons and tons of money as a nation. Think about all the guns you can buy with the savings.

Edited for clarity and new facts!

If you have a house wife and since children can't work per person is a worthless number. Household figure is more accurate. Nice spin though.

Can you read? Do you even know what spin is?

I listed both personal income and household income. I mentioned personal income because I am willing to bet a large percentage of people on this board (myself included) have neither a wife nor children, and so to say that we all owe $455,000 is a wild exaggeration made specifically for shock effect.

Of course this all ignores the real point of my post that you probably missed, (as it is evident you didn't read it) which is that this number is based over 75 years. Not only that, but you mention that children can't work. Well a child born today might not be working, but he or she WILL be working for the vast majority of the 75 year period referenced and the same goes for any housewife unless she specifically chooses not to work, in which case... duh. Any other pearls of wisdom?

Is the dollar amount Present Value or absolute dollars? Future value?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Can you read? Do you even know what spin is?

I listed both personal income and household income. I mentioned personal income because I am willing to bet a large percentage of people on this board (myself included) have neither a wife nor children, and so to say that we all owe $455,000 is a wild exaggeration made specifically for shock effect.

Of course this all ignores the real point of my post that you probably missed, (as it is evident you didn't read it) which is that this number is based over 75 years. Not only that, but you mention that children can't work. Well a child born today might not be working, but he or she WILL be working for the vast majority of the 75 year period referenced and the same goes for any housewife unless she specifically chooses not to work, in which case... duh. Any other pearls of wisdom?

Is the dollar amount Present Value or absolute dollars? Future value?

I'm going to assume you mean dollars based on a fixed date of value. The $53 trillion is in today's dollars. (did you read the article?) The incomes are in 2006 dollars actually though so if anything the incomes should be adjusted up some which would make the long term impact even less.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ

By corporate welfare do you mean tax cuts/breaks? If not, what exactly are you referring to?

He (and we) are talking about the corporations feeding at the federal trough:

http://www.cato.org/pubs/handbook/hb105-9.html

http://www.progress.org/banneker/cw.html

http://www.corporations.org/welfare/

http://www.thirdworldtraveler....CorpWelfare_Nader.html

http://www.taxpolicy.com/cwsearch/