Army to release official Lynch report today

[BaliBabyDoc]

Washington Times
(select excerpts)

The Army's 15-page report officially will debunk accounts that Pfc. Lynch emptied two revolvers at her attackers and was shot and stabbed before being taken prisoner of war. In fact, she was riding in a Humvee that was struck by a projectile during a frantic attempt to escape the ambush. She suffered "horrific injuries," said Pentagon sources familiar with the report.

Rumors surfaced that Pfc Piestewa, 23, of Tuba City, Ariz., was killed by Iraqis at the scene. But the Pentagon sources said she died later at a Nasiriyah hospital of injuries suffered in the crash. She was the only military woman to die in Operation Iraqi Freedom, Pentagon statistics show.

Pfc. Lynch also was pulled from the wreckage and taken to the same hospital. "Lynch survived principally because of the medical attention she received from the Iraqis," one source said.

Rumors surfaced that Pfc Piestewa, 23, of Tuba City, Ariz., was killed by Iraqis at the scene. But the Pentagon sources said she died later at a Nasiriyah hospital of injuries suffered in the crash. She was the only military woman to die in Operation Iraqi Freedom, Pentagon statistics show.

The nation's fascination with the Palestine, W.Va., resident grew even more intense after The Washington Post reported in a front-page story that she had waged a fierce gunbattle with Iraqi attackers. The Post subsequently retracted that account in an extensive investigative story on the ambush and her hospital stay.

Pentagon sources said the 15-6 report does not find fault with the actions of any 507th member.

Fort Bliss, Texas, where the 507th is based, last week awarded medals for bravery to nine surviving members, including Sgt. Curtis Campbell, who fought off attackers.
"Actually, I was just doing my job," Sgt. Campbell told KFOX-TV in El Paso. "And there were so many individuals who collectively did so many great things. Given the situation that we were in, the training that we received helped us all to survive the situation. And because it was an ambush, the only way through an ambush is to go through and fight your way through, and each soldier did exactly what they were trained to do."

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Pfc. Lynch also was pulled from the wreckage and taken to the same hospital. "Lynch survived principally because of the medical attention she received from the Iraqis," one source said.

Gosh, and we were all led to belive the Iraqi's deserve the pain and punishment they've endured for the past decade

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

What a great propaganda tool she was. I'm not blaming her, she's not to fault, but the way everyone tried to use her and fabricated stories to put a heroic face on this war was pathetic. Ironically, if it wasn't for Iraqi's she would be a) dead and b) never found.

 

[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce
What a great propaganda tool she was. I'm not blaming her, she's not to fault, but the way everyone tried to use her and fabricated stories to put a heroic face on this war was pathetic.

Whilst I agree with you, it's worth pointing out that in all probability another option exists:

Ironically, if it wasn't for Iraqi's she would be a) dead and b) never found.

c) Still riding in her HUMVEE that was fired on by Iraqi soldiers.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[BOBDN]

Originally posted by: Fencer128

Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce
What a great propaganda tool she was. I'm not blaming her, she's not to fault, but the way everyone tried to use her and fabricated stories to put a heroic face on this war was pathetic.

Whilst I agree with you, it's worth pointing out that in all probability another option exists:

Ironically, if it wasn't for Iraqi's she would be a) dead and b) never found.

c) Still riding in her HUMVEE that was fired on by Iraqi soldiers.

Cheers,

Andy

d) her humvee would never have been in Iraq in the first place if Bush and Co. hadn't lied to start the invasion.

P.S. Private Lynch was brought to a US checkpoint by Iraqi doctors - who were turned back.

If you'll all remember the "war" wasn't going very well at the time Private Lynch and her convoy made the wrong turn. In typical fashion the Bush administration seized upon the misfortune of Private Lynch and her companions to spin yet another lie in order to take attention away from their mistakes relying on people like CkG to believe anything they're told.

 

[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: BOBDN

Originally posted by: Fencer128

Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce
What a great propaganda tool she was. I'm not blaming her, she's not to fault, but the way everyone tried to use her and fabricated stories to put a heroic face on this war was pathetic.

Whilst I agree with you, it's worth pointing out that in all probability another option exists:

Ironically, if it wasn't for Iraqi's she would be a) dead and b) never found.

c) Still riding in her HUMVEE that was fired on by Iraqi soldiers.

Cheers,

Andy

d) her humvee would never have been in Iraq in the first place if Bush and Co. hadn't lied to start the invasion.

P.S. Private Lynch was brought to a US checkpoint by Iraqi doctors - who were turned back.

