As if Iraq doesn't have enough problems. Tanks in the green zone

[Hayabusa Rider]

ongoing situation.

This comes after Maliki refuses to go. He may be using forces loyal to him to stay in power, or else it's a remarkable coincidence.

With ISIS posing a greater threat with each passing day the Iraqis don't need their poorly working government to collapse entirely right now.

 

[PlanetJosh]

So the constitution says Sunnis are supposed to have more of a share of the government than they currently have. And so this is a reason why Maliki must go. Since when do countries follow their own constitutions? If America can't follow its constitution how is the U.S. supposed to have an leverage in the situation? Unless it's military action?

Edit: Er I meant Sunnis not Shiites. Corrected it.

 

[kage69]

In my opinion, it's now just a matter of time before he's taken out with a bomb or a member of his entourage or security detail has a sudden change in priorities. I just don't see people having the patience to sort out constitutional issues when ISIL is rounding up females for slavery and exterminating infants and toddlers.


Ma salama Maliki. Tick tock, tick tock...

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Yup its a shit show amateur hour. I still can't figure out why they have made no attempt to push back ISIS? Lack of leadership, lack of trust, wanting to see government fail. Makes no damn sense to me.

 

[nextJin]

Yup its a shit show amateur hour. I still can't figure out why they have made no attempt to push back ISIS? Lack of leadership, lack of trust, wanting to see government fail. Makes no damn sense to me.

It's not because they don't want to it's because they can't. The IP and ISF is and always will be a shit show. We trained them for years and the moment they do not have American support they lay down their arms and run.

They have zero loyalties and can barely function as an Army (ISF) or Police Force (IP).

Anyone who thought our intervention was going to change fuck all is ignorant as hell. We sure as shit do not need to go back in. (And yet we are)

 

[trenchfoot]

So I guess what Iraq really needs is to have another guy like Saddam come along and terrorize everybody into behaving themselves AND be a well behaved western influenced puppet like the Shah was.

I say this only because nothing else seems to have worked there.

 

[Whiskey16]

So I guess what Iraq really needs is to have another guy like Saddam come along and terrorize everybody into behaving themselves AND be a well behaved western influenced puppet like the Shah was.

I say this only because nothing else seems to have worked there.

You've learned nothing, eh?

Uhhhmmm, since long ago, that region could possibly have found much greater stability if foreign powers stopped trying to impose their centuries of will and geographic ignorance to 'unify' for what self determination of people are still instigated to battle against... The USA is a most recent and the devastating cause for f***ups.

A very brief synopsis:

The Ottoman Turks had failed to unify Iraq, which continued as a hodge-podge of tenuously-ruled cities, with various, disparate tribal allegiances. This would cause Iraq to continue as an unstable political entity upon the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire after WWI, and contribute to the ongoing and continuing difficulty in Iraq becoming a cohesive state. The Shi’a-Sunni divide was also further compounded by the Ottomans, who favored Sunni Muslims while sidelining Shi'a in all aspects of society.

Foreign powers through to Sunni Saddam Hussein and his following polar opposite of the Shi'a al-Maliki, regular methods to retain power have been by playing one national group against the other, until the regular disintegration of power. Unity was to be in physical borders and top-down leadership myopia -- only.

Centuries old lessons of what has failed remain repeated. Right up to the USA's most recent breaking of Iraq and forced removal of all Sunnis from power and the military... The USA directly fostered and created the disgruntled militias and Sunni populace that recently insignificant groups such as ISIS gained to abuse.

 

[trenchfoot]

You've learned nothing, eh?

Uhhhmmm, since long ago, that region could possibly have found much greater stability if foreign powers stopped trying to impose their centuries of will and geographic ignorance to 'unify' for what self determination of people are still instigated to battle against... The USA is a most recent and the devastating cause for f***ups.

A very brief synopsis:

Foreign powers through to Sunni Saddam Hussein and his following polar opposite of the Shi'a al-Maliki, regular methods to retain power have been by playing one national group against the other, until the regular disintegration of power. Unity was to be in physical borders and top-down leadership myopia -- only.

Centuries old lessons of what has failed remain repeated. Right up to the USA's most recent breaking of Iraq and forced removal of all Sunnis from power and the military... The USA directly fostered and created the disgruntled militias and Sunni populace that recently insignificant groups such as ISIS gained to abuse.

Although I'm well aware of what you're referring to, and something that I somewhat agree with you on, I'm more of a realist. So long as we have vested interests in the area we are going to be involved one way or another.

It was in that light that I framed my commentary around.

 

[Genx87]

Yup its a shit show amateur hour. I still can't figure out why they have made no attempt to push back ISIS? Lack of leadership, lack of trust, wanting to see government fail. Makes no damn sense to me.

