As I grow older, I get more liberal

[imported_Rampage]

Not in everyway though. I vote Republican (especially lately with all the polarization, I'm much more attracted to the right than the left as we witness who each side "really" is).
But I hold some libertarian views, IMO how can a libertarian be wrong?
Its strict constitutionalism.
They can't be wrong.

But I dont think strict constitutionalism is necessarily the best way to move America forward either, which is why I would vote for a conservative or a liberal.

As I've grown older, I see how much bullsh!t alot of things are in the nation, like police brutality ect

I believe we grant them certain power to do their jobs.. but they need to concentrate on hardcore criminals not a jaywalking kid.
Just pushing them around, and thats typically all the do.. theres way to much of that crap at least.

So I support the ACLU in many of their endeavors. But detest our bloated legal system, aka the get rich quick scheme for lawyers.





So I suppose I'm a liberal Republican, as religous stands dont allow me to vote for a democrat (at least one that supports abortion, among other things I have moral obligations to oppose).
The libertarian thing, while great and very hard to argue against.. constitutionalism just isnt the end all argument IMO.

The seething hatred for Bush and anyone who voted for him (myself) is quite the turn off though.. I dont see that stuff as productive.

Even though for liberal people it might feel good.. they arent really making any difference in this forum to change hearts and minds.

Seriously.
Stuff like this

Bush Says he can't do his job with all these "investigations" making noise 10-20-05 Pages: 1 2 Last
Awwwwww I think he is going to cry.

Its crap like that. No one is attracted to that. "Awww hes going to cry"

Typical GOP slime ...VA Gov race....Kilgore (R) has ad that proclaims Kaine (D) defended a murderer

Wow. "typical GOP slime"..


I think there are alot of people out there like me, they arent so much a conservative or much of a real republican.. we just pick the less repulsive side.

Anyone out there think along these lines?
PS. Bush is a good president, and we'll see how the rest of his term turns out but could be one of the greats like Reagan.
The egotistical, haughty left also attacked him.. look how that worked out, regarded up there with Lincoln and FDR now.

/awaits the liberals to smear me and my thoughts that dont fit their perfect mold, sometimes i think they want everyone to be some liberal zombie

Its the far left that needs to change their ways, either that or the democrats need to start rejecting them and their "move-on.org" influence.

2cents. Although no one here is going to change their minds on anything at all, but I am openminded and will listen to arguments. I pretty much stated in this post how i see constitutionalism, religon, and the seething hatred coming out of the left (its disgusting and far beyond what the right is doing.. at least from what I'm seeing).


You see Ann Coulters attacking Bush, but how often do you see a liberal attacking one of their boys like Kerry?
Theres no diversity of thought in the left wing. Thats unattractive to people like myself who could otherwise be influenced.

 

[Steeplerot]

I don't know about others but I bash on clinton who I detest, have said kerry is a has-been and would not have voted for him if CA had a choice for me to vote for nader.

I think the dems are totally out of touch and remember bashing the DNC awhile back when they called me begging for dough (they are totally out of touch with the left about the war espically)

Vote third party then, I agree neither have a clue it seems what is on the minds of real americans on the whole.

 

[imported_Rampage]

I like the libertarian view, but I agree with liberals and conservatives that strict constitutionalism isnt the way to move forward.

Some liberal and conservative movements to change the nation are good IMO, even while not being strictly constitional or traditional.

Gay marriage :thumbsup:
Patriot Act :thumbsup: (we have to do something, and I havent heard a better idea yet to protect us?)
Healthcare reform (though maybe not specifically "socialized healthcare", but some sort of change :thumbsup:
Legal reform :thumbsup:
American generosity :thumbsup:
The fact our military does humanitarian aid (not just a fighting force, but a peace keeping force as well) :thumbsup:
An all volunteer army (and a nation with healthy enough character that people are still proud to join it) :thumbsup:
Privatization :thumbsup:
War in Iraq :thumbsdown: (but I still support the overall cause COMPLETELY as my brother is heading to Iraq and I would never disgrace the cause or what hes doing, I do feel we are spreading freedom which is one of the good qualities about America.. and we have to finish what we started, no doubt.)
War on Terror :thumbsup:
Legislating from the bench :thumbsdown:
Decriminalizing pot :thumbsup:
Releasing every prisoner on marijauna charges from prison (non-violent) :thumbsup:

Overall I'm proud to be American. So I cant really ever vote Democrat.
Its a shame really because I'm not really that much of a Republican, I'm just repulsed by the hatred from the left thesedays, and the lack of intellectual diversity on the left.
Dissent from the leftist status quo and you are some ignoramus..
oh and being a leftist and Christian? Good luck with that one. :disgust: Maybe if you want to get treated like a POS by your political peers.