If you'll all remember the "war" wasn't going very well at the time Private Lynch and her convoy made the wrong turn. In typical fashion the Bush administration seized upon the misfortune of Private Lynch and her companions to spin yet another lie in order to take attention away from their mistakes relying on people like CkG to believe anything they're told.

In your rabid determination to point out the obvious - you completly missed the point that I agree that Lynch's rescue was over propagandised.

Yes, she wouldn't have been there if a war hadn't been on - but what we're discussing is the merit of how the rescue was staged, reported and investigated.

Andy

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

Originally posted by: BOBDN

Originally posted by: Fencer128

Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce
What a great propaganda tool she was. I'm not blaming her, she's not to fault, but the way everyone tried to use her and fabricated stories to put a heroic face on this war was pathetic.

Whilst I agree with you, it's worth pointing out that in all probability another option exists:

Ironically, if it wasn't for Iraqi's she would be a) dead and b) never found.

c) Still riding in her HUMVEE that was fired on by Iraqi soldiers.

Cheers,

Andy

d) her humvee would never have been in Iraq in the first place if Bush and Co. hadn't lied to start the invasion.

P.S. Private Lynch was brought to a US checkpoint by Iraqi doctors - who were turned back.

If you'll all remember the "war" wasn't going very well at the time Private Lynch and her convoy made the wrong turn. In typical fashion the Bush administration seized upon the misfortune of Private Lynch and her companions to spin yet another lie in order to take attention away from their mistakes relying on people like CkG to believe anything they're told.

Exactly, we did invade their country, what do we expect them to do, offer us falafals?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: BOBDN

Originally posted by: Fencer128

Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce
What a great propaganda tool she was. I'm not blaming her, she's not to fault, but the way everyone tried to use her and fabricated stories to put a heroic face on this war was pathetic.

Whilst I agree with you, it's worth pointing out that in all probability another option exists:

Ironically, if it wasn't for Iraqi's she would be a) dead and b) never found.

c) Still riding in her HUMVEE that was fired on by Iraqi soldiers.

Cheers,

Andy

d) her humvee would never have been in Iraq in the first place if Bush and Co. hadn't lied to start the invasion.

P.S. Private Lynch was brought to a US checkpoint by Iraqi doctors - who were turned back.

If you'll all remember the "war" wasn't going very well at the time Private Lynch and her convoy made the wrong turn. In typical fashion the Bush administration seized upon the misfortune of Private Lynch and her companions to spin yet another lie in order to take attention away from their mistakes relying on people like CkG to believe anything they're told.

It's good to see that I enter into your thoughts Who ran wild with the Lynch story? Oh yeah, that's right -the media(and it wasn't just FOX ) Oh, and just a quick question - when was the war going "bad"? I seem to remember a certain weekend that a bunch of handwringers were spouting but that hardly resembles going "badly".

Think what you want of me BOBDN but just because I don't scream bloody murder at every little thing doesn't mean that I believe everything I'm told

CkG

 

[Fencer128]

I'm trying to work out what this thread is *really* about.

Is it not completely obvious that:

1 We invade Iraq and start firing

2 They shoot back

3 We capture Iraqi's alive/injured and send them to field hospitals

4 They capture US/UK alive/injured and send them to hosptials

Am I missing something here or is that not just "normal"??? Is there anything to discuss there?

Now, what I thought this actually was about is "Why/how did the government spin/exaggerate the rescue attempt/story"?

That's worth discussing IMHO.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

I agree with you Andy. I think it was because we needed a hero wo we just invented one. To begin with, there is nothing heroic with using state of the art machinery to fight people armed with sticks and WWI era rifles, so we needed to show that we can fight "mano a mano", like gladiators, true warriors if we had too, and if a girl did it, even better! Lynch just got caught up in the middle IMO, but hey, atleast she gets a book, a movie and an MTV special.

 

[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce
I agree with you Andy. I think it was because we needed a hero wo we just invented one. To begin with, there is nothing heroic with using state of the art machinery to fight people armed with sticks and WWI era rifles, so we needed to show that we can fight "mano a mano", like gladiators, true warriors if we had too, and if a girl did it, even better! Lynch just got caught up in the middle IMO, but hey, atleast she gets a book, a movie and an MTV special.

MTV special!

Seriously, I think heroism improves morale --> makes the troops feel a little better --> makes the public feel patriotic --> improves ratings/polls/support for action.

