Makes me glad he is standing up for what he believes in. Also makes me wonder what he means by, "you just don't know how bad it is." I wish our media did a better job of covering this war in all it's details. Tho I understand the risks for doing so and the consequential reasons due to these risks...
Army sergeant refuses 2nd Iraq deployment
- Thread starter gutharius
- Start date
Makes me glad he is standing up for what he believes in. Also makes me wonder what he means by, "you just don't know how bad it is." I wish our media did a better job of covering this war in all it's details. Tho I understand the risks for doing so and the consequential reasons due to these risks...
Steeplerot
Lifer
- Mar 29, 2004
- 13,051
- 6
- 81
I am sure there is a friendly canadian family he could stay with until the bush junta is gone.
Welcome home Sgt. Benderman. You have done your duty.
Hopefully more of these guys realize they are not forced to live through bush's hell and that there are alternatives to
killing and the terror of what bush has put them through.
Welcome home Sgt. Benderman. You have done your duty.
Hopefully more of these guys realize they are not forced to live through bush's hell and that there are alternatives to
killing and the terror of what bush has put them through.
Megatomic
Lifer
- Nov 9, 2000
- 20,127
- 6
- 81
Why in the hell did he enlist in the US Army in the first place then? And if he's a sergeant in the Army, then this most likely isn't his first enlistment. He is fully indoctrinated into what being a soldier is all about. I call bullshit on his new morality and say hello to newfound cowardice.
This message posted by a veteran of the Operation Desert Storm and a non-reenlister after his initial term of enlistment.
Steeplerot
Lifer
- Mar 29, 2004
- 13,051
- 6
- 81
Steeplerot
Lifer
- Mar 29, 2004
- 13,051
- 6
- 81
BACKDOOR DRAFT....The Pentagon is apparently considering a new policy that would effectively turn some Army reservists into full-time active duty soldiers:
Under current policy, a reservist is not to serve on active duty for more than 24 months, although those months can be split among multiple deployments that occur over a period of years.
The change under consideration, the Army official said, would essentially make a reservist eligible for an unlimited number of call-ups but stipulate that no single mobilization would last more than 24 consecutive months.
....But any extension in deployments is sure to prompt grumbling -- or worse -- in an Army Reserve community that numbers more than half a million and has begun showing signs of serious stress. Both the Guard and the Army Reserve have reported significant shortfalls in meeting recruitment targets in the past few months. And earlier this week, an internal memo from the chief of the Army Reserve surfaced warning that his forces are nearing a breaking point.
If this happens, it's for all intents and purposes a draft.
Under current policy, a reservist is not to serve on active duty for more than 24 months, although those months can be split among multiple deployments that occur over a period of years.
The change under consideration, the Army official said, would essentially make a reservist eligible for an unlimited number of call-ups but stipulate that no single mobilization would last more than 24 consecutive months.
....But any extension in deployments is sure to prompt grumbling -- or worse -- in an Army Reserve community that numbers more than half a million and has begun showing signs of serious stress. Both the Guard and the Army Reserve have reported significant shortfalls in meeting recruitment targets in the past few months. And earlier this week, an internal memo from the chief of the Army Reserve surfaced warning that his forces are nearing a breaking point.
If this happens, it's for all intents and purposes a draft.
Megatomic
Lifer
- Nov 9, 2000
- 20,127
- 6
- 81
Among us vets of full time active duty the plight of the reservist these days is often a joke. They join the reserves feeling assured that they'll "do their duty" and get their benefits later on based on how the US DoD has utilized reservists in the past (rarely if ever being called to active duty). If that's this guy's situation then I feel no sympathy for him. Again, he didn't have to re-up if he didn't like the Army (not 100% assured that he did but the majority of first time enlisters in the US Army don't make sergeant).
Edit: I missed the 9 years in the army statement, he definitely re-enlisted. His mistake.
Edit: I missed the 9 years in the army statement, he definitely re-enlisted. His mistake.
You bring up an interesting point. This guy is a sergeant. More than one tour of duty for sure. In the article he states things were really bad over there. Perhaps things are WORSE in Iraq than the media is capable of reporting due to the sheer hostility towards americans and reporters there. If this is the case you and I as americans may not have even a quarter of the full story or picture of what it really is like over there. I wonder if Abu Ghraib is only a small matter when compared to what else is going on there...
Megatomic
Lifer
- Nov 9, 2000
- 20,127
- 6
- 81
I don't remember expressing my views on the war itself. I don't know why you're arguing with me as to whether or not the war is bullshit. My comments were geared towards ridiculing the cowardly sergeant's actions.
I think the merit of the war is an exhausted topic at this point.
