As Crime Mounts, Mexicans Turn to Vigilante Justice

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
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The conviction rate in the thousands of murders and kidnappings afflicting the nation every year is estimated to be as low as 5%...recent months, at least three new clandestine groups have promised to hunt down and murder criminals to help restore order...It is too early to say whether these self-proclaimed avengers will become a significant force in Mexico's battle with crime

This is great. Unlike the US, Mexico is a semi-lawless sh*thole, where the authorities have proven themselves times and time again incapable of giving the general populous a basic sense of security. Vigilantes are reckless and the potential exists for issues, obviously, but I'd cheer these groups on, too.
 

Generator

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
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Yeah why not take a shot at righteousness. But I really don't see much coming from these groups. If your cops are crooks. Politicians, governors, etc... Then how bad is the citizen? Everyone will sell out when given the opportunity. But until the paw gets greased, their might me a mere moment of glory for that shit country.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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Roving packs of murderers should restore order to these cities post haste!!

I can't possibly see how this would horribly backfire if they actually follow through.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,644
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Wait until the violence spills over along with the populace. Not that it already hasn?t, but until it?s equally bad on this side of the ?border? then there?s always room for continued denigration.
 

smack Down

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2005
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Chance are that the vigilantes are just rival gangs trying to put a nicer face on their murders.
 

ZzZGuy

Golden Member
Nov 15, 2006
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End result will probably be a rash of killings of "murderers" followed by a backlash from the drug organizations (they have a small army) which will kill a good number of these people and their families until the idea dies or they back off. Might not even have time to become corrupt, though if they operate while the army/cops are launching a offensive they might avoid such a backlash and do what their legal system can't, THEN it'll become corrupt.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
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There have been very successful Vigilante, ironically a Spanish word, movements .... Like in San Francisco in Gold Rush days who saved city - and some pretty nasty racist ones like in the deep south. Hard to tell how this will go but something needs to happen people are at mercy of murderers and kidnappers day in and day out in much of Mexico.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
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Aug 23, 2003
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Vigilantes are good for taking care of small timers, but they are way out of their league taking on the drug cartels...vastly out-spent and out-gunned.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
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Originally posted by: Skoorb
Link

The conviction rate in the thousands of murders and kidnappings afflicting the nation every year is estimated to be as low as 5%...recent months, at least three new clandestine groups have promised to hunt down and murder criminals to help restore order...It is too early to say whether these self-proclaimed avengers will become a significant force in Mexico's battle with crime

This is great. Unlike the US, Mexico is a semi-lawless sh*thole, where the authorities have proven themselves times and time again incapable of giving the general populous a basic sense of security. Vigilantes are reckless and the potential exists for issues, obviously, but I'd cheer these groups on, too.

Lets fix a broken system with something that has potential to be even worse, what a great idea skoorb
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,674
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Originally posted by: piasabird
We should just close the southern border and line up our military along the border.

I don't want my tax dollars to be spent as welfare for your lily-livered psychosis. Buck up or shoot yourself and put yourself out of misery. You cowardly tax wasting conservatives make me sick. I pay enough taxes to support people with real problems to have to spend money sending the army to get the bogeymen under your bed.
 

eternalone

Golden Member
Sep 10, 2008
1,500
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The problem is not the Drug Lords in Mexico, its the Average white american that consumes these drugs, especially in the midwest, housewives on Meth Ect. If people didnt consume drugs here in the united states they would have no power, so please stop trying to scape goat this problem on the good Mexican people. America is the problem not the other way around, if people here didnt have such an appetite for these drugs this would stop being a problem.
 

Drift3r

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Jun 3, 2003
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I am not going to argue that bordering a nation that consumes the vast majority of drugs in the world is not fueling these drug cartels who are basically running wild. In many cases these cartels have better weapons then the cops and as of late have taken to manipulating "political activist groups" to apply political pressure on the Mexican government. The fact remains though that many Mexican officials, police officers and even army personal are in league with these drug cartels. Mexico's border cities are descending into anarchy due to the inept nature of their government. Now it seems the average working class guy in Mexico is taking action into their own hands to deal with flood of murders occurring in their cities. No doubt that eventually you will see US troops on the border and maybe hear about a few covert predator drone strikes done against drug cartel members if Mexico further degrades into chaos. Basically what is happening to Mexico is the same effect that was seen to of happened to Colombia in the 80's-90's.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
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Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Link

The conviction rate in the thousands of murders and kidnappings afflicting the nation every year is estimated to be as low as 5%...recent months, at least three new clandestine groups have promised to hunt down and murder criminals to help restore order...It is too early to say whether these self-proclaimed avengers will become a significant force in Mexico's battle with crime

This is great. Unlike the US, Mexico is a semi-lawless sh*thole, where the authorities have proven themselves times and time again incapable of giving the general populous a basic sense of security. Vigilantes are reckless and the potential exists for issues, obviously, but I'd cheer these groups on, too.

