Army Wants Howitzers Back From Ski Areas

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
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I found this interesting, sorta funny. Basically they rented out top of the line artillery to ski resorts to shoot at possible avalance areas, but now they need them back. I'm not sure whats funnier, the fact that the army rented out top of the line artillery to ski resorts when they could have rented out old ones, or the fact that we don't have money to buy more artillery so we're scrounging around getting them where we can.



The U.S. military is demanding the return of five howitzers that two Sierra Nevada ski resorts use to prevent avalanches, saying it needs the guns for the fighting in Iraq (news - web sites) and Afghanistan (news - web sites).

Alpine Meadows and Mammoth Mountain received the artillery pieces on loan from the Army and began using them last year to fire rounds into mountainsides and knock snow loose.

But the ski resorts received word earlier this month that the Army's Tank Automotive and Armaments Command at the Rock Island Arsenal in Illinois needs the howitzers back immediately.

"I need to have them back in the troops' hands within 60 to 90 days," said Don Bowen, the Army command's team leader in charge of the howitzers. "It's a very short timeframe to get them serviceable and back into the theater in southwest Asia. Afghanistan-Iraq is the immediate concern."

The ski resorts said they will comply.

"Given it's a war effort, their needs are greater than ours," said Larry Heywood, Alpine Meadows director of mountain operations.

Howitzers are short-barreled cannons that can be pulled by a vehicle. They fire three to 10 rounds per minute at a range of 9,600 to 12,330 yards. Replacing one would cost around $1 million, Bowen said Tuesday.

The military lent two to Alpine Meadows and three to Mammoth Mountain.

Alpine Meadows and Mammoth Mountain are the only ski resorts in the nation using the 119-A howitzer, the most modern model available, said Bob Moore, a U.S. Forest Service specialist in Truckee, Calif. Other resorts have older 105 mm howitzers.

Pam Murphy, senior vice president at Mammoth Mountain just east of Yosemite National Park, said the military has provided the ski resort with recoilless rifles and other guns for avalanche control for 30 years. The howitzers are the most effective, Murphy said.

"It was designed to kill people, but it's a very valuable safety tool for us," said Rachael Woods, a spokeswoman at Lake Tahoe's Alpine Meadows, where seven people were killed in an avalanche in 1982.

Resort officials said they spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to transport the guns, reimburse the Army for training and build firing platforms.

But Murphy said she understood the Army's decision: "We're certainly at a different place in the world than when we first got the guns."

The Forest Service said it is working to secure older howitzers for the ski resorts, and the Army's Bowen said he is optimistic that will happen.

link
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
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No...we're not stretched thin at all.

No...Bush and Co. thought this one through.
 

Bulk Beef

Diamond Member
Aug 14, 2001
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What do I have to do to rent a howitzer? An older 105 would be perfectly adequate for my purposes.
 
Aug 14, 2001
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They're both good resorts, too! :)

I remember hearing some blasting sounds, but I didn't know it was howitzers...
 

LeadMagnet

Platinum Member
Mar 26, 2003
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Originally posted by: sward666
What do I have to do to rent a howitzer? An older 105 would be perfectly adequate for my purposes.

Can I borrow it when you're done? I want to go chipmunk hunting.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,878
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Alpine Meadows and Mammoth Mountains
I'm a big fan of the work of both of these young women. Talk about your howitzers!
I'm speechless, can only shake my head and tighten my Tin Foil Hat.
Dave, the way things are going, I'm predicting a huge Pentagon order for military grade aluminum foil head gear, with, of course, a broad spectrum filter that captures and converts all constructive criticism into STEADY, STEADY, STAY THE COURSE, STAAAAAAAY THE COURSE.

So, send in your $2000 to the RNC and start bribing your local congressmen, ASAP, 'cause you know how these Pentagon contract thingys go, your years long lead in tin foil technology will not, in and of itself, be enough.

Oh, and be sure to wildly overcharge, or they'll be suspicious. And don't worry, whatever you bid, Haliburton's will be 10x higher.

(Now, where's my RITALIN?)
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,758
603
126
Originally posted by: AEB
What... the.... hell.

Surely we could afford new ones.

Apparently not. The Army isn't known for whining about its problems, or showing some political agenda in my experience. They seem to try to avoid making excuses more than anything. If they are asking for these back...I'm inclined to believe they need them.
 

mastertech01

Moderator Emeritus Elite Member
Nov 13, 1999
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I can hardly believe there is that much demand for towed artillery pieces.
 

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
8,903
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Originally posted by: mastertech01
I can hardly believe there is that much demand for towed artillery pieces.

maybe because they can be airlifted onto mountains in afghanistan?
 

mastertech01

Moderator Emeritus Elite Member
Nov 13, 1999
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Yes they can, but do you realize how many pieces of artillery the US has? 5 guns would hardly put any kind of strain on the total mission. IMHO
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
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Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: mastertech01
Yes they can, but do you realize how many pieces of artillery the US has? 5 guns would hardly put any kind of strain on the total mission. IMHO
Got to agree.
 

myusername

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2003
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Perhaps it was a convenient excuse to remove them from an area where greedy hands might appropriate them for nefarious purposes.
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
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Originally posted by: mastertech01
Yes they can, but do you realize how many pieces of artillery the US has? 5 guns would hardly put any kind of strain on the total mission. IMHO
Here's about the only other reason I can think of: The M119 shoots the newer munitions about 8 clicks further than the older M102 - 105mm. Because of the policy to "supposedly" minimize damage in civilian areas, I'm thinking that the brass up in the headshed would rather opt for employing this particular piece versus the M198 - 155 mm.

Therefore, what Rock Island may be trying to do is expedite as many M119s to the field as possible. Towed 105s aren't as common as back in the old days.

But who knows? Maybe some armaments clerk up at Rock Island just got a little overanxious.
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
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Originally posted by: maddogchen
I found this interesting, sorta funny. Basically they rented out top of the line artillery to ski resorts to shoot at possible avalance areas, but now they need them back. I'm not sure whats funnier, the fact that the army rented out top of the line artillery to ski resorts when they could have rented out old ones, or the fact that we don't have money to buy more artillery so we're scrounging around getting them where we can.
Heh heh...I don't think I've ever heard anyone refer to the 119 as top of the line :)

As far as adjectives go, I've probably heard "cute" used to describe them more often than top of the line :)
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
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thats badass:) i knew they used explosives carried by ski patrols to get rid of avalanche hazards, did't know they used artilery too:)
 

B00ne

Platinum Member
May 21, 2001
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Originally posted by: burnedout
...The M119 shoots the newer munitions about 8 clicks further than the older M102 - 105mm. ...

Excuse my ignorance but what kind of unit is a click - I would associate the word click with a clicking sound but from the phrasing of your sentences it must be a distance measurment...

so what is it inch, feet, yard, miles, lightyears, parsec?
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
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Originally posted by: B00ne
Originally posted by: burnedout
...The M119 shoots the newer munitions about 8 clicks further than the older M102 - 105mm. ...

Excuse my ignorance but what kind of unit is a click - I would associate the word click with a clicking sound but from the phrasing of your sentences it must be a distance measurment...

so what is it inch, feet, yard, miles, lightyears, parsec?
"click" = kilometer. Sorry.