I for one am very sick of gay bashing in this nation. I'm tired of racism. I saw a black man walking down the street the other day and a bunch of white kids were yelling at him from a porch calling him Kanye and stuff. I detest that.
I know it goes both ways, but I'm amazed sometimes at the white disgust with african americans and their ways.

Live and let live man.

I'm tired of the useless police picking on people like street thugs. Its time to reduce police power and authority. And they need to be shooting plastic bullets, not real bullets. No reason for the cops to be shooting people who havent had a trial yet.
They arent God, they dont decide who lives and who dies.
You can disable someone with a bean bag or plastic bullet just fine and defend yourself.

I'm also tired of the Christians who say how people can live their life. I'm a Christian, and a devout one..
but my POV is that this is planet earth ok.. we have to all live here together, God is real and the bible IS true.. but God doesnt live here, for now we have to get along and not persecute each other.

I highly doubt God wants us beating, killing and discriminating against gays. So I refuse to be a part of that movement that homosexuality is "evil". Its probably not natural ect.. but I have gay friends and they are beautiful people.

Being like "hey I'm a christian and you are wrong to do that".. thats a polarizing thing to do. It turns people off as much as this forums culture of hatred against Bush does to people.

/shrug

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: southpawuni

I don't see why voting dem = no religion, yes lefties are a bit arrogant towards them atm but it is not your garden variety ones.

It's the type that think the only exit strategy from iraq is the rapture if you know what I mean. I can't even think of a atheist democrat in high office.

The major bush slamming is becasue of how much flack has been pointed at lefties and the appaling state of our country becasue of him. (and of course the dodgy 2000 election really got under peoples skin of course)

They have loosed every attack dog they can at the left and people who have always been decent americans do not take well to being called commies etc, when our strongest leaders against communism and the soviet union have been democrats. (imo JFK cuban missle crisis era)

Think back to bush sr. not many liked him, reagan too, but bush sr. was not calling them f@gs commies and other nasties. -it's bush jr. who has started the division.

When these hatemongers are gone it is gong to take awhile to heal this country, thats for sure.

In the meantime you are not alone, just another political orphan. -sign of the times it seems.

 

[imported_Rampage]

You are interesting.

But ya this girl I've been seeing, I took her out to eat and started quizzing me on politics/religon (great).
She asks me if I take the bible literally and I say yes for the most part. And she calls me an idiot! LOL

This coming from someone who is a "catholic" that doesnt believe that Jesus is the son of God. I told her later on in the night after she tried to find out who i voted for ect that she seemed very confused to me..
then she admitted it lol

shes artistic.. big time.. punk rawkish and totally liberal.. which is cool with me
i just dont get the litmus test. shes got some sweet tats on her arms, wants to finish it up and get full sleeves but i dont know if im totally down with that or not but she can do what she wants, she alerady has huge forearm tats n stuff
/shrug
i told her i didnt know she was looking for a vice presidential candidate..

i just dont get it though, im willing to listen to her point of view and consider it but being called an idiot.. it just seems like thats kind of the culture from the left now?
maybe im wrong, and i have seen the same sort of egotistical crap come from the right, just usually not from ppl off the street

its unattractive though, the insults..
i dont disagree with smoe of her views, and i like to take the opportunity to learn from anyone


i told her "you ask any question, you could get any answer".. so to be turned off by my answer and retaliate is not cool IMO

either way shes calling me everynight to go out to the bar so i must not be that bad.

i think she was a bit thrown off to meet someone who is willing ot listen instead of constantly preaching some bullsh!t message

about dems/religon.. howard dean is right in saying they need to court more people like me. im not sure they'll really appear "intellectually diverse" until they start accepting more religous people and their POV

my Christian religon makes me more liberal than I would be if I wasnt Christian. Without doubt.
My nature is not so peaceful, or accepting.. its the bible and its lessons that showed me how to love all mankind.
The fact that God loves everyone, and that you are supposed to live your life like Jesus did introduce a way of living to me that I would have a hard time justifying in my mind otherwise. Because people seem to be really horrible sometimes.