Lets fix a broken system with something that has potential to be even worse, what a great idea skoorb
Key word being potential.

 

Socio

Golden Member
May 19, 2002
1,732
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Originally posted by: Skoorb
Link

The conviction rate in the thousands of murders and kidnappings afflicting the nation every year is estimated to be as low as 5%...recent months, at least three new clandestine groups have promised to hunt down and murder criminals to help restore order...It is too early to say whether these self-proclaimed avengers will become a significant force in Mexico's battle with crime

This is great. Unlike the US, Mexico is a semi-lawless sh*thole, where the authorities have proven themselves times and time again incapable of giving the general populous a basic sense of security. Vigilantes are reckless and the potential exists for issues, obviously, but I'd cheer these groups on, too.

Can't blame them what non-corrupt police exist there are hunted down and killed or running scared;

Death threats force Juarez police chief to resign, mayor says

JUAREZ, Mexico (CNN) -- The mayor of Juarez announced Friday that the city's police chief is stepping down after receiving death threats from local drug cartels.

Police Chief Robert Orduna's resignation also came in response to the deaths of other police, Mayor Jose Reyes Ferriz told reporters.

"The police chief has resigned, saying he did not want to be responsible for any more police dying," Reyes said.

"They started killing police officers when they were going home or getting into police cars," he said.

The police director of operations was gunned down on Tuesday in his car. Another police officer and a prison guard were found dead Friday morning as part of a campaign of intimidation against government forces blamed on the cartels.

Last year, more than 100 police were killed in Juarez in attacks blamed on organized crime.

They are so scared they are useless;

I talked to someone that went over there the other day to visit relatives, and he said he was driving behind a police car when up ahead two trucks pulled out across the road to block it. He said the police car immediately made a u-turn and fled away at high speed and so did he! He said that was his sign to just go back across to the US and stay there.
 

Drift3r

Guest
Jun 3, 2003
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There also seems to be a big problem of guns from the US being smuggled into Mexico which is also aiding these cartels. Apparently these drug cartels are buying up big bore high powered sniper rifles, assault rifles and hand guns in bulk from gun dealers in the US who don't care who they sell too at all. This is why when the cops do respond in the border cities they are almost always out gunned and slaughtered.

http://apnews.myway.com//artic...0090127/D95VHUF00.html


Cartels in Mexico's drug war get guns from US

By JACQUES BILLEAUD

PHOENIX (AP) - As police approached a drug cartel's safe house in northwestern Mexico last May, gunmen inside poured on fire with powerful assault rifles and grenades, killing seven officers whose weapons were no match.

Four more lawmen were wounded in the bloodbath and a cache of weapons was seized, including a single AK-47 assault rifle that authorities say was purchased 800 miles away at a Phoenix gun shop and smuggled into Mexico.

The rifle's presence in Mexico underscores two realities in the government's war against drug traffickers: Nearly all the guns the cartels use are smuggled into Mexico from the U.S., and officials say a small number of corrupt American weapons dealers are making the gun running possible.

"It's a war," said Bill Newell, special agent in charge of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Arizona and New Mexico. "It's a war between the drug cartels. And it's a war between the government and the drug cartels. And the weapons of war are the weapons that they are acquiring illegally here in the United States."

Authorities don't know how many firearms are sneaked across the border, but the ATF says more than 7,700 guns sold in America were traced to Mexico last year, up from 3,300 the year before and about 2,100 in 2006. The increase is attributed both to a higher volume going south and a growing interest among Mexican authorities in running recovered weapons through a U.S. gun-tracing database.