That's how I believe a cynic in the government would call it and for that purpose did exploit/spin/allow the myth to plant itself.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Please show me where our Gov't put her on a pedistal. If the Bush Admin did such a thing, it is not a good thing. But from what I remember from the media overload on this story, that those in the Media were the driving force behind the story and the Whitehouse stayed relatively quiet.
This is a question - not a "blind defense" of Bush

CkG

 

[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Please show me where our Gov't put her on a pedistal. If the Bush Admin did such a thing, it is not a good thing. But from what I remember from the media overload on this story, that the Media were the driving force behind the story and the Whitehouse stayed relatively quiet.
This is a question - not a "blind defense" of Bush

CkG

That was my reasoning. By not saying anything much (when obviously they could have made a *slightly* larger effort to publicise the fact that she was fairly well treated, not shot, not stabbed, etc.) they could have "played it fair" with the public's perceptions of Iraq.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Please show me where our Gov't put her on a pedistal. If the Bush Admin did such a thing, it is not a good thing. But from what I remember from the media overload on this story, that those in the Media were the driving force behind the story and the Whitehouse stayed relatively quiet.
This is a question - not a "blind defense" of Bush

CkG

I never said the gov. put her on a pedastal, you are absolutely right, the media had a lot to do with it, but it's kind of uncanny that they happened to have a camera on them during the "rescue" to film the whole thing.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Ah so will you both kindly take back this:

"Now, what I thought this actually was about is "Why/how did the government spin/exaggerate the rescue attempt/story"?"

I'm not saying the Admin didn't sit back with a big smile on their face but that hardly equates to actively spinning/exaggerating the story.

Thanks - that was the only point I was trying to make.

CkG

 

[jahawkin]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Please show me where our Gov't put her on a pedistal. If the Bush Admin did such a thing, it is not a good thing. But from what I remember from the media overload on this story, that those in the Media were the driving force behind the story and the Whitehouse stayed relatively quiet.
This is a question - not a "blind defense" of Bush

CkG

The government provided the WaPo with the bogus story, so ya, the government is in on this story, for example

link

Several of the soldiers were killed in the attack, and Lynch returned fire, according to the account given by U.S. officials.

You can't put all the blame on the media. The government told a bogus story and never corrected it until called upon.

 

[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Ah so will you both kindly take back this:

"Now, what I thought this actually was about is "Why/how did the government spin/exaggerate the rescue attempt/story"?"

I'm not saying the Admin didn't sit back with a big smile on their face but that hardly equates to actively spinning/exaggerating the story.

Thanks - that was the only point I was trying to make.

CkG

Hi - sorry for the delay, been talking with friends (in the real world )

I see your point. But "spin" could (in my opinion) be taken to mean manipulating the media/story. If by filming the rescue attempt - releasing that to the press with erroneous details (shooting, stabbing, etc) and then not trying too hard to correct those details because of the effect it's having on your popularity doesn't constitute "spin" then you're right and I'm wrong - but personally I don't see that clear a distinction.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[tcsenter]

If you'll all remember the "war" wasn't going very well at the time Private Lynch and her convoy made the wrong turn. In typical fashion the Bush administration seized upon the misfortune of Private Lynch and her companions to spin yet another lie in order to take attention away from their mistakes relying on people like CkG to believe anything they're told.

Really? Which Bush Administration official 'seized upon the misfortune of Private Lynch and her companions to spin yet another lie'?

Several of the soldiers were killed in the attack, and Lynch returned fire, according to the account given by U.S. officials.

Anonymous, unnamed, US officials. US officials may mean anyone, including someone who heard the tale after it filtered down through the ranks.

In fact, the only verifiable source of this "propaganda" came from the media, namely the Washington Post, and this guy "Mohammed" who told a pretty interesting story to the Washington Post, who then raced to break the story without bothering to do any independent verification. CBS News also contributed to the misinformation by citing "Iraqis", not US officials, as a source during a report from Iraq about the rescue mission.

It appears the media may have a few more Robert Scheer's and Jayson Blair's and Peter Arnett's to purge from its ranks.

 

[Michael]

Based on memory, the US officials who spoke about it quickly denied the reports that she was fighting to her last breath and killing tons of Iraquis. It was the Post that published the sensationalist stories and I don't remember them having any confirmation from the US on it.

Michael

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

If you'll all remember the "war" wasn't going very well at the time Private Lynch and her convoy made the wrong turn. In typical fashion the Bush administration seized upon the misfortune of Private Lynch and her companions to spin yet another lie in order to take attention away from their mistakes relying on people like CkG to believe anything they're told.

Really? Which Bush Administration official 'seized upon the misfortune of Private Lynch and her companions to spin yet another lie'?