Im a methodist but i dont really like churches, at least modern churches..
and i never bring crap up in public conversation like religon/politics like that girl im seeing, it just doesnt seem like a good way to build friendship?

im going to accept her no matter what her views are, so why even bring it up

if someone is closed minded enough to reject me because i think the world was created in 7 days then i guess i dont want to talk to her anyway.. thankfully she didnt let that get in the way of who i am


edit-
its just ironic to get judged by someone with tats all over their arms.. obviously they are not the norm.. so if i dont fit their norm now im a freak?
its no different than christians judging people. its wrong.

you can say 'you need to change the way you live' or 'thats not healthy' but to lay down ultimate judgemnt that a human being is an idiot or hopeless i dont agree with.

everyone has hope and if God is the ultimate truth, then people will find that out before they die (so i believe at least). in the meantime, i think i'd rather get along with those people, we all need to do that.

 

[imported_Rampage]

i should add that its my religon that actually makes me anti-authority

if i wasnt christian, basically the state would be god to me. it would have too, who else would have higher authority?

to me though, these government people and their laws, and their land they "own".. i accept none of that

no one has the right to judge me and i get a kick out of judges and authority figures who feel like they have some kind of power over me

its amazing too how we own land when its God's land.. we're just squatting.

i look at things differently than other people but i'd be a total statist if not for my religous views.
which would mean that no matter who was in control, libs or cons.. i'd pretty much view them as having ultimate authority over me.

i think thats a very dangerous proposition and thesis to accept.


for me, God gives me freedom.. not the US government.

in a godless world i dont see a healthy cycle.. the USA is your authority then? PASS
The UN? PASS!
the police? HAH! pass!!!!

mortals are just shadows passing by. its amusing to see them, whether they are political advocates or judges, or police officers pretending to hold some authority

that works both ways i guess against all politics

politics are bullsh!t. theres no doubt about that.
all the fud in this forum, and across the entire politcal spectrum across the world is seriously just a bunch of power mongering

like that post "i think bush is goign to cry!".. what a waste of time seriously
no hearts or minds are being changed by that.
and if the intent isnt to change hearts and minds.. why post it? just to spread fear and hatred?
ya thats cool :thumbsdown:


anyway i need to finish getting ready im heading out with my liberal 'girlfriend' (i dont like anything ever being official), to a glam-smut party

im not dressing up tho. i had a rough night last night and im not really in the mood to go drinking again ect but o well i dont really have anything better to do

 

[Steeplerot]

Well, if she has a hangup about christianity she may have a reason, some christians can be hyper-judgemental to a strong willed independent woman which is who she sounds like.

Best bet is to keep the religion on the down-low at first, you don't sound like the preachy type, if the subject comes up, bring up some aspect to talk about that you have something in common.

May Day, punk type girls usually like female god type stuff, and may day is a celebration for pagans and christians can come together for, halloween is a roaring good time also, nothing like going egging with that punk rock love -don't get your ass busted though lol

I think your on the right track with listening, women love a man that listens, you may even learn something it takes a pretty strong willed person to pull off being a punk rocker day to day in this day and age.

Sorry I don't have more time but I must meet my own punk rock girl at the bar. Just keep your mind open, listen to her and be yourself. (People who make a point of standing out have a knack for seeing someone putting on a front a mile away.) Works for me. -been dating punk girls for almost 17 years now and I wouldn't touch a "normie" with a 10 foot pole.

Enjoy yourself and have a kickass time, that's what punk rock is all about at the end of the day.

 

[Ferocious]

So I suppose I'm a liberal Republican, as religous stands dont allow me to vote for a democrat (at least one that supports abortion, among other things I have moral obligations to oppose).

Which Dems support abortion? I just curious if you can name one.

The Libertarian and Democratic stance on the aboriton issue is the same. Leave government the hell out of it!

I and my wife are vehemently against abortion in nearly every conceivable case. And we are both pro-choice.

 

[Thump553]

I'm an independent voter who has nearly always split his voting ticket. There certainly USED to be such a thing as a liberal Republican, and was in fact the dominant form of the party, at least here in New England.