Mexican and U.S. officials estimate the cartels get 95 percent of their guns from the United States; others are stolen when cartels overrun Mexican authorities. Cartels recruit "straw buyers" in the United States who make purchases on their behalf. Then people are paid to bring the weapons across the border.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection, whose inspectors scrutinize border-crossers at ports of entry, declined to characterize the frequency of its searches of vehicles driving into Mexico, but conceded that not all traffic leaving America is searched.

Inspections of vehicles coming into the United States are considered a bigger priority, because they are aimed at stopping weapons, terrorists and other dangerous elements from coming into the country. Periodic searches of outgoing traffic are done as spot checks and in response to tips of upcoming attempts to smuggle guns or cash.

"We just don't have the manpower to do 100 percent inspections of outgoing traffic," said agency spokesman Jason Ciliberti.

Federal agents say the small number of dealers who knowingly sell guns to smuggling rings have the potential to inflict a lot of damage. As evidence, they cite the Arizona gun dealer accused of selling the AK-47 recovered at the May 27 shootout in Culiacan involving the powerful Sinaloa cartel.

George Iknadosian, owner of X-Caliber Guns in Phoenix, is accused of selling guns to two groups of straw buyers when he knew the weapons were going to be smuggled into Mexico. He also was targeted in stings in which he allegedly sold guns to undercover officers posing as straw buyers.

Iknadosian is set for trial Feb. 3 on fraud and other charges. His lawyer, Thomas M. Baker of Phoenix, didn't return calls seeking comment.

Investigators believe 600 guns sold by Iknadosian ended up in Mexico, most headed to the violent Pacific Coast state of Sinaloa.

Authorities say several have surfaced. They include:

- An AK-47 and .38-caliber Super pistol with diamond-encrusted grips found after the Nov. 2 killing of the police chief of the northern state of Sonora as he walked into a hotel about two miles south of the Arizona border.

- A .38-caliber Super pistol seized a year ago when Mexican special forces captured a top Sinaloa cartel lieutenant, Alfredo Beltran Leyva, and three members of his security team in Culiacan.

- Three assault rifles recovered after patrolling federal police officers were fired upon and responded by killing four gunmen from the Beltran Leyva drug gang on July 2 at a house in Culiacan.

The overwhelming majority of guns recovered in Mexico come from America's four southern border states, with Texas first, followed by California, Arizona and New Mexico, according to the ATF. Many of the rest come from other Western states (Washington, Nevada, Colorado and Oklahoma), the South (Georgia, Florida and Louisiana) and the Midwest (Illinois, Ohio and Indiana).

Gun smuggling corridors are usually dictated by proximity to the nearest and easiest sources of weapons.

Drug smugglers seek out guns in America because gun laws in Mexico are more restrictive than in the United States. Mexicans must get approval for a gun purchase from the Mexican defense department and are limited to guns with a caliber no higher than the standard .38-caliber. Larger calibers are considered military weapons and are off-limits to civilians.

Gun traffickers break caches into small loads to lower the risk of losing them all in a bust. Some guns are walked into Mexico, but most are driven through ports of entry, stuffed inside spare ties, fastened to undercarriages with zip ties, kept in hidden compartments, or bubble-wrapped and tucked in vehicle panels.

Investigators say smugglers sometimes wait until inspectors on both sides are busy with peak border traffic to drive across.

Prosecutors allege Iknadosian offered smuggling advice to a confidential informant during a police sting at his shop in Phoenix, telling the informant to break up purchases. "If you got pulled over two is no biggie," Iknadosian is quoted as saying in a search-warrant affidavit. "Four is a question. Fifteen is what are you doing. So if you got two, hey me and a buddy are going to go out shooting."

Arturo Sarukhan, the Mexican ambassador to the United States, says his country wants the U.S. government to fully enforce gun exportation laws, crack down on more straw buys at guns shows and gather more information on which firearms dealers are selling to rings.

For its part, Mexico must put more money and people into searching incoming border traffic, Sarukhan said.

"If Mexico and the United States are going to be successful, we are going to have to tango together," Sarukhan said.
 
Jun 27, 2005
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Originally posted by: eskimospy
Roving packs of murderers should restore order to these cities post haste!!

I can't possibly see how this would horribly backfire if they actually follow through.

Maybe they watch a lot of Dexter and follow a code? That way they could control their murderous urges and only kill bad guys.

pew pew pew! :D