article: programming jobs in the US at risk
- Thread starter khlee
- Start date
does the article say something like "US Companies are hiring overseas due to lack of programmers in the US who can make a working link"?
I hear there is bill that will ban H1 visas (I don't think it will ever pass)but frankly I doubt anybody can convince the executives to change their ways. Oh well, what you gonna do, sh!t happens.
Wasn't there an article a month ago about india worried that tech support jobs exported to them were being exported to russia because its cheaper???
<---- Glad im not in software.
<---- Glad im not in software.
My only issue is that SO many grad students from other countries come here and get a free education. Then they never contribute anything to the US besides research they did while in school. They then go home and work there. US companies would not be exporting nearly as many jobs if we didn't education the world for the sake of diversity. I am all for letting citizens come here and get an education IF they are willing to work in the US for a few years.
None of my clients can, or would, outsource the work I do to someone from another country, and my business is only increasing. Color me *NOT* worried.... at all.
This has been going on for a while, Yahoo just noticed this?
I am beginning to think that Yahoo accepts money to place news items on its front page. I bet there is a lobby group which paid Yahoo to get wider exposure for its agenda.
I am beginning to think that Yahoo accepts money to place news items on its front page. I bet there is a lobby group which paid Yahoo to get wider exposure for its agenda.
So you want them to pay to do research? Usually grad students get a teaching or research assistantship so that they don't have to pay. Most of them do want to stay in the U.S. though from what I hear
Lot of them would love to stay here and contribute but its not exactly easy to find a job in this economy.
My comments were aimed back when I was in school. I talked with MANY MANY indian grad students. They were very grateful that they could get an education here. They also told me that they had no intention of staying in the US. They could go back to indian to live a lot cheaper and rake in good money.
This was back in 1999-2000. The economy was good when it didn't matter as much.
Now with the economy down why are we still bringing in so many foreign students. Why not just let me US citizens in grad school? If the economy is so bad why educate the whole world? Why have foreign students use our education system when they are just going to return back to their country when they are finished?
They put nothing back into the system this way. Yes they teach(if they can pass the english tests). If they can't pass the english tests, a lot of professors just use grant money to pay for their stipend. Yes it is the professors choice but my question is why? We have plenty of people here that would like to continue their education. Of course these people won't contribute to the diversity of the university.
EDIT: I am willing to admit that my sampling is somewhat small. It is people that were Comp Sci grad students at Clemson University. My fiancee has reported the same type situation at NC State with Chemistry grad students.
This was back in 1999-2000. The economy was good when it didn't matter as much.
Now with the economy down why are we still bringing in so many foreign students. Why not just let me US citizens in grad school? If the economy is so bad why educate the whole world? Why have foreign students use our education system when they are just going to return back to their country when they are finished?
They put nothing back into the system this way. Yes they teach(if they can pass the english tests). If they can't pass the english tests, a lot of professors just use grant money to pay for their stipend. Yes it is the professors choice but my question is why? We have plenty of people here that would like to continue their education. Of course these people won't contribute to the diversity of the university.
EDIT: I am willing to admit that my sampling is somewhat small. It is people that were Comp Sci grad students at Clemson University. My fiancee has reported the same type situation at NC State with Chemistry grad students.
I thought I'd add more to this discussion...
Many of the types of programmers they are outsourcing are the corporate-monkey types who do nothing but hack out code all day in a cubicle. Programmers like these are easily replaced. Programmers need to learn how to market themselves; how to provide a *business* value as opposed to an entirely technical one. If you are working directly with clients, working with their business, etc., then you are way ahead of the game and have little to worry about with respect to outsourced programming.
Many of the types of programmers they are outsourcing are the corporate-monkey types who do nothing but hack out code all day in a cubicle. Programmers like these are easily replaced. Programmers need to learn how to market themselves; how to provide a *business* value as opposed to an entirely technical one. If you are working directly with clients, working with their business, etc., then you are way ahead of the game and have little to worry about with respect to outsourced programming.
My sampling is also small, but the experience is opposite of yours, including the Indian grad students
Some of them are even just getting their phds because they want to stay in the US, but can't get a job right now. Are you sure that they want to go back to their country and "rake in the money"? From what the Indian and Chinese grad students say, they can barely earn any money working as an engineer in their home countries.
The outsourcing will catch up to these companies. We work with a third party company that has ALL their development outsourced to India. You get what you pay for. Their product is cheap and it shows. They have ridiculous bugs that take forever to get fixed, no QA processes, and everytime we have a big problem, we have to deal with a 24 hour turn around time because of the time zone differences.
Its true that pure programming work is quickly becoming a blue-collar job. Being a cube monkey just won't cut it in 2 years or so. It will have about the same prestige as help desk/IT support. You'll have to have something the guys in India don't to survive in this world.
Its true that pure programming work is quickly becoming a blue-collar job. Being a cube monkey just won't cut it in 2 years or so. It will have about the same prestige as help desk/IT support. You'll have to have something the guys in India don't to survive in this world.
This is not the fault of Indian programmers, it is the fault of setting up an outsourcing contract with no checks on quality control.
Indian programmers can be every bit as good as American programmers. (Not that the quality of most code written here is anything to celebrate.)
The fact of the matter is that for one-fifth the cost of a U.S. worker, and Indian programmer can indeed do the same job. Upper management would be foolish not to carefully consider offshore programmers.
Vonkhan
Diamond Member
- Feb 27, 2003
- 8,198
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prolly becuz universities need foreign students to work slave jobs at minimum wage. most foreign students also beat the living crap outta american ones based in GPAs and make the university look good. in my experience, most foreign students just work a lot harder.
how many american undergrad student do u know who aim for a master's degree while they're still a freshman? most foreign students do.
how many american undergrad student do u know who aim for a master's degree while they're still a freshman? most foreign students do.
That's exactly what I was going to say too. Most foreign students I have known had a plan. Undergrad, followed by grad and then either a job or more studies. When I was a freshman, I knew a couple of freshman foreign students, and they would ask me in amazement as to why the universities here try so hard to recruit grad students. They didn't know that most American students don't have any plans to go to grad school earlier on. If no one is going to apply to grad school, grad school's have no choice but to accept foreign students.
More or less what I tell my friends, but most of them either don't listen, don't care about their future, or don't want to face reality.
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