But given the outright radicalism of the present GOP leadership, coupled with its hypocrisy (decrying big government while presiding over the largest (and most ineffective growth in government ever) and utter fiscal irresponsibility, I view the present GOP party as a pack of hyenas feeding off the carcass of the government and our country.

Personally I feel that the right to privacy is one of our paramount rights today.

 

[ToeJam13]

I consider myself a Libertarian-leaning person. As I have gotten older, I have grown to dislike government intervention in our lives.

My view is of a semi-minimalist role of government that provides infrastructure, education, safety, national standards and management of resources.

I am disappointed that people in government attempt to push their religious or ideological belief system of how one should live their personal life when it does not harm the well-being of communities or the nation as a whole. Abortion, sexual preference, drug use and unsavory speech should not be considered criminal activities.

I am also disappointed in how our modern education system has fallen into decay. Why do districts in rich areas receive more money than those in poorer areas of a state? How have political interest groups pushing politically correct agendas gained so much power? Why have we allowed the concept of allowing no student to be left behind to hamstring the education of those who excel and lead the pact? Why have we forced all students to follow a ridged mold rather than guide students into an area of expertise based on their interests and base skills? How have teachers fallen from a revered profession into a disgruntled group that must fight and beg just to stay above poverty? How have professors in higher education done just the opposite, receiving huge sums of money while allowing undergraduates to teach their classes for them?

How has the infrastructure in this country fallen into disarray? Roads are over capacity, mass transit is a joke, rail lines are being decommissioned rather than expanded, clean water for drinking and agriculture in the west is becoming more and more scarce, airports are at capacity, levees and dikes are falling into disrepair, and our power grid is outdated & over capacity.

Why is America policing the world when we should be policing ourselves? If airport security were half as good as the security at our nation's casinos, 9-11 never would have occurred. Why are the rights of all Americans being compromised at airports when officials should use profiling techniques that have been proven effective? How can police be effective as separate organizations that fight over authority when they can be unified and streamlined much like the RCMP in Canada? How can laws be followed when they are obscure, obtuse, localized, narrow in focus and impractical?

 

[imported_Rampage]

Originally posted by: Ferocious

So I suppose I'm a liberal Republican, as religous stands dont allow me to vote for a democrat (at least one that supports abortion, among other things I have moral obligations to oppose).

Which Dems support abortion? I just curious if you can name one.

The Libertarian and Democratic stance on the aboriton issue is the same. Leave government the hell out of it!

I and my wife are vehemently against abortion in nearly every conceivable case. And we are both pro-choice.

I don't know who and who doesnt support abortion.
But I would contend that not stopping abortion is supporting it. I dont see how else you could look at it.. you can point to "leave the gov't out!" all day long, but everyone knows the democrats are doing that to get brownie points with libertarian leaning people and still pleasing the far left.
It sounds like a great stance, for sure.
Like i said though, I dont believe the "leave gov't out" arguement. I believe in big government like both the major parties do.


Im not against abortion, I'm against abortions without parental notification and I'm against rampant abortions.
I think it should be a very strict process to go thru and get an abortion.
Major problem with rampant abortion. I'm a believer in the "mothers health" reason.
But I get very disgusted when people start talking about "quality of life" issues. Thats just pure vile, and damn evil if you ask me to justify terminating a baby. We've probably already terminated a couple Albert Einsteins, no doubt in my mind.

If I dont end up getting married and having kids, I decided Im going to go to planned parenthood and stop a girl from having an abortion and raise the children as my own. I love kids and it hurts my heart to think that there are unwarranted, unnecessary abortions happening.
Rampant abortions ARE a crime against humanity IMO.

Gov't doesnt even have to be involved, its just straight up wrong. I do think it needs regulated in some way.
We regulate some corporate industry, but we dont regulate ending a human life?
You say leave gov't out of it.. then leave gov't out of all of it.
But gov't has more of a place regulating abortion as its a wee bit more of a serious issue (life/death ) than some industry.
If we're all going to agree on leaving gov't the heck out of stuff, lets keep it out of everything k.
This country is so fked up on our priorities.


I dont think rampant abortions are any more of a right than shooting someone in the face.


I consider myself incredibly lenient on this issue.. it should be an option.. with A LOT of red tape.

