Army orders court martials for soldiers who get pregnant in northern Iraq

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
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Well, I guess if you sign on the dotted line that you knew what you were getting yourself into. But I'm sure not everyone will see it that way...

According to the Nov. 4 general order of Maj. Gen. Anthony Cucolo III, a commander in northern Iraq, the punishment would apply not only to the female soldiers who become pregnant, but also to the male soldiers who impregnate them, even if the couple is married.

Cucolo told ABC News that the policy, believed to be the first of its kind, was necessary to avoid losing valuable troops in his 22,000-member command.

"I need every soldier I've got, especially since we are facing a drawdown of forces during our mission. Anyone who leaves this fight earlier than the expected 12-month deployment creates a burden on their teammates," he said in a statement.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/army-maj-general-makes-pregnancy-punishable-offense-iraq/story?id=9391242
 
Oct 16, 1999
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I'm fine with this in theory, and any "accidents" should be preventable, but this can potentially put folks in an "have an abortion or be court martialed" position which I think is utterly distasteful. Plus, guys already face enough liability when they unzip their pants, do we really need to add potential court martial to the list too?
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
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I'm fine with this in theory, and any "accidents" should be preventable, but this can potentially put folks in an "have an abortion or be court martialed" position which I think is utterly distasteful. Plus, guys already face enough liability when they unzip their pants, do we really need to add potential court martial to the list too?

There is simply no way you can get "accidentally" pregnant.
You can mitigate your risk but there is only one thing that can guarantee you wont get pregnant.
She new the results of her actions but made the CHOICE to have sex anyways and now she has to live with the consequences.
 
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ZzZGuy

Golden Member
Nov 15, 2006
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I'm fine with this in theory, and any "accidents" should be preventable, but this can potentially put folks in an "have an abortion or be court martialed" position which I think is utterly distasteful. Plus, guys already face enough liability when they unzip their pants, do we really need to add potential court martial to the list too?

Just stop and think for a second.

Are there any abortion clinics or medical facilities able to carry out abortions in a combat zone?

It also appears that this does not apply outside of Iraq.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
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Oh well, if there are no abortion clinics around you can always coat-hanger that thing, eh, should be great when a couple of female soldiers die of infection for that reason.

This is clearly a measure intended to increase likelihood of people joining the military.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
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I'm fine with this in theory, and any "accidents" should be preventable, but this can potentially put folks in an "have an abortion or be court martialed" position which I think is utterly distasteful.

Just stop and think for a second.

Are there any abortion clinics or medical facilities able to carry out abortions in a combat zone?

and women cannot possibly induce abortions without abortion clinics?

The very real choice is as Gonad describes it, should a female soldier get pregnant. End of your career, or attempt to abort the fetus. Mabye a few good punches will do, maybe try the coathanger approach, maybe swallow a few dozen birth control pills. These people are stressed enough as it is, I don't think this measure is a good idea.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,109
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Wow there is a lot of crazy stupidity in this thread.

To get a few things out of the way:

'they signed up to fight, not fuck'. - Ridiculous. They didn't join a nunnery, they joined the Army.

'they can just not have sex' - Ridiculous. You are sending people overseas for a year or more at a time. Expecting celibacy for that period of time is nothing more than wishful thinking.

There IS an issue in the military with women becoming pregnant at awfully convenient times in order to avoid deployments, but I hardly think that a court martial is the answer. This policy is dumb, and the general will end up looking like shit.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
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Combat zones are no place for sexual intercourse, period. During my multiple tours, I have seen dozens of women "get to" go home due to mid-tour pregnancies. It's absolutely unacceptable, and it's about damn time the Army does something harsh to curb the practice.

If they can't wait 12-15 months to get their rocks off, maybe they should have picked a different line of work. If they screw up and get knocked up, then they will have to deal with the consequences. If they choose to attempt a back-room abortion, then charge them and anyone involved with the intentional destruction of government property.

Court martial every last one of them. We don't need that shit in our services, period.

EDIT: Eskimospy, weren't you in the Navy? Maybe this bullshit is acceptable on your boats, but the Army IS meant to fight, not fuck.

General Order #1 orders non-married Army personnel to remain celibate in combat zones, and all soldiers to remain sober for the duration of their tour as well. If soldiers choose to have sex anyways, or consume alcohol, then they are, at minimum, disobeying a direct order. UCMJ FTW.
 
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Wheezer

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 1999
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and people get all pissy when you say that women should not be in a combat zone.....this is one reason why.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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No big loss. When I was in only 10% were worth a shit most women join for ever excuses light duty and welfare military provides and are detrimental to mission and moral.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
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court martials for pregnancy even between married couples is a bit over the top and it would not surprise me if this general retires early over this.
 
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cheesehead

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
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Just stop and think for a second.

Are there any abortion clinics or medical facilities able to carry out abortions in a combat zone?