I think the merit of the war is an exhausted topic at this point.
Im more concerned about whether I, and more so the american public, is getting the full story on this war and everything that is going on. I have a feeling we are not, I would like to know to what extent.
I have 4 friends in the military over there, 2 air force, 1 army SF, 1 marine.
All 4 say its not nearly as bad as the media depicts, and that most iraquis are happy we are there.
All 4 say its not nearly as bad as the media depicts, and that most iraquis are happy we are there.
I don't think he's a coward. I think he's standing up for what he believes in, taking the consequences like a man.
However, as much as I agree/sympathize with him, being in the military myself facing probable deployment to Iraq, I also agree that there's good reasons for military members not being able to say "oh, gee, I'm a conscientious objector now, see ya later!"
Perhaps because he has no problem defending America from true threats or helping out other countries in times of need instead of fighting in unjust wars based on lies.
He's an idiot, and a joke. He disgraces the rest of us who do as we are obligated to do. He can always try to claim hardship if that is his argument. You don't refuse to do as you signed up to do.
You cannot be a seargent witout being in the Army for at least a couple of years, so he should know the deal. This COULD be his first enlistment, if he is a college grad, or got rapid promotions. Hell, I made E-5 in under four years, and the Reserves can enlist for six years at a time.
If you disagree with policy, write your Senator. If you disagree with the military, become an objector, take you General Discharge (under Less than Honorable Conditions) and go home. There are methods to follow, and they still work. Don't be a fool or a coward and take the hard way out.
Soldiers work, soldiers fight, sometimes soldiers die, eventually they all go home....that what they do.
You cannot be a seargent witout being in the Army for at least a couple of years, so he should know the deal. This COULD be his first enlistment, if he is a college grad, or got rapid promotions. Hell, I made E-5 in under four years, and the Reserves can enlist for six years at a time.
If you disagree with policy, write your Senator. If you disagree with the military, become an objector, take you General Discharge (under Less than Honorable Conditions) and go home. There are methods to follow, and they still work. Don't be a fool or a coward and take the hard way out.
Soldiers work, soldiers fight, sometimes soldiers die, eventually they all go home....that what they do.
Starbuck1975
Lifer
- Jan 6, 2005
- 14,698
- 1,909
- 126
There is no such thing as a backdoor draft. The Army downsized considerably after the Cold War, initiated by Bush Sr. and then continued by the Clinton Administration. The Clinton Administration committed our forces to operations in the Balkans and other parts of the world without increasing the active duty pool such that the Army quickly became overextended. Of course, at the time we did not have any enemies on the radar screen that would require a large standing Army, but our country has yet to learn this lesson in that it is often difficult to predict when war will come knocking at our door.
Many of the logistics and speciality functions that the Army does not require during peacetime was moved to the Reserves. However, during times of war, it becomes necessary to activate these units such that the Army has the resources necessary to conduct and sustain combat operations.
The Army activated numerous Reserve units for the Gulf War, it just happened to be a rather short war...also Reserve units have taken over the majority of operations in Bosnia and Kosovo to free up active duty units such that they can focus on training for their wartime missions. However, because these units were not and have not sustained casualties, most of these soldiers have enjoyed the tax free income and other incentive benefits of being on a deployment.
Anyone who goes into the military does so understanding the implications and potential for their being placed in harms way...that we are utilizing our Reserve pools so extensively illustrates the flaws in maintaining such a substantial amount of military assets in the Reserves. Of course, programs such as Stop Loss and activating Reserve units for active duty is going to place a strain on retention, as most people go into their Army contracts with the assumption that they can get out when their tour is up...and most Reservists assume they will never be deployed...their faults perhaps for not reading the fine print in their contracts, but still not the best way to treat our soldiers.
Of course the alternative is to maintain a large standing volunteer Army during peacetime such that our citizen soldiers or even citizens are not conscripted into active duty...of course it begs the question of who is going to pay for maintaining a large standing Army during peacetime, as our nation has a tradition of downsizing during peacetime and then accelerating to a sizeable combat force during times of war.
The Army does have a system in place for establishing conscientious objector status, but it becomes suspicious and sets a dangerous precedent when soldiers choose to declare themselves as such when faced with a deployment.
As for conditions in Iraq, it really depends on where you are stationed...because I served, I know many people currently serving in Iraq, and correspond with them frequently over email...some of them send me links of rather encouraging news that you won't see in the media (building of roads, infrastructure, schools, waste water treatment plants, etc.) However, others who have seen combat in Falluja and other hot spots paint a different picture. The story is actually fairly optimistic in areas that are not Baathist strongholds, but more dangerous in the Iron Triangle.