 

[IdaGno]

"As I grow older, I get more liberal"

Good on you & welcome to the club! Flexibility of mind is a very good thing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/daily/may98/goldwater072894.htm

On Hillary Clinton, who was an ardent Goldwater supporter in 1964: "If he'd let his wife run business, I think he'd be better off. ... I just like the way she acts. I've never met her, but I sent her a bag of chili, and she invited me to come to the White House some night and said she'd cook chili for me. Someday, maybe."

 

[imported_Rampage]

Originally posted by: ToeJam13
I consider myself a Libertarian-leaning person. As I have gotten older, I have grown to dislike government intervention in our lives.

My view is of a semi-minimalist role of government that provides infrastructure, education, safety, national standards and management of resources.

Actually the constitution doesnt say anything about government having a hand in education.
Our country was never based on public schools to begin with.. and its clear why, theyve failed.

Abortion, sexual preference, drug use and unsavory speech should not be considered criminal activities.

My POV on abortion is in a lengthy post above.

Why have we forced all students to follow a ridged mold rather than guide students into an area of expertise based on their interests and base skills?

I agree. The last two years of high school should be more specialized training. Basically a community college type thing.
Either that or they can opt out for the military for two years. Either way you'll be much better set for the real world than the current system.
Like I said though, I'm proud of our military for the humanitarian aid they do.
This is truley a great nation, if you ask me.

How have teachers fallen from a revered profession into a disgruntled group that must fight and beg just to stay above poverty? How have professors in higher education done just the opposite, receiving huge sums of money while allowing undergraduates to teach their classes for them?

Hah! Good point!
Our university system is working great though. Its the K-12 that is a LONG LONG period of time and there is just not enough being learned in that time period.. esp when you have high school kids that can't read.
Thats total bullsh!t.
I blame the teachers. You dont pass kids on who cant read. I'm sorry.

How has the infrastructure in this country fallen into disarray? Roads are over capacity, mass transit is a joke, rail lines are being decommissioned rather than expanded, clean water for drinking and agriculture in the west is becoming more and more scarce, airports are at capacity, levees and dikes are falling into disrepair, and our power grid is outdated & over capacity.

Yeeshorz.
I dont know if its the End of Days yet...

Why is America policing the world when we should be policing ourselves? If airport security were half as good as the security at our nation's casinos, 9-11 never would have occurred. Why are the rights of all Americans being compromised at airports when officials should use profiling techniques that have been proven effective? How can police be effective as separate organizations that fight over authority when they can be unified and streamlined much like the RCMP in Canada? How can laws be followed when they are obscure, obtuse, localized, narrow in focus and impractical?

Its just hard to get everything right.
Theres always going to be room for improvement. and your complaints are valid.
I just prefer to concentrate on both the good and bad with the country.
You are nearing an apocolyptic vision here.

 

[Pabster]

Why is this turning in to a debate over abortion?

 

[imported_Rampage]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Well, if she has a hangup about christianity she may have a reason, some christians can be hyper-judgemental to a strong willed independent woman which is who she sounds like.

Best bet is to keep the religion on the down-low at first, you don't sound like the preachy type, if the subject comes up, bring up some aspect to talk about that you have something in common.

May Day, punk type girls usually like female god type stuff, and may day is a celebration for pagans and christians can come together for, halloween is a roaring good time also, nothing like going egging with that punk rock love -don't get your ass busted though lol

I think your on the right track with listening, women love a man that listens, you may even learn something it takes a pretty strong willed person to pull off being a punk rocker day to day in this day and age.

Sorry I don't have more time but I must meet my own punk rock girl at the bar. Just keep your mind open, listen to her and be yourself. (People who make a point of standing out have a knack for seeing someone putting on a front a mile away.) Works for me. -been dating punk girls for almost 17 years now and I wouldn't touch a "normie" with a 10 foot pole.

Enjoy yourself and have a kickass time, that's what punk rock is all about at the end of the day.

The glam-smut party was crazy. I didnt dress up but i know what im going as next time.. a leprecaun pimp.

It was cool, some crazy "costumes".
I helped my punk rawk girl (friend) get ready. Pretty much I cut the electrical tape she put over her nipples.