Yes. All you need is a rather cheap and fairly safe drug known as Mifepristone, otherwise called RU486. You get sick for a little while, but the whole procedure should be no problem for a combat medic. Better to have someone in a cot for a week than have to send them home.

I agree with the statement on personal responsibility. If you don't want to have the risk of having an abortion, don't have sex or get your tubes tied. Expecting people to remain celibate is not a real possibility in a combat zone, and we simply can't afford to keep women out of Iraq.
 
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NaughtyGeek

Golden Member
May 3, 2005
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Why not mandatory Norplant or something similar? I understand where the General is coming from but I agree with others take on some of the potential unintended consequences.
 

cheesehead

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
10,079
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Why not mandatory Norplant or something similar? I understand where the General is coming from but I agree with others take on some of the potential unintended consequences.

Norplant has side effects, especially if you smoke. And soldiers like to smoke - it's a good way to kill time while you're waiting to someone to jump out and shoot you. That said, offering it to soldiers cheaply and conveniently (along, perhaps, with some nicotine patches) would be a great idea, though one I can safely say will be shot down instantly by silly christian fundies.

Perhaps they should consider allowing gays in the military.

It would also solve the rather messy issue of all the light-skinned babies that inevitably seem to get left behind by a visiting army....
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
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Norplant has side effects, especially if you smoke. And soldiers like to smoke - it's a good way to kill time while you're waiting to someone to jump out and shoot you. That said, offering it to soldiers cheaply and conveniently (along, perhaps, with some nicotine patches) would be a great idea, though one I can safely say will be shot down instantly by silly christian fundies.



It would also solve the rather messy issue of all the light-skinned babies that inevitably seem to get left behind by a visiting army....

you are in luck it is super cheap in the military because all meds are free.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
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it's a legal and binding order. part of the prohibited behavior criteria they accepted when they became soldiers.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/200...t-pregnancy-calls-female-soldiers-invaluable/

General Defends Move to Prohibit Pregnancy, Calls Female Soldiers 'Invaluable'

The U.S. Army commander in northern Iraq who prohibited pregnancy in his ranks defended his decision Monday, saying his female soldiers are "invaluable" and that he can't afford to lose anyone under his watch at a time when U.S. forces are already drawing down.

Maj. Gen. Anthony Cucolo insisted that those who violate the new rule would not face court martial, even though his new order lists pregnancy under a section of violations punishable by prosecution. So far, the punishments have been in the form of written letters of reprimand.
But he said the order is critical to the goal of keeping his "combat power together."

"I've got a 22,000-man task force and I need every soldier I've got. We are facing a drawdown and anyone that leaves earlier than the expected 12 months creates a burden on their teammates," Cucolo, head of Multi-National Division-North, told Fox News. "My female soldiers are invaluable -- many of them hold high impact jobs. In general, my troops are few in number and I need them all."

Cucolo told Fox News the new rule applies equally to men. "It's not in step with the warrior ethos," he said. "We have to keep an eye on every soldier and so men who break this rule are subject to the same punishments."
Cucolo's 22,000-person task force includes 1,682 women.

Since the rule was implemented Nov. 4, Cucolo said four women have gotten pregnant, leading to reprimands for seven people -- four women and three men. The fourth male was not identified and so was not punished. All of the violators got a written reprimand, but one of the men had that letter entered into his permanent record because he was married.

"That was adultery," Cucolo said.

Soldiers can effectively "take a plea" for violating the no-pregnancy rule, Lt. Col. Nate Banks, an Army spokesman, told Fox News.

If suspected of violating the ban, a soldier will face an Article 15 hearing, which results in non-judicial punishment such as a written letter of reprimand. However under Article 15, soldiers could receive a reduction in rank, forfeiture of pay or confinement to post for a certain time. An Article 15 finding does not eliminate the possibility of promotion in the future.
If a soldier opts out of Article 15 for a court martial, the punishment for a guilty ruling could be more severe, including jail time. Jail time would not be for more than a year and is very unlikely, Banks said.

In either case if a senior officer is involved he or she would likely be asked to resign his or her commission.

Cucolo said he made sure the rule was legal before making the change and that he hasn't gotten any "pushback on an official level" since implementing it.

Army spokesman Lt. Col. Christopher Garver made clear that Cucolo's order is not "Army policy."

"These policies are exclusive to General Cucolo's command in northern Iraq," he said.

The commander carefully explained the rationale behind the policy in a written statement.

"Anyone who leaves this fight early because they made a personal choice that changed their medical status -- or contributes to doing that to another -- is not in keeping with a key element of our ethos, 'I will always place the mission first,' or three of our seven core values: loyalty, duty and selfless service. And I believe there should be negative consequences for making that personal choice," Cucolo wrote.

"I do not expect those who have never served in the military to completely understand what I have tried to explain above," he concluded. "As intensely personal as this topic might be, leaving those who depend on you shorthanded in a combat zone gets to be personal for those left, too. This addition to a standing general order is just a small part of our overall effort to motivate thoughtful and responsible behavior among our soldiers."
I like this General.