Many of the logistics and speciality functions that the Army does not require during peacetime was moved to the Reserves. However, during times of war, it becomes necessary to activate these units such that the Army has the resources necessary to conduct and sustain combat operations.
The Army activated numerous Reserve units for the Gulf War, it just happened to be a rather short war...also Reserve units have taken over the majority of operations in Bosnia and Kosovo to free up active duty units such that they can focus on training for their wartime missions. However, because these units were not and have not sustained casualties, most of these soldiers have enjoyed the tax free income and other incentive benefits of being on a deployment.
Anyone who goes into the military does so understanding the implications and potential for their being placed in harms way...that we are utilizing our Reserve pools so extensively illustrates the flaws in maintaining such a substantial amount of military assets in the Reserves. Of course, programs such as Stop Loss and activating Reserve units for active duty is going to place a strain on retention, as most people go into their Army contracts with the assumption that they can get out when their tour is up...and most Reservists assume they will never be deployed...their faults perhaps for not reading the fine print in their contracts, but still not the best way to treat our soldiers.
Of course the alternative is to maintain a large standing volunteer Army during peacetime such that our citizen soldiers or even citizens are not conscripted into active duty...of course it begs the question of who is going to pay for maintaining a large standing Army during peacetime, as our nation has a tradition of downsizing during peacetime and then accelerating to a sizeable combat force during times of war.
The Army does have a system in place for establishing conscientious objector status, but it becomes suspicious and sets a dangerous precedent when soldiers choose to declare themselves as such when faced with a deployment.
As for conditions in Iraq, it really depends on where you are stationed...because I served, I know many people currently serving in Iraq, and correspond with them frequently over email...some of them send me links of rather encouraging news that you won't see in the media (building of roads, infrastructure, schools, waste water treatment plants, etc.) However, others who have seen combat in Falluja and other hot spots paint a different picture. The story is actually fairly optimistic in areas that are not Baathist strongholds, but more dangerous in the Iron Triangle.
I have mixed emotions about this. I will offer this, I am just glad to see that cases like this are getting reported in the news. By no means will it deter the military from throwing the book at him and everything he has worked for will be destroyed.
People are not aware of what is really going on over in Iraq. The situation in country is not quite what it seems like on the news. Many of our young military do not want to go back, but they are afraid to stand up and fight. Though I think the military is great and has been good to me for the past 20+ years, at times like this it can be very harsh and run over you like a train.
The bad thing about it is, there is no end in sight for leaveing Iraq, the leadership in DC are lost and have no idea what things are like. The military forces are being pushed into deployments without thought or concern. Some of which have already made three or more deployment into Iraq.
What is the answer? I have no idea, I do not think that anyone could come up with the perfect plan to score with.
This is just like a good football game, one teams getting beat badly and the other cannot do no wrong. You decide which team we really are.......
People are not aware of what is really going on over in Iraq. The situation in country is not quite what it seems like on the news. Many of our young military do not want to go back, but they are afraid to stand up and fight. Though I think the military is great and has been good to me for the past 20+ years, at times like this it can be very harsh and run over you like a train.
The bad thing about it is, there is no end in sight for leaveing Iraq, the leadership in DC are lost and have no idea what things are like. The military forces are being pushed into deployments without thought or concern. Some of which have already made three or more deployment into Iraq.
What is the answer? I have no idea, I do not think that anyone could come up with the perfect plan to score with.
This is just like a good football game, one teams getting beat badly and the other cannot do no wrong. You decide which team we really are.......
Starbuck1975
Lifer
- Jan 6, 2005
- 14,698
- 1,909
- 126
While this is all certainly true, the Gulf War did create the misconception that our technological advantage would enable American forces to win quick decisive victories with minimal casualties and be home safe in a matter of months...what is going on in Iraq now is what warfare has always been...long, drawn out, brutal and intense.
Talk to any WW2 or Vietnam vets if you can find any, and their stories are consistent with what we are hearing from Iraq...that we won WW2 does not change the nature of warfare, and many of our troops who fought in Europe and the Pacific witnessed things equivalent in brutality and chaos to what is going on in Iraq today.
Please note that this post is independent of any justification or support for the war in Iraq...simply some comments on the nature of warfare and our society's understanding of it.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
- 59
- 86
My son is now in Iraq, in Fallujah, and claims the media overstates and sensationalizes what's going on over there. Most Iraqis do not hate the US or the soldiers there. Instead the media actively searches for those few fist-shakers and publicizes them instead of the average, everyday Iraqi, most of who are fairly ambivalent about the whole thing. Par for the media course, and their pet kittens back in the states lap up the 'truth-milk' they are served by that same media. Take a big sip, boys.
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