Several of the soldiers were killed in the attack, and Lynch returned fire, according to the account given by U.S. officials.

Anonymous, unnamed, US officials. US officials may mean anyone, including someone who heard the tale after it filtered down through the ranks.

In fact, the only verifiable source of this "propaganda" came from the media, namely the Washington Post, and this guy "Mohammed" who told a pretty interesting story to the Washington Post, who then raced to break the story without bothering to do any independent verification. CBS News also contributed to the misinformation by citing "Iraqis", not US officials, as a source during a report from Iraq about the rescue mission.

It appears the media may have a few more Robert Scheer's and Jayson Blair's and Peter Arnett's to purge from its ranks.

I could add more but tscenter did a great job and it is time for me to head home. Basically you have to do better than that jahawkin. Oh and a quick point about the filming of the rescue - that may be a good question but it certainly doesn't mean the Administration's finger prints were on it

CkG

CkG

 

[jahawkin]

Here's the original WaPo article by steno Sue Schmidt. Note all the refrences to US Officials. Someone or some people at centcom or in the military were pushing this BS. That or Sue Schmidt made all of this up. Seeing as how centcom did nothing to correct the WaPo account at the time, everything points to the government being in on this one.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Let's put it this way; someone had to be holding the camera and not actively involved in the assault. These people would know: 1) relative resistance to entering the hospital and retrieving Lynch (which was essentially nil) and 2) unrelated fire coming from Iraqis in the area but not guarding the hospital. There's little doubt the Bush administration mouthpieces Ari (stateside) and Brigadier Gen? (CentCom) may NO attempt to clarify what happened despite having direct evidence (the full video).

Lynch's rescue is akin to the emergency transport of a MVC (motor vehicle crash) from a podunk community hospital to a Level 1 trauma center. Granted, I imagine an M-16 might expedite transfer orders from slow poke Nazi clerks.

Essentially everyone involved; CentCom, White House, the Press, and most Americans saw exactly what they wanted to see and believe about our presence in Iraq. Despite my bias against this administration's policies I felt somewhat moved by the dramatic rescue as well. Of course, I was making the same mistake as most Americans . . . and the Brits.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: jahawkin
Here's the original WaPo article by steno Sue Schmidt. Note all the refrences to US Officials. Someone or some people at centcom or in the military were pushing this BS. That or Sue Schmidt made all of this up. Seeing as how centcom did nothing to correct the WaPo account at the time, everything points to the government being in on this one.

Here is the story of retraction.

Post editorial on the subject

Seems the Post and others are trying to pin the blame for the misinformation on US military officials according to the article.

After reading as much as I could quickly find in a google search these two were the only 2 that talked about the subject in some detail. However - until the Post can name the official we will never know what the truth was regarding the initial exclusive report. Either it was another journalist trying to stake their claim in the WAR by sensationalizing the story, or a military official leaked info without all the facts, or the conspiracy theory of the Administration serving up the propaganda - or a mixture thereof. We'll never know until we know the source of the story.


CkG

 

[montanafan]

I don't know that it matters much, but I do remember seeing an Army officer telling the story of Lynch shooting at the Iraqis. He was bald, wore glasses, and was standing at a podium at an official news conference in either Kuwait or Qatar. Does anyone else remember seeing that?

Then just a few days later came official word that she didn't remember anything about what happened between the time the vehicle she was riding in was hit by an explosion and the time when she woke up in the Iraqi hospital.

I mean, since Lynch was conscious when she was resuced, it seems to me that the military doctors would have known pretty early on that she had no memory of the events. Why would the military have rushed to tell that story except to possibly boost the morale of the troops or boost the support of the public?

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

I mean, since Lynch was conscious when she was resuced, it seems to me that the military doctors would have known pretty early on that she had no memory of the events. Why would the military have rushed to tell that story except to possibly boost the morale of the troops or boost the support of the public?

I made a similar argument back in the day but I based it on the triage. A good ER doctor would know within 5 minutes (including time for portable xrays) the general extent of Lynch's injuries and likely causes. I can understand witholding information for privacy reasons but once the reports started flying it would have been in her interests (and that of loved ones) for them to know she was essentially in a MVC as an unrestrained passenger. It happens thousands of times in America everyday . . . and the vast majority live to tell about it. The odds aren't nearly as favorable when it comes to close range gun shot wounds (GSW).

The official account is that she doesn't remember what happened. Which is quite common with severe trauma. Unfortunately, the press (and possibly someone with the military) decided to fill in all the details since they had very few real ones.