As a libertarian, I'm inching closer to voting for Kerry
- Thread starter Phokus
- Start date
Check out Kerry's and Edwards' ratings by taxpayers watchdog groups like Citizens Against Government Waste, the National Taxpayers Union, and the Club for Growth before you cast your vote.
- Nov 20, 1999
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I'm willing to have slightly higher taxes if government spending decreases substantially. The problem is, George Bush has decreased taxes to some degree, but he's also increased government spending exponentially, which gives EVERYONE a higher hidden tax (in the form of inflation) in later years. [not that i endorse high taxes or high government spending, but i'm doing cost/benefit analysis here and seeing who is the greater evil here]
The Libertarians I know would never consider voting for a democrat or a republican candidate under any circumstance.
Anyway, regarding Kerry/Edwards, I'll make it easy for you.
"Every year NTU rates U.S. Representatives and Senators on their actual votes--every vote that significantly affects taxes,spending, debt, and regulatory burdens on consumers and taxpayers."
The NTU gave Kerry and Edwards big, fat "F's".
Senator Kerry's Tax & Fiscal Record
Tax & Fiscal Information for Senator John Edwards
glenn1
Lifer
- Sep 6, 2000
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Since not every race features a Libertarian candidate, most of us party faithful are pragmatic enough to keep track of the Republican and Democrat platforms so we can make a choice in those contests.
And I basically agree with Phokus for most of the same reasons listed. If you put a gun to my head and forced me to choose between only Bush or Kerry and not Badnarik, I'd probably go with Kerry at this point. If you put a gun to my head and forced me to choose Nader, I'd probably take the bullet instead.
What does this prove? Polls show Bush carrying 8% of registered democrats while Kerry only carrying 3% registered Republicans.
Here's something else for you to consider:
Study: Kerry's Fiscal Agenda "Makeover" Won't Improve Budget Picture for Taxpayers
Study: Kerry's Fiscal Agenda "Makeover" Won't Improve Budget Picture for Taxpayers
You are a bit naive if you fall for the "fiscal discipline" John Kerry says he will bring. Hes not going to decrease spending, his proposals would increase spending significantly. He wont come close to having a balanced budget unless he raises taxes on not only the rich, but the middle class as well. Just repealling the the tax cuts for those over $200k will not be enough to cover the costs of his proposals.
I have a serious question for you. When has the govt ever reduced spending?
- Nov 20, 1999
- 22,994
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It doesn't prove anything you mentioned, i'm just countering riprorin's claim that "The Libertarians I know would never consider voting for a democrat or a republican candidate under any circumstance."
Under any circumstances? That's completely retarded. For one thing, if a libertarian sneaks in as either a democrat or republican, they'd get my vote, no brainer (for example, house of representative paul brown who is really a libertarian). On a practical side of things, if one party is clearly an authoritarian compared to the other guy, who may be a much smaller authoritarian , i may vote for the other guy for practical purposes. If both the democratic and republican candidates are basically the same, i'll vote libertarian every time.
From the NTU Website:
Taxpayer Score
The Taxpayer Score measures the strength of support for reducing spending and opposing higher taxes. In general, a higher score is better because it means a member of Congress voted to spend less money.
The Taxpayer Score can range between zero and 100. We do not expect anyone to score a 100, nor has any legislator ever scored a perfect 100 in the multi-year history of the comprehensive NTU scoring system. A high score does not mean that the member of Congress was opposed to all spending or all programs. High-scoring members have indicated that they would vote for many programs if the amount of spending were lower or if the budget were balanced. A member who wants to increase spending on some programs can achieve a high score if he or she votes for offsetting cuts in other programs. A zero score would indicate that the member of Congress approved every spending proposal and opposed every pro-taxpayer reform.
NTU believes a score qualifying for a grade of "A" indicates the member is one of the strongest supporters of responsible tax and spending policies. We are pleased to give these members of Congress our "Taxpayers' Friend Award."
A score qualifying for a grade of "B" represents a "good" voting record on controlling spending and taxes. A "B" grade indicates that the member voted for taxpayers most of the time, but slightly less than those who attained the grade of "A."
A score qualifying for a grade of "C" represents a minimally acceptable voting record on controlling taxes and spending. To qualify for a grade of "C" a member must have a Taxpayer Score of at least 50 percent. While such a score may be "satisfactory," there is clearly room for improvement.