Their army is effing terrible. Hard to push anything back when your army flee their posts at first combat. Leaving the enemy your heavy equipment which they use in the next battle. Trying to figure out Maliki's angle on this one. He is fighting over a dying govt. Even if he manages to stay in power what does he gain? ISIS will gladly put his head on a stake in the green zone.

 

[Whiskey16]

So long as we have vested interests in the area we are going to be involved one way or another.

Very true. From an ethical and moral standpoint, the US is directly responsible for the extremist mess and Iraqi power vacuums that have been created.

Though, a few in the current administration and high diplomatic positions (notably current USA to the UN Ambassador Samantha Power) were on past records for theses condemning US inaction and out-right obstructionism to beefing up pre-existing missions such as the start of the Rwandan genocide, rather than humanitarian motivation, I do believe the current limited move is to cheque the IS from controlling the dominant oil production in northern Iraq.

 

[peonyu]

You've learned nothing, eh?

Uhhhmmm, since long ago, that region could possibly have found much greater stability if foreign powers stopped trying to impose their centuries of will and geographic ignorance to 'unify' for what self determination of people are still instigated to battle against... The USA is a most recent and the devastating cause for f***ups.

A very brief synopsis:

Foreign powers through to Sunni Saddam Hussein and his following polar opposite of the Shi'a al-Maliki, regular methods to retain power have been by playing one national group against the other, until the regular disintegration of power. Unity was to be in physical borders and top-down leadership myopia -- only.

Centuries old lessons of what has failed remain repeated. Right up to the USA's most recent breaking of Iraq and forced removal of all Sunnis from power and the military... The USA directly fostered and created the disgruntled militias and Sunni populace that recently insignificant groups such as ISIS gained to abuse.

The middle east has been a shithole ever since Islam took over. If that retarded religion and its crazy inducing effects were ever removed from that region then perhaps Iraq could become another Babylon, instead of the zealot ridden mess it is now.

 

[Nebor]

So I guess what Iraq really needs is to have another guy like Saddam come along and terrorize everybody into behaving themselves AND be a well behaved western influenced puppet like the Shah was.

I say this only because nothing else seems to have worked there.

They respect only power & brutality, it's how Sadaam kept everything under control. How many suicide bombings were going on under his regime? How many are going on in areas under IS control now?

 

[Nebor]

Very true. From an ethical and moral standpoint, the US is directly responsible for the extremist mess and Iraqi power vacuums that have been created.

Though, a few in the current administration and high diplomatic positions (notably current USA to the UN Ambassador Samantha Power) were on past records for theses condemning US inaction and out-right obstructionism to beefing up pre-existing missions such as the start of the Rwandan genocide, rather than humanitarian motivation, I do believe the current limited move is to cheque the IS from controlling the dominant oil production in northern Iraq.

That's the "vested interest" that he was referring to.

 

[Whiskey16]

The middle east has been a shithole ever since Islam took over. If that retarded religion and its crazy inducing effects were ever removed from that region...

We get it. You hate and deride all Muslims.

peonyu, you're just another of the common hate spewing neo-nazis that have become endemic to this forum.

Guys, click his profile for the taste test he presents:

peonyu AnandTech profile:

STOP HATE CRIME

CLOSE DOWN ALL MOSQUES, MASDRASSAS, AND ISLAMIC BOOKSHOPS

The Germans certainly acted and fully attempted that against Jews. Now-a-days, segments of society choose to target their complete vilification of Muslims in very much the same way.

Incitement to supremacist hatred.

peonyu = hate inciting pollution and an example of extremism that keeps more decent folk from bothering with this forum.

 

[Jaskalas]

Yup its a shit show amateur hour. I still can't figure out why they have made no attempt to push back ISIS? Lack of leadership, lack of trust, wanting to see government fail. Makes no damn sense to me.

ISIS is largely concentrated in populations that favor it. There's a real back and forth reported in other locations when they try to advance. So it's really a question of how any military conquers hostile territory, without killing thousands and being derided for claims of genocide?

If the United States can't invade and bring peace to a hostile land, why would the Iraqis fair any better? It's a serious standing question if anyone can or will advance and retake the land ISIS currently holds. Maybe no one will defeat them.

 

[uclabachelor]

Watch PBS's Losing Iraq. It's the best insight on how the shitstorm unfolded.

 

[Binarycow]

It's not because they don't want to it's because they can't. The IP and ISF is and always will be a shit show. We trained them for years and the moment they do not have American support they lay down their arms and run.

They have zero loyalties and can barely function as an Army (ISF) or Police Force (IP).

Anyone who thought our intervention was going to change fuck all is ignorant as hell. We sure as shit do not need to go back in. (And yet we are)

Sounds like the South Vietnamese army 40 something years ago.

"... I will not send American boys to do a job that Asian boys ought to be doing for themselves..."

Full Metal Jacket


It was true 40-50 years ago and it is still as true today when applied to the situation going on in Iraq.