The duct tape skirt was killer too. I'm totally starting to fall for this girl. I think it sounds like shes had it kinda rough.. I dont think guys have treated her very well.
I think thats bullsh1t when men dont treat women right.. I'm kind of old fashioned though.

Like being selfish in bed for instance, theres no excuse for that unless you really think shes just a wh0re.. if you think shes one then i guess treat her like one but i dont sleep with ppl who i feel are wh0res.
Some people who are "selfish" in bed, just plain suck at sex I think though, or are just lazy haha


ya it was cool tho. i like different types of people.
i even had a 3 way makeout session with two gay guys. one of them is going to be my leprecaun b!tch next time one of those parties comes up. i really didnt mean to give those guys my number tho.
ce la vie.

about being myself, dont worry i am and will continue to be.. putting on a front is really fking dumb.
im just naturally awesome, no need to be somethign else

i dont dig punk rock anyway. the only punk i ever listened to was misfits and slayer had a punk cover disc (undisputed attitude) that had some killer punk covers on it like minor threat ect

i like euro metal and industrial. basically euro rock on a whole. lately ive been listening to HIM (his infernal majesty) and billy talent


last night was wierd.. we've slept together twice and i helped her dress up in tape.. but when we got home she was all modest about taking her clothes off in front of me.

the night turned out well but unfornately this girl has major drama.. and i think some major issues to work thru. i know there were two guys there that she was involved with in the past.. which is fine, but i guess when i was off talking to people they started getting into it (her and this guy) and she smacked him twice and he started grabbing her arms and stuff..

she smacked him cuz he smacked her on the a$$.. so he had it coming.
im a fairly laid back person, but i have a violent past and have no problem hitting anyone. i dont like it when guys do unwelcome things to women like that.
seriously smacking her a$$ and getting physical with her? i dont think so man.

im all about freedom and all that, but when a girl doesnt want something.. you respect that. when he got physical with her she came and got me to go and leave.

shes a tough girl and can take her of herself.. no doubt.. but certain things just get to me?

after that we came to my place first and she was so filled with issues she was starting to cry.. i just comforted her and let her know that if theres still feelings or something is going on i can deal with it.

anyway what a bunch of drama. i am anti-drama myself so its repulsive, but shes so attractive, fun, a good person and seems to really appreciate who i am without me having to 'be someone else'. that, of course, is appreciated

im pretty cool with most stuff, and can deal with some drama/issues (because ALL women have them, so its best just to piledrive thru it all until its gone if you meet someone).. and i hate being the 'macho' guy, in fact i wont do it unless its truley warranted and appropriate because ive seen enough beer muscles in the bars that im a tad against the tough drinking guy thing.
Its not even worth the time, last time some douchebag wanted to fight me for no reason and im just like hey can i buy you a drink? it worked and saved me a night in jail for killing him

but ya, the party rocked and they seemed like good people.. no coke or X out in the open which I appreciate.

 

[imported_Rampage]

Originally posted by: Pabster
Why is this turning in to a debate over abortion?

Cuz its my thread?

Ferocious made a comment to me about it and I responded with my POV. It doesnt bother me, people can talk in my thread about slapping coke sluts with plastic dildos for all i care.
abortion is just a heated, highly opinionated topic that is worth discussing as its a life and death issue.

but i dont plan on continuing to reply to abortion comments myself.

 

[imported_Rampage]

Originally posted by: IdaGno
"As I grow older, I get more liberal"

Good on you & welcome to the club! Flexibility of mind is a very good thing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/daily/may98/goldwater072894.htm

On Hillary Clinton, who was an ardent Goldwater supporter in 1964: "If he'd let his wife run business, I think he'd be better off. ... I just like the way she acts. I've never met her, but I sent her a bag of chili, and she invited me to come to the White House some night and said she'd cook chili for me. Someday, maybe."

I read that entire article.
I pretty much agree with everything goldwater said :thumbsup:
(tho i dont percieve his new ideology as being far left, by any means) its pretty much becoming the mainstream, its just common sense.

the only thing i was like 'hah' too was that he said 'let clinton do his job!'
i'd agree.. but being the brutally fair, and intellectually honest person that i am.. lets extend the same courtesy to bush eh?
i hope goldwater is being intellectually honest and extending the same offer of courtesy to our current president as well.
if the geezer is still kicking.
edit- oops looks like he passed away in 98.