We also issue pluses and minuses for the grades of "B" and "C" in order to better recognize the differences in the voting records of members with these grades.
A score qualifying for a grade of "D" indicates the member has a "poor" voting record on controlling taxes and spending.
A score significantly below average qualifies for a grade of "F." This failing grade places the member into the "Big Spender" category.
Computation
NTU's federal budget experts assigned a weight to each vote ranging from 1 to 100. A low weight was assigned to votes that had relatively little effect on the size of the federal budget, while a high weight was assigned to votes with the most significant effect on federal spending.
Weights were based solely on the relative effect of each vote on the total amount of federal spending. Consideration was given to the political effect of a vote on the future federal spending, even though relatively little spending might be immediately at issue. A vote with average importance should have a weight close to 10.
Scores were computed by dividing the weighted total of votes cast against higher spending (or taxes or for lower spending or taxes), by the weighted total number of spending and tax issues on which the member of Congress voted. Average scores for each state were also computed using the weighted total of votes cast by each state delegation.
In computing these scores, we included only those votes on which the member actually voted for or against a bill, resolution, or amendment. Paired votes, announced positions, and absences were excluded. Because some members were absent frequently (or otherwise failed to vote yes or no), their scores, based on relatively few votes, may not accurately reflect spending attitudes. The members falling into this category are noted.
Link
You go Phokus. you can see what Bush has done, and you can bet it won't get better under his continued leadership. Kerry and the Dems are a vote for change. Fiscal responsibility was only lip service and lies under Bush. Be sure and listen to Kerry's speach at the convention. You will then have no problem making your choice. This is the time for change,and the only viable candidates are Dems in this race for 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. I too favor much of the libertarian platform, but I must face reality. Kerry will get my vote at his election,at this level. On local or state issures, if a libertarian provides the right answers and is electable, I'm there.
Vote Kerry/Edwards and lets make the change Bush promised, HONOR to the White House. Send Bush to Iraq to look for WMD's. That will keep him busy for a while.:thumbsup:
Vote Kerry/Edwards and lets make the change Bush promised, HONOR to the White House. Send Bush to Iraq to look for WMD's. That will keep him busy for a while.:thumbsup:
Heh, voting for a third party is a throw away vote. This isnt opinion, this is fact. Kerry (last time I checked) has a roughly a 4% lead over Bush. Now, throw third parties into that mix......
So in other words, you'll never vote for a libertarian.
For the Libertarians I know, their views are built around a personal philosophy that guides their lives. I question how many here that say that they are "Libertarians" truly are.
TuxDave
Lifer
- Oct 8, 2002
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And even if all senators are measured using the same stick, it's not necessarily 'fair' either. It's like saying we'll measure how 'ethical' a senator is by seeing how many times he voted for 'gay rights'. Republicans would dominate the scoreboard and make Republicans look more ethical.
It means that the average republican is a stronger supporter of responsible tax and spending policies than the average democrat.
Here's how the NTU does the computation:
NTU's federal budget experts assigned a weight to each vote ranging from 1 to 100. A low weight was assigned to votes that had relatively little effect on the size of the federal budget, while a high weight was assigned to votes with the most significant effect on federal spending.
Weights were based solely on the relative effect of each vote on the total amount of federal spending. Consideration was given to the political effect of a vote on the future federal spending, even though relatively little spending might be immediately at issue. A vote with average importance should have a weight close to 10.
Scores were computed by dividing the weighted total of votes cast against higher spending (or taxes or for lower spending or taxes), by the weighted total number of spending and tax issues on which the member of Congress voted. Average scores for each state were also computed using the weighted total of votes cast by each state delegation.
In computing these scores, we included only those votes on which the member actually voted for or against a bill, resolution, or amendment. Paired votes, announced positions, and absences were excluded. Because some members were absent frequently (or otherwise failed to vote yes or no), their scores, based on relatively few votes, may not accurately reflect spending attitudes. The members falling into this category are noted.
- Nov 20, 1999
- 22,994
- 779
- 126
I don't know who you're responding to, but IMHO, the libertarian party should focus on local and state elections and winnable house of rep. elections before going onto bigger things. Putting too much energy/resources into the presidential ticket is a waste. I'm not the only libertarian to feel this way, btw. (however, i'd still vote for a libertarian presidential candidate under most conditions and i definetely want the LP to field a libertarian presidential candidate every election).
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